Speaker, the Minister for Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs, who was then the Minister of Provincial and Local Government, requested permission to travel to Switzerland in December 2008 in order to perform official duties related to South Africa's hosting of the 2010 Fifa Soccer World Cup.
Former President Kgalema Motlanthe accordingly granted permission as it was considered important for the Minister to acquaint himself with his new role as chairperson of the host cities under the 2010 Local Organising Committee.
I requested a report from the Minister, subsequent to media reports alleging that business other than what former President Motlanthe had been informed about, had transpired. The Minister complied. The complaint is also being investigated by the Public Protector and I await the outcome of that process. I thank you, hon Speaker.
Thank you, Speaker. Hon President, when a member of Cabinet has been sent on a mission such as this one, you would expect to receive a report on his return saying what he went to do and what he had done. Such a report would not require an investigation now. It should be on your desk. [Interjections.]
Therefore, the country now knows that our public funds were spent there. That meeting that he was originally supposed to attend did not happen. In fact, before he left indications were given everywhere that that meeting was no longer going to happen. Instead he visited, in terms of the report, a drug mule in jail.
We, the members of the public in this country, lost thousands of rands because of the limousines that he was driving around in in Switzerland visiting his girlfriend. He was abusing those resources.
Hon member, your time has expired.
The poor in the squatter camps and the townships have nothing to eat.
Hon member, your time has expired.
We require a firm ... [Interjections.] Your government must account for this thing. [Interjections.]
Hon member, your time has expired. Hon member, I'll have you ejected from the House. [Interjections.] Order, hon members!
Hon Speaker, I think I made the point very clear that the Minister was going there in his capacity as chairperson of the Local Organising Committee which was organising the 2010 World Cup.
Certainly, all the people who went came back and reported to that committee. There were people specifically dealing with those matters. This was not a mission sent by government, but whichever Minister leaves, he or she has to get permission from the President. The President, as I said, granted permission, having understood that he was going there on the basis of acquainting himself with how these matters are run. He came back and reported on what he was going to report.
The matter that arises as an allegation arises now. Once the matter arose I asked him to respond to the questions, as I have said, and he did. At the same time, the Public Protector informed me that she was investigating the matter. She has been investigating the matter. We are waiting for her finalisation of the matter. Thank you, hon Speaker.
Speaker and President, allow me to make a brief statement: "Monokotswai ha o butswe ho ya ka takatso ya tshwene." [Things don't happen according to what we wish.] We cannot, on the one hand, accept the rule of law in that we must respect institutions while, on the other hand, we then expect to make decisions in spite of our knowing that they are going to act. We should trust the process that is under way, as the President has indicated.
Mr President, how do we ensure that we do not only in theory accept the rule of law, but in practice do likewise? Can we act likewise in all these situations?
That is absolutely true. If we profess to respect the rule of law, we must do so. It should not change when we feel otherwise. Thank you, hon Speaker.
Speaker, on a point of order: I note the President's reply, but then why did not he respect the rule of law in terms of the Public Protector's findings in respect of the hon Mahlangu-Nkabinde? [Interjections.]
That's not a point of order. Hon Lorimer.
What was the rule of law there that I did not respect? Maybe the speaker could tell me.
Hon President, we have moved on and I've recognised Mr Lorimer.
Oh, I see. Sorry. Sorry, hon Speaker. [Laughter.]
I know you can't see me. I'm behind you, Mr President, but I still preside in the House. You have the floor, Mr Lorimer.
Thank you, Mr Speaker. Hon President, you said the following in April this year, and I'm going to quote them back to you. You said: There will be no hesitation if these things that are being said are true; absolutely no hesitation. There are enough reasons for action to be taken. Here there is going to be action and we are not going to take long even to investigate because these are too serious allegations against the Minister.
Some of those things that were being said are true. Now we know they were true, because Minister Shiceka "admitted" - I want to emphasise that word - that he spent R28 000 putting up a Mr Mntambo, who he described as a father figure, and Mr Mntambo's wife at the One and Only Hotel, which is one of the most expensive hotels in the country.
Mr President, in view of the fact that there is undisputed evidence of wasteful expenditure and, in view of your promises to act quickly, how do you account for five months going by without any action on your part? When you answer, sir, I do not believe the people of this country, and particularly people in failed municipalities, will accept hiding behind the processes of the Public Protector.
Hon Speaker, I'm not sure why the hon member is implying that there has been no action when I have said here that once there were allegations, I asked the Minister to explain. I went further to say that the Minister answered my questions. Why must the member then stand up and say that there has been no action? So, the words that you said are not true. This is because I have said that there has been action. [Interjections.] I asked him to explain the allegations levelled against him and he answered.
At that time the Public Protector informed me that she was instituting an investigation. I have to respect that process of the Public Protector. [Interjections.] I could not move on whatever the Minister had answered, because I had to wait for the report from the Public Protector. I have had discussions with the Public Protector. Recently she wrote to say that she was sending a final written questionnaire to the Minister. Once the Minister responds, she is going to give the report to me. How could I act before the Public Protector has concluded the case? How could I? [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Order!
Now I'm saying, hon Speaker, this happened to be one process by me, and my process can't be above the process of the Public Protector. Once the Public Protector - a Chapter 9 institution - says that it's investigating a case, how could I say that I don't care, and then move and take action? I've got to respect the Public Protector and wait for the report. This is what I am waiting for. [Interjections.] That is the answer. [Interjections.]
Order! Order! Order!
Ngiyabonga, Somlomo. Mhlonishwa Mongameli, kukhona umbuzo engiwubuze ngaphambili lapho uthe ngiyampumputha. [Uhleko.] Kulona-ke angimpumputhi Mongameli, sikhuluma ngomuntu ogama lakhe libhaliwe phansi.
Umhlonishwa uMongameli uthi uzolinda uMvikeli woMphakathi. Amazwi afundwe umhlonishwa oyiLungu lePhalamende athi wathi lento ibucayi kakhulu ifanele ukuthathelwa izinyathelo masinyane. Okokuqala, umasinyane usho ukuthini Mongameli? Okwesibili, kuyoze kube nini Mongameli kukhona abantu abangawuhloniphi umthetho wabo walapha eNdlini obekelwe ukuhlonishwa ngamalungu alapha eNdlini ekubeni bangamalungu futhi eKhabhinethi yakho Mongameli. Kufanele kwenziwe njani ngabo kanti?
UMONGAMELI WEZWE LASENINGIZIMU AFRIKA: Somlomo, ngiyalibonga ithuba, lungu elihloniphekile, ngiyakuzwa manje awumpumputhi manje ngoba ngempela likhona igama. Kodwa-ke, njengoba elinye ilungu elihloniphekile licaphunile emazwini engawasho, nangempela nginele ngezwa nje ukuthi amaphephandaba athi kukhona izinto ezenziwa yilo mhlonishwa, angipholisanga maseko, ngambuza ngenza lento ebikade icashunywa yilowo mnumzane.
Ngambuza, ngathi nanka amaphephandaba ekhuluma, uthini ndoda na? Waphendula, kuthe ngaleso sikhathi sengithathe izinyathelo, wabe esethi uMvikeli woMphakathi usethathe izinyathelo zokuluphenya lolu daba.
Ngithe-ke mhlonishwa, angikwazi ukuthi uma uMvikeli woMphakathi esethathe izinyathelo zokuphenya ngiqhubeka nami. Kufanele ngilinde yena aqede, aphethe imbenge ngophenyo lwakhe, alethe umbiko kimina bese ngiyawubheka lowo mbiko ngithathe isinqumo. Ngeke ngipholise maseko nangaleso sikhathi. Mhlonishwa Somlomo, ngiyakuphinda lokhu engakusho. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Mr V B NDLOVU: Thank you, Speaker. Hon President, there is a question that I asked previously and you said I was speculating. [Laughter.] I am not speculating now when I ask this question, hon President - we are talking about a person whose name is in black and white.
The hon President is saying he is going to wait for the Public Protector. The words read by the Member of Parliament indicate that you said this is very critical and that it needs to be attended to urgently. Firstly, what does urgently mean, Mr President? Secondly, for how long should we always have people who do not respect the Rules of this House which have been set for the members of this House to abide by; and they are the members of your Cabinet, Mr President. What is it that needs to be done about them?
Speaker, thank you for the opportunity. Hon member, I hear you are really not speculating now that there is a name. But, as the other hon member quoted from what I said, honestly I can say that when I heard the newspapers reported that there are things that this hon member did, I did not waste any time, and I confronted him and did what was quoted by the member.
I confronted him, and said that the newspapers are saying things, what do you have to say for yourself? He responded, when I reacted. The Public Protector then said that she had already started with the investigation on this matter.
I then said, hon member, that I cannot proceed when the Public Protector has already taken the initiative to investigate the matter. I have to wait for her to finish, conclude her investigation, and send me the report so I can read it and make a decision. Even at that time I am not going to waste any time. Hon Speaker, I reiterate what I said. [Applause.]]
I thank the hon President. Order! Hon members ...
Mr Speaker, on a point of order: Why would the President react immediately on that report and not on the report in respect of Mahlangu-Nkabinde? [Interjections.]
That's not a point of order. [Interjections.] I was about to thank you, hon President, before I was interrupted. But let me start from the beginning. That concludes questions to the President. I wish to thank the hon President. [Applause.] Thank you, hon President. We can allow you to leave, hon President. We will continue.
We now come to notices of motion. Does any member wish to give notice of a motion?
Speaker, on a point of order: Generally speaking, on the day that the President answers questions, there are neither motions nor statements. I am surprised to hear today that you are calling for motions. It is an unusual occurrence on a day like this.
No, I am informed by the Table staff that it is not unusual. It is unusual for you to sit until the end of the meeting. That is unusual. [Laughter.]
See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.