Chairperson, municipal managers and managers directly accountable to them are appointed in terms of the relevant provisions in the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act by the relevant municipal councils. Any of these managers whose appointment is questionable in terms of the existing legal instrument must be dealt with accordingly the moment information is received.
I have great respect for what the Minister has just said and I'm really very happy to hear it. The competency or the powers - whatever you want to call it - rests with the MECs to take the necessary action within 14 days after they have been notified of the council decision.
Now, I can mention a couple of situations where these unlawful appointments have been made and where positions have not been advertised and contracts have just been extended. Others have had court judgments and those are not being followed through. So, can the Minister tell us whether he may then intervene over and above the MEC, please?
Yes, of course, even if municipalities made a mistake and appointed somebody who, in terms of the law, was not supposed to have been appointed, they will surely act if that information surfaces. If the MEC gets to know about those things within 14 days, then the MEC will surely act. However, if there is a clear demonstration that there is no willingness to act in that regard, by all means the Minister may act.
Hon Minister, will you please help me? There is a court judgment stating that a certain municipal manager is not capable of doing the job. The council took a decision to dismiss him but the mayor insists on keeping him, and this situation is ongoing. No meetings are being held - not ward, committee or council meetings - but he insists that he will stay. What can we do about this?
We can do whatever is possible, but we must first know who we are talking about. Secondly, which municipality is involved? Thirdly, which court ruled on what, and what informed that ruling? Fourthly, what informs the mayor to insist on dealing with this issue? Is it a question of then saying that his or her understanding of the rule of trias politica is that the role of the executive has been encroached upon? Is that it?
So, we can do whatever is possible, but help us. You wondered if we could help. Yes, we can help but you also have to help us in order to help you. The hon member has to give us the details. Which municipality is he talking about? We can definitely help because if we don't, we create a legacy that could compromise our drive for clean governance. We definitely have to do something about that. Let us know, then we will take that forward.
Thank you, I will give you that information.
Order! No, no, no, we heard your follow- up question. The hon Faber raised his hand and then left the House.
Chairperson, you see, that is the problem with the DA: When they are supposed to appear, they disappear! [Laughter.] [Interjections.] We are grateful for the Minister's response. In theory, much of what the Minister says is right and fine, but the reality and the practicalities at local government level tell us something different.
Regarding the principle of appointments, one of the challenges that the councils experience is a lack of regulation from the department regarding the credentials of the appointees in terms of sections 56 and 57. This was so until recently - about three weeks ago. My question to the Minister is: Have the regulations that are supposed to guide the councils in regard to the qualifications and credentials of section 56 and 57 appointments been gazetted by the department?
The Local Government: Municipal Systems Amendment Act is enabling legislation in terms of dealing with questions of competency. The regulations are meant to facilitate the interpretation and application of the amendment in terms of that. We will soon publish that. There is a process of consultation, which we are finalising, on the regulations themselves. July was our target, but we have since shifted that to allow for final consultations. We will continue to deal with that - I'm meeting the unions tomorrow as part of that consultation. On Tuesday, I'm meeting the SA Local Government Association as part of taking this process of consultation forward in order to finalise the regulations so that we can amend.
I think hon delegates will remember that the Local Government: Municipal Systems Amendment Act, owing to its nature, has been a process characterised by quite a lot of toing and froing. We are dealing with that and these matters will be addressed. However, it can't be argued that at the moment we don't have an instrument when the Act is there. It is very clear in terms of the proclamation, which is commonly referred to as the 2013 Proclamation, between the Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and Minister of Finance. There are even specific minimum requirements. That is why it is now being said that the local government environment is actually overregulated. It is because we are dealing with those very issues. So, there can be no such excuse. Yes, of course, we are not abdicating our responsibility to finalise the regulations. We will do so, as I have indicated.
Hon Faber, I had you on the list before the hon Sinclair but then you left the House. You are back now. Do you still want to ask a question?
Thank you, hon Chair, I just had to run out and make sure of my facts. Hon Minister, I would just like to know: Regarding the appointment - or let's start with the interview process - of section 56 and 57 managers, when we have complaints that all parties are not involved, how do we go about doing something about that? Unfortunately, it happens that not all parties are involved in this process. We need to know because we are not just talking about people who are not qualified. Sometimes we do get people who are qualified but not all parties are involved. How do we let our councillors out there handle that in the correct way? What procedures should we then follow, seeing as the MECs and the mayors don't adhere to what we ask?
Hon Minister, I don't know whether you are going to take that question.
Hon Chairperson, let me try. Clearly, there are circulars that deal with managing that, because you can't prescribe for a procedural issue in an Act. That would be taking legislation too far. You have to deal with that in terms of the instruments of management, and circulars are one of them.
There are situations where you find that people interpret "all parties must be involved" as referring to all the political parties serving in a municipality. That is not practical. We are dealing with an administrative matter that has to be managed in a particular way. That is the situation I have.
Also, we can benefit in that we will be able to answer directly. We don't want to be seen to be giving general answers when we deal with honourable Houses like this. We want to give specific answers. If it was being said that in municipality A the requirement for constituting a panel was not satisfied, then we can easily clarify that. I clarified that just before coming here, in Swellendam, and they came to understand that it was true.
In the majority of cases, people will hunt for reasons and raise issues regarding panels only after a decision has been taken to appoint a particular person. If a decision has been taken to appoint a person they do not want, then they raise all sorts of things. I'm not saying, hon delegate, that that is the case here. I'm generalising because I don't know the specifics.
Thank you very much, hon Minister Baloyi. Hon members, you will notice that we have come to the sixth question and therefore Rule 246(4) kicks in. This Rule clearly explains that a Minister can be asked only six questions. Therefore, any question that comes after question number six will be dealt with differently. The Minister has answered all the questions he was allowed to in terms of the Rules of this House. Thank you very much, hon Minister, for your time and the responses you have provided.
We shall therefore proceed to question 78. In doing so, we welcome Deputy Minister Dlodlo. I don't know whether it is the first time ... [Interjections.] It's not her first time here, but is it not her first time for answering questions in her current position? [Interjections.] Not? In any case, you are heartily welcomed. You may proceed with the question asked by the hon Themba.
Monitoring of and information on public servants who have been suspended and/or dismissed for misconduct in national departments
78. Ms M P Themba (ANC) asked the Minister for the Public Service and Administration:
Whether her department (a) monitors and/or (b) keeps information of public servants who have been (i) suspended and/or (ii) dismissed for misconduct in national departments; if not, why not; if so, (aa) how many public servants were (aaa) suspended and/or (bbb) dismissed in the past three years, (bb) what was the nature of their misconduct and (cc) how many of those were from the Chief Director level and above?