Sekela Somlomo, mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe, angazi noma ngikuzwe kahle yini ngenkathi uthi uMthethosivivinywa weziNkantolo zezeNdabuko ungomunye weMithethosivivinywa ohlukumeza abesifazane. Angazi noma ngikuzwe kahle yini? (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, I am not sure whether I heard you correctly when you were saying that the Traditional Courts Bill is one of the Bills that abuses women's rights. I am not sure whether I heard you correctly?]
If that is the case, I would ask you, hon Minister, to specify exactly which clauses you are referring to. In this House, we have people who can authoritatively - authoritatively - talk about that Bill. We have the hon Chief Holomisa there and my leader here. In fact, if you look back into history, there was the Natal Code of Zulu Law, which undermined women and regarded them as children. It was abolished by our leader here.
This was not part of the question.
Now, I would really like to know from you which specific clauses are undermining women, because if you take traditional councils, women are ...
Hon Mpontshane ...
Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: That is not the question we are dealing with. We would like the member to align himself with what we are discussing.
It is related!
Hon Minister, do you want to answer?
The MINISTER OF WOMEN, CHILDREN AND PEOPLE WITH DISABILITIES: I think we will need another day to debate this issue, but I can answer the hon member by saying that the Traditional Courts Bill refers to the promotion of culture and tradition, and we know that not all cultural practices are progressive.
Sinawo amasiko afana nokuthwalwa kwabantwana apho abantwana abeneminyaka eli-12 bathi batshate namaxhego angama-60. Sinawo namasiko afana nokungenwa ekuthiwa xa umama ebhujelwe yindoda, uyangenwa okanye uyaphuma? Xa ungangenwa uyaphuma emzini wakho nasemhlabeni wakho. Zonke ke ezi zinto sithi maziqale ziqwalaselwe kakuhle. Asiyiphikisi into yokuba sinawo umThetho oYilwayo weeNkundla zeMveli, asiyiphikisa into yokuba sinayo inkcubeko ...
SEKELA-SOMLOMO: Mnu Mpontshane, yintoni le uthi iphume ecaleni? Awoneliseki yile nto ayithethayo? (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[We do have cultural practices such as "Ukuthwala" of children of 12 years of age who will be married to 60-year-old men. We also have cultural practices whereby a woman would be married to the brother of her late husband or go back to her maiden family. She must leave her home and property if there is no one to marry her within her late husband's family. We say all of these things need to be taken into consideration. We are not against the Traditional Courts Bill, we are not saying we do not have a culture ...
Mr Mpontshane, what is out of order? You are not happy with what he is saying?]
Deputy Speaker, can I address you on this point? I urge you ... [Interjections.]
SEKELA-SOMLOMO: Hayi, asiyonto iphume ecaleni leyo. Myeke aphendule. Mnu Mpontshane, awufuni esezolo; hlala phantsi. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Phendula, Mphathiswa.