Chairperson, the Manase inquiry was commissioned by the Member of the Executive Council in the KwaZulu-Natal province, representing a distinct sphere of government with corresponding authority to deal with matters of providing support and oversight on municipalities. The MEC is handling matters of the eThekwini Municipality according to the material conditions obtaining in the area.
It has become public knowledge, as was the intention of the MEC in commissioning the Manase inquiry. The hon delegate Zulu, fully understanding the role and space of the NCOP, knows very well how he can exploit the strategic location of this House to ensure accountability to actions directed by executive authorities in provinces where such actions occur.
Of course we operate in a manner that respects the classical dictum that justice delayed is justice denied. In this context, whenever allegations of corruption are raised against certain individuals, the affected individuals and the public deserve a fair and speedy resolution of these allegations. These we observe, noting that the merits of a case dictate how much time we spend dealing with each one of them in a democratic environment that recognises the rule of law.
Is there a follow-up question?
No, thank you. There is no follow-up question.
With regard to reports into corrupt municipalities being released immediately, we have one such major problem - and I am mentioning Matjhabeng Local Municipality in Welkom - relating to the famous or infamous Ramathe Fivaz Report. I wrote to the Minister and I got the reply - thank you, Minister - stating that this report was released some six months ago, but it is the shortened version. Nobody has ever seen the full version and it deals with maladministration and corruption. Please, Minister, is there any chance that I could get the full report on this?
I commit that I will look into the matter and report accordingly.
Chairperson, my question to the Minister is this: Does a legislative mechanism exist in the Department for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs that enables the Minister to mete out punitive action to municipalities that have been found beyond reasonable doubt to have erred and, secondly, municipalities that are found to have erred deliberately, year in and year out, by the Auditor-General, particularly those municipalities where actions of corruption have been reported and where such proof has been put forward? In the Ministry or in the department, is there such legislation to mete out punitive action?
Chairperson, the legislative instruments that are available to manage cases of corruption and related matters exist in the context of the critical features defining the relationship of the following three spheres: distinctiveness, interdependence and inter-relatedness. It is the desired legal position that the first step in the meting out of action against corrupt activities should be done at the level where the misconduct occurred; at the level where corruption or any other issue occurred.
At the level of the Minister, we come in at the point where you are satisfied that all other local avenues have been exhausted or there is no capacity to deal with the issue. Either we deal with that through section 154 of the Constitution, which provides for support to municipalities in dealing with issues like that, or it goes to section 139. However, we also have other instruments to deal with that. We know we have a code of conduct and anticorruption instruments in this country that we have to use to deal with those issues. So, yes, the body of legal instruments to assist in dealing with these issues is actually fully staffed.
Chairperson, dealing with the specific matter of the Manase report, the Minister referred to the previous question and, in his initial response, to the fact that there are various legal prerogatives to engage on to deal with this matter. Hon Minister, given the fact that this Manase report apparently has been around for a while and that many of these legal procedures that you recommend have been engaged, don't you believe the time has arrived that you, in your capacity as Minister, engage in these methods to release the report?
Chairperson, I have responded to part of that question. I would like to refer to it again and say that this House of Parliament differs from the National Assembly because it is a House of provinces. The Manase report was actioned at the provincial level and for that reason this House has a right to engage with it at that particular level. That is the point I raised, so that we do not appoint Ministers to become messengers for us to do exactly what we are supposed to do in this House.
Having raised that, I also want to indicate that the Manase report has not only been around for some time but the Manase inquiry that produced the report is public knowledge in terms of what action was taken in that particular province and in Ethekwini Local Municipality. I think we can deal with those issues. It is not that one does not want to come and present the report. The MEC has got the space to come and present it here. If the MEC was to talk about the report, she would go into more details than I could because the commissioning was at that level, under her control. That is exactly what I indicated.
With due respect, Minister, I would like to bring to your attention, as the Minister of this department, that this report has been kept in Durban for months now. It has never been released to the people to deal with it. We make an application to you, as the responsible person in this department.
Ugqugquzele phela baba ukuthi aziboshwe izigebengu. Yizigidi zemali elaphaya! Akuyona imadlana nje! Mhlawumbe ukuba ngamasentshana ayishumi nanhlanu ngabe ngithi akuyekwe. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[You must see to it that these criminals are arrested. We are talking about millions of rands that were misappropriated, not just small change. If the money involved was maybe only fifteen cents, we would not be so concerned.]
On a point of order, for the record of this House, the MEC reported in the portfolio committee of this legislature. The Minister's answer is relevant because that report was presented to the portfolio committee, which is representative of all parties. The insinuation made by the member is not correct.
Point of order sustained. I am not going to allow a debate on this issue. [Interjections.] No, no, no. I am not going to allow a debate on this issue. [Interjections.] Hon members, just to assist you, I do not know what you are debating. This is not a debate. Prince, may I assist by sustaining the point of order as presented by the leader of the delegation from KwaZulu-Natal. To assist further, as a delegate from KwaZulu-Natal, it is also advisable that you, with your collective, further engage with the provincial legislature because, moreover, the report was presented to the portfolio committee in this legislature and it was adopted. I tried to caution you on this: Let us not try to put the Minister on the spot on issues that we, as members of this House, should know he may not have the authority to deal with. [Interjections.] Is that a follow-up question? I think it will be the last follow-up question.
Hon Chair, I think the Minister is being of assistance to most of us and, in particular, to our own Select Committees on Finance and on Appropriations in the manner that he is handling this situation. We appreciate the input that the Minister is making. The question I want to ask is in relation to instances where wrongdoing has been unearthed in the municipality and both the municipality and the province do not act. The report then becomes available to both the Finance and Appropriations committees. Once we have a report of that nature, is it possible to hand that type of the report to the Minister, for the Minister to act?
That is not a follow-up question. And just to assist with the process: Yes, you can.
Details relating to water scarcity in rural areas
66. Prince M M M Zulu (IFP) asked the Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs:
(1) Whether he has implemented any processes that deal with water scarcity in the rural areas; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details;
(2) whether any strategies have been planned to urgently relieve the plight of those people who have little or no water in the rural areas; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details;
(3) whether the area of Ingwavuma in KwaZulu-Natal is included in these plans; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? CO620E
Chairperson, we have established a close corporation arrangement with the Department of Water and Environmental Affairs in keeping with our operational stance of mobilising actors in the service delivery chain to respond in a co-ordinated fashion. The idea is to respond to the community's needs in the delivery of water as a basic service. In terms of this arrangement, we identified critical areas to be considered as priority areas that needed our joint effort. Ingwavuma, in the Umkhanyakude District, is one of the 23 districts nationally prioritised for development. The universal access plan for the Umkhanyakude District includes the upgrade of the Sewula water treatment works, the borehole and the refurbishment of waterworks and schemes.
Further to this, Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs funded the Ingwavuma ventilated improved pit sanitation project in 2011-2012 from the municipal infrastructure grant to the value of R142 588 855, and it is funding the construction of the Ingwavuma sportsfield ablution block to the value of R329 million in 2012-2013.
Chairperson, in connection with water supply to communities, are there projects or plans in your department, or from your department to municipalities, regarding the harvesting of rainwater?
Chairperson, I didn't hear the question.
Hon member, can you repeat your question, because I also missed it?
What I would like to find out from the Minister is whether there is any plan in his department, or in the plans between national government, the municipality or local government and the province, for the harvesting of rainwater in certain areas in rural communities.
Chairperson, the connection between the Department for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, the delivery of water and the arrangement I referred to between ourselves and the Department of Water and Environmental Affairs is that the Department of Water and Environmental Affairs delivers water, and they do so at the local area, where we are responsible. But we are not directly responsible for the actual harvesting of water and the channelling of this water from the source, be it the natural source, to the taps, where people use it. What we then have to do in this regard is to say yes, it is the responsibility of the Minister for Water and Environmental Affairs to make sure that they supply water. The Minister of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs will then say: My municipalities and my people at this local area need water. That is why we got into that partnership and into that operational agreement. But as far as the actual harvesting is concerned, the Minister of Water and Environmental Affairs can best deal with that.
Chairperson, perhaps the Minister did not understand my question. [Interjections.]
I think what the Minister is saying, in summary, is that it is a collective responsibility.
Chairperson, I will take it up with the Minister.
Financial implications of demarcation of District Management Areas into Grade 1 and Grade 2 local municipalities and additional funding mechanisms being put in place
73. Mrs E C van Lingen (DA) asked the Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs:
(1) Whether demarcating the District Management Areas into (a) Grade 1 and (b) Grade 2 local municipalities had any financial implications on the operational budgets of these municipalities; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what financial support measures are in place to ensure the sustainability of service delivery;
(2) whether any additional funding mechanisms have been put in place to address the (a) capital and (b) operational budgets of the (i) Grade 1 and (ii) Grade 2 local municipalities; if not, why not; if so, what process has to be followed to apply for additional funding? CO627E
When determining or re-determining municipal boundaries, the Municipal Demarcation Board takes into account factors related to the economic viability of the entities created and the responsibility of various spheres to carry out their mandates.
The Municipal Demarcation Board determines or re-determines municipal boundaries, taking into account the existing funding framework applicable to municipalities because no additional funding mechanisms are put in place solely to deal with demarcation issues. However, this is a matter of general application across all municipalities, regardless of whether they are affected by re-demarcation or not, as compared to other grades of municipalities. All grades, Grade 1 to Grade 3, local municipalities receive funding through the local government equitable share and other conditional grants such as the municipal infrastructure grant and municipal systems improvement grant.
Chairperson, some of these municipalities got additional areas, the district management areas. At the moment these areas cover more or less a third of their size but they don't have a revenue base and there is no income to cover operations and service delivery in those areas.
When these particular municipalities were under the auspices of the district municipality, the MIG funding was in Year 1. In Year 2, an extra 8% was given on the capital side. In Year 3, the whole project fell flat and the capital couldn't carry on. When it comes to the equitable share, the numbers in these rural areas are too low to cover service delivery. This is where we are asking, Minister: Is there an additional source of funding on either side and could Misa perhaps help us here?
This is a very important follow-up question. Perhaps specifics are needed so that we can respond in detail. Which municipalities are we talking about? That will suggest whether it is an issue for Misa to respond to or is it an issue of how we deal with demarcation questions to manage such situations. So, what the hon delegate is talking about is a very important follow-up question, but we need specifics. Could it be Kungwini Municipality, which was incorporated into Tshwane Municipality, or which ones are we talking about? With those specifics, we would be in a position to respond to that. There is no one-size-fits-all response when dealing with questions like this. Of course, there is no idle money. Therefore, you have to look at each situation according to its own merit, and you can't talk merits before you talk specifics.
Details relating to dismissal of section 56 and 57 managers who had been unlawfully appointed in local municipalities since May 2011
74. Mrs E C van Lingen (DA) asked the Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs:
Whether section (a) 56 and (b) 57 managers who had been unlawfully appointed in local municipalities since May 2011 will be dismissed from those positions by the relevant MECs; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details?