Chairperson, I hope the hon Deputy President is not a member of Cosatu. [Interjections.] Hon members, Cope would like to state upfront that we support the need to have legislation which defends the right of our country to protect certain information. We believe that our country should be able to counter antidemocratic activities by hostile foreign countries. We believe that there should be legislation that enables our constitutional order to be protected.
We agree fully that the Protection of State Information Act, Act 84 of 1982, should be repealed, not only because it is an apartheid law but also because it is outdated. It is unfortunate that the Bill under discussion has been so controversial that it is difficult to separate perception from reality. A lot of posturing and manoeuvring took place during the campaigns for and against the Bill. It is interesting to note that the Department of State Security even ran an advertising campaign in the media to protect the original Bill as good, acceptable, and constitutional, when the department knew that was not the case. This activity was amazing and embarrassing, if you look at the Bill as it stands now. This attempt to fool the people of South Africa failed dismally.
The amendments made by the NCOP resulted in a far better Bill, which is less controversial. Cope doesn't understand why the ANC made such a hullabaloo and then went to the NCOP and became reasonable. Cope is aware that the compromises made by the ANC were not because, like Saul, they saw the light on the road to Damascus. It is clear that the role of civil society, opposition parties, and leaders like the former Minister of Intelligence Comrade Ronnie Kasrils assisted to ensure that the penny dropped for the ANC. The NCOP has done a good job in editing and amending the Bill to the point where the Bill is drastically improved with very small areas of disagreement.
In this regard, Cope congratulates the ANC members in the NCOP who, despite pressure from the Minister of State Security and his department, proceeded to include the amendments proposed by the DA and Cope. [Applause.] These amendments are not only a victory for the opposition but also a victory for the people of South Africa, including the members of the ANC whose objective views were suppressed by the party line. It is a victory for mass participation in the law-making process.
Whilst Cope appreciates the progressive amendments, we are still unable to support the Bill. This opposition is not merely opposing for the sake of opposing. Cope's fundamental commitment to defend the Constitution is at the core of its opposition to this Bill. For the sake of clarity, Cope has problems with clause 34(i)(a) under "Espionage and related offences" that deals with punishment - convicting accused to imprisonment for a period of not less than 15 years but not exceeding 25 year. Cope's problem is not the period of imprisonment. Our problem is that people will be imprisoned for not knowing what they ought reasonably to have known. It is very difficult for anybody to prove that they did know what they reasonably ought to have known. That is what the ANC is saying people have to prove. The second reason is because the public interest defence clause in this Bill is not appropriately captured. We accept that an attempt has been made to accommodate this with the inclusion of clause 41(c) of the Bill. The revelation of criminal activity does not equate to public interest.
If the ANC accepted these two issues and these amendments, Cope would fully support the Bill as it stands. Unfortunately, as things stand, Cope will not support the Bill. Hon Burgess stood up here and told you that this Bill is born again. We disagree. You don't have a clue of what born again means. This one is recycled. It is not born again. Please attend church, and then you will understand what born again means. [Laughter.] The question we have now is not whether or not Cosatu supports this Bill. It is whether or not hon Borman and hon Turok will now vote for this Bill. That should be the question the ANC asks itself. I thank you. [Applause.]