Hon Speaker, it's interesting to listen to the hon Magama and his concern about civilians, but I did not hear the ANC being concerned about the civilians when they were brutalised by Mugabe in Zimbabwe. [Interjections.]
Speaker, I think we all agree that the promotion and practise of good governance is definitely a means of advancing peace and security. But, surely, that can't be the full reply or full answer to the question, because if that was the case, we should look at which government in the world has the best governance and then ask them to rule the world - it doesn't work that way.
The hon Manamela spent some time talking about the Western and the Northern powers, but, once again, he also didn't say a single word about Zimbabwe and what's happening there - no concern, nothing. Protecting Zimbabwe once again. The problem is that maybe we differ in terms of what democracy means and, at some stage, we should talk about it.
The other problem is that if one person governs like Gaddafi over 99 others, then it is dictatorship and the world says it's wrong. If 10 people govern over 90 people, that is hypocrisy. That is also wrong. [Interjections.] Oh, please keep quiet!