We must learn from the bad things that happened in the Soviet Union, since you are provoking me, but we must also learn from the good things of the Soviet Union. For instance, one positive lesson from the former socialist countries was that it was indeed possible to have full employment, free health, free education and even free transport for poor people. [Applause.]
However, that is not the point; let's not take the debate that way. We need our universities to teach different views and perspectives. We are battling at the moment. The kinds of economists, for instance, that are being produced by most of our universities can't even spell the word "developmental". Yet, we are saying we want a developmental state and we have to intervene, to see what our universities are doing to also assist us to produce the kind of graduate that is needed to fight poverty and unemployment in this country; and not only graduates, because many of those who flee do it because we train them at Empangeni and KwaDlangezwa as if we are training them for the New York Stock Exchange or the London Stock Exchange and not for the realities, Mr Mpontshane, which are facing, for instance, Empangeni and the rural areas.
You see, when I talk about this, I am reminded of Alvin Toffler's saying, or warning rather, "The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn and relearn." [Applause.]
I must thank the hon Fransman for his contributions and suggestions on things that we need to look into, especially the centrality of teacher development. We are working closely with Minister Motshekga to look into this. As we unfold things, we are actually going to be engaging the two portfolio committees, because as I have said, this is critical. And thanks also to you, chairperson of the portfolio committee, for all the positive remarks that you have made.
Let me just take the little time I have left - unfortunately, I would have liked to comment on many things - to respond to the hon Wilmot James, and also challenge, by saying let's have a debate. You see, at one level you are right that as things stand now, we do not have funds that are adequate to do some of the things that we want to do with the further education and training colleges. On the other hand, that's not correct. The problem is that from your approach, you are looking at FET colleges as some kind of glorified high schools or mini universities, where you're calculating the programmes only in terms of full-time equivalence.
We need to radically change the landscape of FET colleges. As far as I am concerned, FET colleges should operate seven days a week by presenting part- time courses over weekends for people who are working, responding to local needs with programmes and so on, and also with the linkages to the skills development infrastructure and funds that can be creatively tapped into in order to fund these programmes, legitimately so. That is why, amongst other things, we are saying we are going to talk to the sector education and training authorities, Setas, and seek an agreement and arrangement that we should actually be prioritising programmes through FET colleges.
It can't just be that most of that money is spent through private providers; we must build these public institutions. That's one more creative way of accessing money for FET colleges - through programmes - but that does not mean, as the hon Makhubela was saying, that we may not want to, say, go to Cabinet to ask for more money.
I also think in your approach to the Setas, hon James, there is a problem in the sense that your approach is problem driven rather than a strategic one. You can't say that because 18 or 19 of the Setas, for example, have problems, that they should be shut down. It is problem driven. If those Setas have a problem, tackle the problem, but as to the actual Seta landscape, it must be determined by our own strategic objectives, moving forward. [Applause.]
Angizwanga baba, ngiwayinda kuphi? Sisuke singaneli isikhathi lana sihlala engathi lezindaba kwesinye isikhathi singaze siyozixoxela noma kusesibayeni ukuze ukuwazi ukuthi kungabibikho umkhawulo. (Translation of IsiZulu paragraph follows.)
[Excuse me, sir, where do I press? The time that has been allocated here is not sufficient. Sometimes we wish we could go and discuss these issues in a place where time is not limited.]
Let me also say that I think Cope has done better today. [Laughter.] You have done much better, which shows that it's not been very long since you left the ANC. The teaching of lecturers, replenishing our academia, is a fundamental question that we will have to deal with because we've got ageing academics. Once more, let me thank everybody.
I am sorry, Mr Makhubela. Thanks, also, for the issues that you have raised, and to all the other members, I am looking forward to an ongoing relationship under our slogan, "Working together, we can do more." Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.