Thank you very much, Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP.
I want to thank everyone for the contributions that have been made in this discussion and say that the debate, in my view, was of quality. That was confirmed by the Deputy Minister, who sat in this House for the first time in his life. [Applause.] He was saying that the debate was a quality one, comparatively speaking. I won't say comparative to what. [Laughter.] I was telling him that this is always the case. This House is always focused, and its debates are of quality.
At the same time I want to say that it is clear to me that everyone in this debate calls for the intervention of government at the national level on issues of governance across the board, whether in municipalities or in provinces. I can promise you we are going to do exactly that. We are going to breathe heavily down the necks of everyone who is not performing their tasks and carrying out their responsibilities. [Applause.] We believe that, from our side, serving the people of South Africa in whatever role is a privilege, and that privilege must not be taken for granted. That privilege must be respected, because the decisions we make affect many people. We are not working in the private sector where decisions we are making only affect us and our families. Therefore we must never betray the trust that our people, as the people of this country, place in us, including ourselves in this august House.
Mr Watson, the veteran, is raising an issue around representivity, the removal of people, the deployment of cadres and so on. I think he must tell me and members of this House why there are no women in the provincial cabinet of this province. We will continuously raise this issue because we believe that the women of South Africa are in the majority, and also in the Western Cape. Are you telling us that there are no capable women in this province? That is the first thing. Secondly, since the DA has come to power, whether in the local municipality of Cape Town or the province, it has been on a purge to remove administrators that were appointed by the ANC. Are you choosing your own friends, DA? You must not throw stones when you live in a glass house. [Applause.]
The hon member also raised the issue of interventions. He is saying that there are pending interventions. We are going to come to the Western Cape. We are going to meet with the provincial government. I have had discussions with the leader of the DA, Madam Helen Zille. We have agreed that in this country there is no island. There is no structure that should believe that it can make a UDI. The Western Cape and the Cape Town municipality are part of the bigger South Africa. In that respect we have agreed that we will work together in partnership, as Mr Visser has said, which I appreciate, and we have agreed that in doing so, we are going to pursue the goals that must be pursued.
We shall work within the Constitution and within the laws. However, we are raising the issue of amending the Constitution. Let me tell you, in the area of local government, there is no doctrine in respect of the separation of powers. All powers are centred and vested in the council. It is the council that delegates to the executive committee or mayoral committee, and the mayoral committee delegates at that level. There is a blurring of lines of accountability and oversight, and we are saying that this situation cannot be allowed to continue. In addition to that, I have raised the issue that the NCOP has ghettoised the representation of local government, and if this House has to focus on issues of local government in the provinces, it means we have to amend the Constitution. It must be able to reflect that.
But also, going forward, if you look at the issue of the system, there are a lot of challenges. Amongst those are the challenges of alignment between national, provincial and local government, not only regarding the structure, but also as far as budgeting is concerned. The financial year of the national and provincial budgeting cycle ends in March. In the local municipalities it ends in June. The implication of that is that when provinces and national government are coming to the end of their financial year, they dump money in municipalities. We are saying we must align everything, including structures, in relation to local government. This requires the amendment of the Constitution.
Also, if you look at the issue of electricity, which is a national strategic area with regard to basic service delivery, it cannot be left to the whims of individual municipalities. These municipalities sometimes don't look at the broader interests of the country. They look myopically at their own areas of responsibility. That is why we support the amendment of the Constitution to ensure that we look at national priorities. Water and electricity are the most important ones. Nobody can disagree with that. Furthermore investment in infrastructure by municipalities over time has not been very good. This is why we are looking at different ways and mechanisms of dealing with these issues.
Therefore, from our point of view, Mr Watson, we support a constitutional amendment, because it is going to ensure that South Africa is placed where it belongs, at a place where it is the best of the best compared to other countries. That is what we believe in, and we support that very strongly. The other issue that is raised by the people's movement, the ANC, is the issue around the formula for the allocation of resources. We agree with that. In fact, we are engaging with the Financial and Fiscal Commission, FFC, to say we believe the formula for the allocation of resources, in relation to the division of revenue, is skewed. But in addition to that, with regard to its strategy, the ANC is biased towards the poor and the vulnerable. If you agree with this, then this must be reflected even in respect of the allocation of resources. The way the system is currently working is that it gives more resources to municipalities and provinces that are strong, and we believe that we should work to support the weak that cannot stand on their own. That is what we are calling for with regard to change. We agree with the movement in that respect, and we have said that we are going to support it as we go forward.
Also, we are raising an issue around voluntarism in the intergovernmental relations system. We support that. We are saying it must be dealt with, going forward.
With regard to the issue of the North West, we are going to engage with that, going forward.
In relation to the issue raised by Cope: We are saying on the issue of the establishment of municipalities, it's a matter we are engaging upon. We are looking at the formula, but I believe that the legislation dealing with local government must be section 76. Currently it is section 75, which I believe is a challenge. At the same time, my view on all section 75 laws is that it should be introduced in the NCOP. When such legislation goes to the NA, it should be a second process; it should not start in the NA. I think the NA must deal with section 75 pieces of legislation when they are introduced.
Concerning the issues that you have raised, Tata Makhubela, we will look at them. We will ensure that we attend to them, because we believe your contribution is quite important, going forward. We understand these are issues that bother you.
Mr Chaane, we are focusing on infrastructure. We are saying we cannot continue to deal with infrastructure the way we are dealing with it - we will never deliver, or even address the backlogs. We are introducing a comprehensive infrastructure plan that will look at the backlogs in every municipality, in every city, in every town in this country. And we believe that we must rope in the private sector, particularly when dealing with these issues in future. We agree on the topography of the issues. We have engaged with you on the issue of the Financial and Fiscal Commission formula that we have to look at. Let us work together.
You are raising an issue around traditional leadership and the support that is required. We are looking at ensuring that this area is a concurrent function. In terms of the formula, the FFC must actually ensure that money is given to provinces for traditional leaders as a way to take things forward. These are matters that we will be discussing with you, going forward. We agree with you that KwaZulu-Natal has a lot of challenges.
We want to thank you very much as a province, because you show a high degree of organisation and discipline in the way you conduct activities. That discipline is also demonstrated by your presence here in this debate. We also want to address the issue of MECs not participating in important debates in this House, because we believe that they are undermining this House by not attending. We are going to take that up. [Applause.] We will be taking up the issue with the Leader of Government Business to ensure that these matters are attended to, going forward, Deputy Chairperson.
At the same time, from our point of view, we want to call on everyone to ensure that we work together in such a way that we are able to move forward, because we believe that local government matters can be politicised. We must rise above politics so that we can actually address the issues that are affecting our people. We are saying that local government should be everybody's business, because whether we're at work or at home, everyone is affected. If your electricity doesn't work when you wake up in the morning and you don't have water, we become concerned. If the traffic lights are not working, we become concerned. Therefore, let us ensure that we work together. We will listen to the opposition. If you see things that are not going well in your own area, where you work, where you stay, take them up with the department. We'll be able to ensure that we take up these matters honestly without any bias in the way in which we deal with it, because we believe that together we can ensure that South Africa is a country, a place, where we will be happy to live and work.
Therefore collective wisdom is quite important, going forward, in addressing issues that must be taken up. As a department, we don't believe that we are a repository of wisdom. We believe that the wisdom is with the people, the wisdom is with you. Our task is to co-ordinate that wisdom. Our task is to direct what must be done. That is why we are here; that is why we are talking about a choir conductor, because we believe that a choir conductor is able to ensure that there is a harmonious melody in the way things are done. And we believe you, as the NCOP, are a partner. We must look at how to work together, going forward, in order to address these issues.
There is an issue around resource allocation. You know that the government was established after the Budget had been passed. We have agreed that by October the processes for the allocation of resources would be reflected and addressed. Therefore we are saying let us ensure that we deal with these issues while we are able to work together.
The other thing that we are going to do is that we are going to take all the speeches that have been presented here. It is unfortunate for those who have not prepared speeches, because it means we cannot refer to anything, except that we could actually check the Hansard, so that we are able to respond to each and every one who has made an input in this debate. We want to ensure that we take up issues and follow up on matters as we go forward. You see my team there, highly energised and highly motivated. Their morale is very high. They are there and ready to deliver.
I want to conclude by saying we are going to be working with the Deputy President when we embark on Taking Parliament to the People, to follow up on issues that are raised, even matters that are raised in the provinces and municipalities. The Deputy President will be following up with national departments regarding such issues, so that we are a responsive government. We will be moving in, Matungwane, to Matatiele to follow up on the issue that has been raised around correspondence. We are going there to go and test the views of the public, the views of the people. We are saying that we have listened to organisations, and they have not assisted us. The best thing to do is to go to the people. But in doing so, we will be working together. We will be doing the same in Matatiele, because we believe that we must actually address issues collectively. We don't believe in sweeping things under the carpet. We believe that we must confront every issue that has been raised, so that we are able to take the country forward, as we do our work as a country. I want to thank the committee for their incisive engagement with the department. I want to thank the officials for their support and engagement, and I also thank Macingwane for being here with us. We are saying your support is valuable and appreciated by us, and at the same time I want to thank the Deputy Minister for his support and his free-spirited approach on issues. He is a person who says what he thinks at any time. Continue with that free-spirited role that you are playing. Thank you very much, colleagues. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.