Chairperson, the hon Ellis must be careful. I am the Acting Minister of Health this week. By the time the Minister comes back I will have implemented the National Health Insurance, completely! [Laughter.]
Mr Chairman, I can only but express my deep concern on behalf of the nation. [Laughter.]
Chairperson, the Department of Health will publish the draft national health insurance policy framework for public comment.
The department has already answered this question in the form of a written response. It said that after public engagement, the framework document will be finalised. Thereafter, the costing of the final framework document will be done. Although there are initiatives that are already underway regarding costing, we do not believe it is appropriate to embark on a massive costing exercise. This is because the issue of costing in itself will have to be part of the consultative process. The principle is that we want an affordable system. So, part of the consultation also involves determining what is affordable. Thank you, Chair.
Chair, I would like to thank the Minister of Health for notifying me that he would not be here today. If the Minister of Higher Education could convey my gratitude to him, I would appreciate it.
The National Health Institute, NHI, is going to fundamentally change health care in South Africa. As such, we would have thought that some form of costing model would have been conducted already to give the public and the government an idea of what this is going to cost.
While we understand that there will be a public participation process, despite the Minister's threats of going to war over anyone who may oppose the NHI, the DA will be participating in that process.
We do concur with what the Minister of Higher Education said, that certain aspects of the NHI may change during this process. But one aspect that will not change and will remain fixed is that of the basic package of universal care within NHI. My question to the hon Minister is: If no costing of the basic package of universal care has been conducted, how does the government know that the NHI is affordable and sustainable? Thank you very much.
Chairperson, if hon Waters wants me to pass on his message to the general- secretary of the SACP about the issue of war on the NHI, I will be happy to do that. I am here as the Minister of Health. [Laughter.]
I think that the DA needs to play by the rules. What you are trying to do, in essence, is to say that we can't commit to a national health insurance scheme unless we have costed it. But how does one do a full-blown costing without having had consultations with South Africa? That would be a waste of energy and time.
Through the initial work that the department has done, we are convinced that a national health insurance system is important. We have done and are busy doing comparative studies, not least with the United States of America, by the way, and other countries like Ghana that have actually implemented a national health insurance system. We are convinced that given where we are, we will actually be able to afford it.
Still on the issue of affordability, even the range of services in the basket that will be covered by the NHI are some of the things we still have to consult about.
Therefore, it is very unfair of the DA to ask for something like this when we know that they are working with some private providers to do some kind of costing so that they can compare figures. You can bring your own costing as well. We will be happy to look at your costing when we begin to discuss it openly. Thank you very much, Chair. [Applause.].
Sihlalo, ngitsandza kubuta Indvuna kutsi kutawutsatsa sikhatsi lesingakanani ngoba phela bantfu bayahlupheka. Asikwati kulindza kutsi Luhlelo Lwemshwalense Wetemphilo WLwavelonkhe lume lungasebenti, kumele lusebente. Lesifuna kukwati kutsi lutawucala nini kusebenta, ngoba sive sakitsi siyafa, yenabakitsi? (Translation of Siswati paragraph follows.)
[Mr G S RADEBE: Chairperson, I would like to ask the Minister as to how long it is going to take, because people are suffering. We cannot wait and let the National Health Insurance programme stop functioning, it must be implemented. What we would like to know is, when will it be implemented because our nation is dying, good people?]
UNGQONGQOSHE WEMFUNDO EPHAKEME KANYE NOKUQEQESHA: (omele UNGQONGQOSHE WEZEMPILO): Ngiyavuma Baba, lunga elihloniphekile. Siyijahe kakhulu nathi lento. Kusenomsebenzi-ke umnyango osawenza ukuthi uma uqeda ukuphela lowo msebenzi sesikwazi-ke ukuthi siye kubantu siyothi-ke nakhu esifuna ukukwenza. Siyobe sesikuletha ngokushesha. Ngicabanga ukuthi kungekudala uNgqongqoshe uzomemezela ukuthi cishe iyobe isilunge nini lento, kodwa nje siyazama ukuthi siphuthumise impela ngoba abantu bakithi cha bayimele lento ngisho nalabo impela i-DA ethi iyabakhulumela nabo basenkingeni ngoba bancinzwa ama Medical Aid manje bayayidinga le NHI, bayijahile. Asazi-ke ukuthi laba abangaphesheya bakhulumela obani noma bakhulumela laba abadla izambane lika pondo. Siyabonga. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[The MINISTER FOR HIGHER EDUCATION: (on behalf of the Minister of Health): I concur with you, hon member. We also want to start this programme as soon as possible. There is something that the department is working on, and once that is complete we will then tell the people what we are going to do. I think the Minister will announce shortly when this might take place, but we are trying to speed up the process because our people are eagerly awaiting it. Even those that the DA claims to be representing are also in trouble because they are feeling the pinch with regard to medical aid, they also need the NHI. We are not sure who the ones over there are representing; we wonder if they are representing the elite. Thank you. [Applause.]]
Hon Minister, I know that there is nothing much done about costing and things like that. But we would like to know whether it is true that the NHI is not only for the poor, but it is also for a large majority of middle class people. Many of these middle class people are employed, but they are uninsured at the present moment due to the unaffordability of medical aids. These medical aids are experiencing a crisis in cost, which sees costs escalating beyond affordability. This has the effect of excluding the majority of the people from a health system.
Chair, that is the issue to which I referred earlier. The need for a national health insurance system for the country is not only for the poor. It is for the working and the middle classes, especially because our medical aid schemes are actually heading for a crisis. People on medical aid schemes are paying more but are progressively receiving less for their money. That is why we are quite convinced that the overwhelming majority of our people want this national health insurance system as soon as yesterday. Those who are opposed to it without even having engaged with it to see what we are coming up with, may actually only be speaking for a very tiny minority who, I suspect, do not have the NHI in their own interest. Thank you, Chair.
Chairperson, I am covered by the answer already given by the Minister. Thank you.
Hon Minister, as you have mentioned the private health sector, how much interaction is taking place between the Minister and the private health sector with regard to the creation of a national health insurance? Do we have particular successful models that we are considering, and which countries are we considering to provide these examples? Thank you.
Chairperson, the Minister, as the Minister of Health, inevitably interacts with the private sector. But, on this matter, the department is working towards producing a document through which we intend engaging all stakeholders, including not only the private sector, but the poor as well. One of the countries with the best national health insurance system in the world is the People's Socialist Republic of Cuba. [Applause.]
As a matter of fact, we have many examples to look at. As I said, Ghana, poor as it is, has a lot we can learn from in terms of what it has done. I am talking about a country on our continent that we can actually look to.
Incidentally, it is very strange that even in the United States of America some of the people who are opposing President Obama's national health insurance are not talking a different language from the people who are opposing the same thing here at home. So, what more do you want? The most capitalist of countries wants to introduce a national health insurance scheme. We also want to learn from what the United States is doing and what it wants to do. Thank you. [Applause.]
Upward modification of grade 12 results in past 15 years
55. Mr D A Kganare (Cope) asked the Minister of Basic Education: Whether the grade 12 results have been modified upwards in the past 15 years; if so, (a) how was this done and (b) who gave the instruction for it to be done? NO1144E
Chair, this question relates to the moving up of matric results. There has not been any modification of results in the past 15 years. But based on current legislation and in keeping with international practice, marks of specific subjects get adjusted during a standardisation process which is conducted by an independent quality assurance council - Umalusi.
Research shows that despite all the best initiatives taken by the examination body to ensure that exams conducted in a specific year are of the appropriate standard is never possible to guarantee that an examination in a particular year is of the same standard as an exam in the previous year. Therefore, to ensure that a candidate writing exams is not subjected to a more difficult or much easier exam, marks obtained in a current examination are compared to the performance of candidates in the previous year. If marks of a cohort are comparable to the previous year, the marks are accepted. But if the marks are too high or too low, there's a normal standardised adjustment process that gets implemented. So, nothing unique is done; we are told that this is international practice.
Sihlalo, ndiyabulela xa uMphathiswa eyivuma into yokuba kubekho ukulungiswa kweziphumo ukuya phezulu, njengokuba ikomiti yemicimbi yesebe ibikuxelelwe oko liGosa eliyiNtloko lesiGqeba sikaMalusi. Kodwa ke, owona mbuzo ndifuna ukuwulandelisa ngowokuba, ukuba kunjalo, zilungiswe kangakanani? Ndifuna ukwazi ukuba zilungiswe ngeepesenti ezingaphi ukuya phezulu. Kutheni kungakhange kubekho lizwi elilucacisayo olu lungiso kwiminyaka egqithileyo? Uluntu loMzantsi Afrika aluzange lukhe luxelelwe ukuba kukho into elolu hlobo.
Okokugqibela, ndiyakuva Mphathiswa, ukuba uthi le nto ayibacaphazeli abantwana abafunda kwiidyunivesithi, kodwa akucacanga ukuba le nto iza kuba nefuthe elingakanani na kubantwana abangena kwiidyunivesithi.
UMPHATHISWA WEZEMFUNDO ESISISEKO: Sihlalo, le nto ixhomekeke ekubeni amanqaku aloo nyaka anjani xa ethelekiswa nawonyaka ogqithileyo. Ngoko, andizi kukwazi ukuthi kwiminyaka eli-15 ziipesenti ezili-10 okanye ezi-5 alungelelaniswe ngazo; kuxhomekeke ekubeni amanqaku ezibalo kuloo nyaka kumelwe ukuba alungiswe njani na xa ethelekiswa naweminyaka egqithileyo. Ngoko, akukwazeki ukuchaza ukuba ziipesenti ezi-10 okanye ezi-2, kuba kungenzeka ukuba angonyuswa.
Mna ndiva kusithiwa yinto eyenzeka kwihlabathi liphela asiyonto intsha; asiyonto ongema phezu kwentaba uyikhwaze, yinto nje eyenziwa ngokwendlela ekusetyenzwa ngayo. Ngoko ke, andiqondi ukuba bekukho imfuneko yokuba sihambe sixelela abantu ukuba ngoku siyalungisa. Nembiza uyayijonga ubone ukuba ayikavuthwa, uyigalele amanzi de ilunge. Isebenza ngolo hlobo ke nale into akusetyenzwa ngeepesenti, kungenjalo singangayenzi ngendlela. Singafaka iipesenti ezili-10 ukonyusa okanye ukohlisa amanqaku. Ihamba ngolo hlobo ke le nto. Asinto ekufuneka umane uyikhwaza; yinto ehamba kakuhle ngokwesiko. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[Mr L RAMATLAKANE: Chairperson, I am happy that the Minister agrees that marks have been adjusted as the Portfolio Committee on Basic Education was informed by the CEO of Malusi. But the question I really want to ask is, if that is the case, at what rate? I would like to know the percentage at which the marks were inflated. Why was this not mentioned in the previous years? Were South Africans ever told about something of this nature?
Lastly Minister, I hear you mention that this adjustment does not affect university students, but it is not clear as to how this will affect first year university students.
THE MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Chairperson, this is determined by comparing the year's marks to those of the previous year. Therefore, I will not know if the marks were adjusted by 10 or 5 percent in the past 15 years; it depends on how much Mathematics marks of that particular year should be adjusted as compared to the previous years. Therefore, we cannot say it is 10 or 2 percent because they might not be adjusted.
And I understand this to be an international practice and not something new; it is not a big deal. This is something that is done according to standards. Therefore, I don't think that there is a need to tell people that we are making adjustments now.
Even when you are cooking you keep on checking and if the dish is not yet ready you add the required ingredients until it is done. That is how the question of results also works and not with percentages otherwise we will not do this the right way. We can add 10 percent to increase or to decrease the marks. That is how it is done. It is not something to make a fuss about; it is something that goes according to standards. [Applause.]]
Chairperson, all the research, including the benchmark tests at certain universities, indicates that there is no correlation between the ability of the majority of learners and their matric results. In the light of this, will you please clarify whether marks for the 2008 Mathematics matric paper were artificially raised, or was the exam paper set at too low a standard?
Chairperson, the member has just asked this question here. I need to come with an honest answer with regard to what happened to the Maths results. This is so that if you want us to say what the adjustments were last year around a specific subject, we are able to do so.
The fact that university results don't compare or university performance is not in line with the performance that we are dealing with is another matter all together. If it's based on the Ellis report, let's talk about the Ellis report and explain what our take on it is as a department. So, to get an honest answer around Maths results, let me not suck the answer out of my thumb. Let me undertake to bring you the correct answer. We will check if, indeed, last year's Maths results were adjusted or not. I don't have that information with me right now, otherwise I will not tell you the truth.
Minister, could you provide us with further details of progress already being registered on the process of standardising and improving our school examinations and on correcting the inconsistencies of the apartheid regime, where different provincial examination boards are now being replaced by a progressive and uniform structure that we have today?
LETONA LA THUTO YA MOTHEO: Selemong se sa tswa feta, Mme, ho ne ho ngolwa hlahlobo ya ho qala moo ho neng ho hlahlojwa hona ka bophara tlasa Letona la maoba. Ho ya pele rona re tla nne re hlahlobe bana ka tlase ho hlahlobo e le nngwe. Ke re, Mme o bua nnete ha a re ho tloha selemong se fetileng mafapha a fapaneng a neng a hlahloba bana a ile a fediswa tlasa Letona la maoba Mme Pandor.
Ho ile ha ba le hlahlobo e ntjha, e tswetseng pele, e hlahlobang bana ka ho tshwana. Haeba ho thwe ngwana o fumane letshwao la A a le Ciskei, o tsebe hore e tshwana le ya Limpopo le dibaka tse ding. Jwale e kentswe tshebetsong mme re ntse re tswela pele ho e ntlafatsa. Ho ya pele re shebile hape hore ho be le Lekgotla la Dihlahlobo le ikemetseng hore e se be rona ba rutang bana, re ba fe thupello mme re be re kgutle hape re ba hlahlobe.
Dilemong tse pedi kapa tse tharo tse tlang ho tla ba le lekgotla le ikemetseng le sa laolweng ke lefapha. E tla ba lona le hlahlobang bana. Ha jwale re ntse re tswela pele ka mosebetsi o motle. Ke a leboha nnake. (Translation of Sesotho paragraphs follows.)
[The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: Last year, hon member, the first examination was written and it was generally examined under the previous Minister. Going forward, we shall continue to examine the children under one examination. The hon member is correct when she says that from last year different departments that were examining the children were abolished under the previous Minister, Mrs Pandor.
There is a new continuous assessment which examines the children in the same way. If a learner is said to have obtained symbol A in Ciskei, you must know that it is the same as the one in Limpopo and elsewhere. It is now in operation and we are continuing to improve it. Going forward, we are also looking at having an independent Council of Examinations. It shouldn't be us who teach the children, give them training and thereafter, examine them.
In the next two to three years, there will be an independent council. It will be this council that will examine the children. At present we are continuing with our good work. Thank you, my sister.]
Role of department in resolving recent dispute between Cricket south Africa and Gauteng Cricket Board
27. Mr L Suka (ANC) asked the Minister of Sport and Recreation:
(a) What role did his department play in resolving the recent dispute between Cricket South Africa and the Gauteng Cricket Board and (b) what were the key recommendations from his department to avoid similar occurrences in the future? NO1099E
Chairperson, the question relates to the dispute that had arisen between Cricket South Africa and Gauteng Cricket Board. When we discussed the dispute with Cricket South Africa, they requested us, in terms of their own constitution and indeed in terms of the National Sports and Recreation Act, to make an intervention and bring the warring factions into an agreement. When we spoke to the Gauteng Cricket Board they also repeated the same request, and indeed we offered our services to resolve the problem. We appointed Mr Brian Currin as well as Adv Mbatha Mamba, who is a very experienced advocate in these dispute resolution issues. We agreed on a five-day programme, and on the fifth day the warring parties signed an agreement on the resolution of the problem. The problem was resolved. The issues that had caused the problem were also addressed - the issue of the money flowing from the Indian Premier League, IPL; the issue of the money that would accrue from the British tour; as well as other underlying issues of transformation. We addressed all these things, and there is perfect peace between the two cricket bodies.
Mhlalingaphambili, okwam endifuna ukukuqonda kuMphathiswa kuncinci. Ukwenzela into yokuba lo mbodamo, obu butshovutshovu nobubhovubhovu obukhe benzeka kwiapile laseJava okanye kwiqakamba lePhondo laseGauteng bungaqhubekeli nakwamanye amaphondo, ingaba akhona amanyathelo othe wawathatha ukunqanda ukuba bungaqhubekeki kul a maphondo alandelayo ukwenzela into yokuba iqakamba okanye eli apile laseJava naseSumatra lingachaphazeleki? Okokugqibela, umntu omnyama owayesakuba ngumongameli weqakamba phaya uthe akuphuma wavukela la bhodi yaphaya. Loo nto ke igxile kumba wenguqu. Ingaba ikangakanani inguqu kwiqakamba ngoba umcimbi umayela nenguqu engaqhubekekiyo kuyo. Enkosi.
UMPHATHISWA WEZEMIDLALO NEZOLONWABO: Mhlalingaphambili, ndiqinisekile ukuba umfo kaSuka unabo ubungcwethi bokuthi iBala leQakamba iWanderers lisuka phi na. Ndiyayazi ukuthi ihlabathi lonke kule veki likhumbula iminyaka engamashumi asixhenxe eeNtlekele Zangapha kwelaMajamani phakathi kwaMajamani namaJuda. Imiphumela yezoo ntlekele ke inegalelo ekuvukeni kwale ndawo esithi liBala leQakamba iWanderers.
Yimali ke ukwakha ibala elilela hlobo, ikwayimali efunekayo ukuligcina likwimeko elaliqhele ukuba yiyo phambi ko-1994. Yingxaki yokuqala leyo, mfo kaSuka. Izikhwama eziqhele imali ziyanxakama xa zizifumana sezingaphandle kwayo. Yinto yokuqala esiqubisene nayo ke leyo ukuthi uMbutho weQakamba woMzantsi Afrika njengeminye imibutho kufanele ube nale nto sithi ngumkhomba-ndlela wokuba ube namabala okudlalela imidlalo emikhulu kangakanana yamazwe ngamazwe, nto leyo ngesiNgesi kuthiwa zii-guidelines.
Bavumile ke aboMbutho weQakamba woMzantsi Afrika bavuma nabeBhodi yeQakamba yaseGauteng. Oku kwakunceda ukuba wonke umntu azi ukuba imigaqo yokudlala kweli bala nakweli lizwe iyeyiphi na kuwo wonke umntu walapha, nemali efumanekayo iya nakuye wonke umntu onebala elifanelekileyo.
Kweli cala lenguqu, ngo-1992 abantu abaninzi bakukhumbula ukuba sihalalisele ukuphela kwale ngxubakaxaka ibikade ikhona ukusukela ngo-1975. Kodwa phaya eRhawutini ayikhange iphele loo nto leyo. Umgaqo-siseko wala bhodi yaseRhawutini ucacisa gca, ukusukela kulo nyaka ungaphaya kwalo uphelileyo, ukuba akufuneki baphathe bodwa abebala elithile. Kufuneka babambisane kuba abakahlangani. Akukho nguqu kwiBhodi yeQakamba yaseGauteng. Akukho nophuhliso ngoba iyacaca gca into yokuba bonke abantu abadlalela iBhodi yeQakamba yaseGauteng ayingoba phaya, bathengwa kwezinye iindawo. Sithe ke kubo mababenekomiti yabantu abathandathu, le nto kuthiwa yinguqu. Siyenzile ke loo nto baphethe yona kwaye futhi sithi 50-50 ngokwesigqibo sika 1992. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[Mr L SUKA: Chairperson, it's just a small matter that I need clarity on from the Minister. I would like to know what measures have been put in place in trying to deal with the strife and instability within the Gauteng Cricket Board to avoid the spread of such behaviour to other provinces and thereby affecting the development of cricket - the apple of Java and Sumatra?
Lastly when a former black president left the office, he fought with the board. This has to do with transformation. What kind of transformation has been implemented as far as cricket is concerned, because the main issue here is the lack of transformation? Thank you.
Chairperson, I am sure that the hon Suka knows the history of the Wanderers Stadium. I know that this week the whole world is commemorating 70 years of holocaust in Germany between the Germans and the Jews. The consequences of that holocaust has a bearing on the establishment of the place we call Wanderers Stadium.
It cost a substantial amount of money to build a stadium of this magnitude and to maintain it before 1994. That is the first problem, hon Suka. People who used to handle these amounts are not happy now that they are not involved anymore. This is the first challenge that we are confronted with, that the South African Cricket Board, like all other boards must, have guidelines on building stadiums that will host big international games.
This was agreed to by the South African Cricket Board and the Gauteng Cricket Board. It will also sensitise people about the rules and regulations of playing in this stadium and in this country, and that the available money goes to every person with the right colour.
On the question of transformation, people will remember that in 1992, we celebrated the end of this quagmire that existed since 1975. But it did not stop in Gauteng. The constitution clearly states that, from the year before last, the board should not be made up of people from only one particular race. They must work together if they have not done that yet.
There is no transformation in the Gauteng Cricket Board. There is no development there because it is crystal clear that all the players of the Gauteng Cricket Board are not from Gauteng, they were bought from other areas. We recommended a six-member committee, and that is what we call transformation. We have done that and they are working on it, and we emphasised on the 1992 resolution of 50-50.]
Chairperson, on behalf of the ID we would like to congratulate the Minister for the role he has played in resolving the problems. But we are of the opinion that the hon Minister owes this House and the entire South African nation an answer to a million dollar question. Why did Cricket South Africa refuse to sign a contract with IPL? If there ever was a contract, why was it not made available to the Gauteng Cricket Board? We would like to have certainty on the contract signed by Cricket South Africa and IPL. Thank you.
Chairperson, I would like to thank the hon member for raising the issue of the contract. It is actually a one dollar question. The offices of Cricket South Africa are just across the road from the office of the Gauteng Cricket Board. We asked the Gauteng Cricket Board why they don't walk across the road and have a look at the contract if they want it. That is what they have been doing all these years. They replied by saying that they were fighting with Cricket South Africa. I told them to put the fight aside and go and get the facts. They did so. The contract was then signed.
The contract between the IPL and Cricket South Africa was signed. It is a binding contract. That is precisely why they got out of their cocoons and accepted the fact that a binding contract is a binding contract. They may not like its conditions but it is a binding contract.
Mhlonishwa, kuyangithokozisa ukuthi uma ningena loludaba anikhulumanga nje ngokulamula lamadoda abanga imali kodwa nikhulume nangoshintsho. Ngicabanga ukuthi kungokokuqala-ke lo mthetho esawushaya ngonyaka odlule wokunika amandla ukuthi ungenelele ezindabeni ezinjengalezi, ukuthi ubuvivinywa. Umbuzo wami uthi-ke, Ngesikhathi seningena ezindabeni zoshintsho yingoba kunesivumelwano ekomitini lomnyango kazwelonke ukuthi ijubane loshintsho lihamba kancane. Noma lo Mthetho ukunikeza amandla aneleyo ukuba ungenelele futhi ezindabeni zoshintsho njengoba uMongameli we Cricket South Africa ethe kunezigidi eziyikhulu ku akhawunti ye Gauteng Cricket kodwa abayisebenzisile kwezentuthuko ukuthi ngabe lo Mthetho uyakunika yini amandla angaphezulu ukuba ungenelele kulezo zindaba? Ngiyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[Mr B W DHLAMINI: Hon Minister, I am glad that when you intervened in this matter to resolve the dispute between these two bodies who are quarrelling over money, you talked about transformation as well. I think this is the first time that the Act that we passed last year, which gives you the power to intervene in matters of this nature, including board reviews, has been implemented. My question is, when you touched the issue of transformation, was it because of the resolution passed by the portfolio committee which cited the slow pace in transformation or is it because this Act gives you enough power to intervene and effect transformation? The Chairperson of the South African Cricket Board said that there is one hundred million rands sitting in the Gauteng Cricket Board's account, which was meant for development and was not used. Does this Act give you power to intervene in those matters? I thank you.]
Chairperson, the answer is no. For instance, with regard to the millions of rands in the accounts of the Gauteng Cricket Board, we cannot compel the Gauteng Cricket Board to use that money in any way. This is their private account. What we must do is to convert and transform the thinking of the Gauteng Cricket Board - its managers and administrators - to understand the meaning of transformation. Transformation is a word which many people use, but very few actually mean the same thing when they use it.
Our view is that transformation should begin from the bottom, not from the top. It should begin at schools, club administrators and at a juniors' level. Hopefully parents who have had an experience of an untransformed environment will learn from their children. That is what the department is doing, at a slow pace. Transformation cannot be quick; it cannot be a short- circuited programme. As the Minister of Higher education said, it has to be refined in order for it to be what we want it to be; it has to take time.
Chairperson, the hon Minister said that they were requested to assist in this dispute. What I want to know from him is who appointed the facilitator, Mr Currin, and the lawyers, and who paid for it?
Chairperson, the request came from the Gauteng Cricket Board and Cricket South Africa. We facilitated the appointment of both lawyers and we paid for their services. We paid for their services because we appointed them.
See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.