Chairperson, firstly, I think Mr Ryder is not dealing with the issue at hand; he is dealing with the Budget of the country as a whole instead of dealing with Budget Vote 7, which is a specific budget for National Treasury. He is dealing with a Budget as a whole, which is an issue that falls partly under the discussion on the Appropriations Bill today, and the issue that we dealt with in the House before we came here after 8 May 2019, on the fiscal framework. Perhaps because he is new, it is understandable, but strictly speaking ... [Interjections.] No, I don't mean to be rude or ... [Interjections.] But, we must deal with the budget of the department.
However, since you allowed him to speak on the Budget as a whole, the first thing I should make clear as I have done repeatedly ... [Interjections.] I did in fact say that this is an austere budget, but it is not austerity. Austerity requires in World Bank terms
privatisation, reduction of taxes and reducing the welfare state. So, I insist; I didn't deny it. It is an austere budget but it is not an austerity package! That's a big difference between the choices of words. And, I am very clear; there is nothing inconsistent about that.
On the matter of the state-owned entities, only a moment ago, Ms Mahlangu, the chairperson of Standing Committee on Appropriations says, "The ANC, no less, doesn't believe that the National Treasury should willy-nilly give money to the state-owned companies. The Minister and Deputy Minister, whom I might say should actually ideally be here. They are there in the National Assembly when the Appropriations Bill is dealt with.
They should actually be in the National Council of Provinces. This is something yourself, the chairperson and Mr [Inaudible.] have to look into. Why is it that the Minister and Deputy Minister are not here? On that Mr Ryder, I think you make a point and we leave it to your good office to look into it.
We are both equal - though complimentary - Houses. This is the most important thing we are looking at in the year. It is voting on the budget, one day before the deadline: Why is the Minister and Deputy
Minister not here? I understand they are out of the country, but please, could one of them at least not be here - the Deputy Minister, at least?
So, on the state-owned companies, just look at the SABC. I read in the Sunday Times - no less - on page 2, that the Minister has made it very clear - there is a letter that the Appropriations Committee chair has, which maybe she will make available to Mr Ryder, where it is very clear: They will give the money - the R3,7 billion or whatever it is; I may have the figure wrong - in tranches, only if they meet certain conditions. The conditions are very strict. We welcome that!
Even on Eskom, a chief restructuring office is about to be appointed. Eskom is not going to just get money, and so it should be. So, there is no difference between us, Mr Ryder. Ultimately, it is the Standing Committee on Appropriations Committee that must do its job - as it, in fact, is doing - in ensuring that when the National Treasury allocates money to state- owned companies, that it does so in a way that ensures that there are returns and value for money. We agree on that!
On the issue of ... I can't read my handwriting, I regret to say. As you get older ... [Laughter.] ... those of you who are younger might want to be careful, but I see the point that I've got here. However, in so far as Mr Ryder saying that there are issues that we have to monitor more effectively, we agree. In so far as he is saying that state-owned companies should not be offered government guarantees, which is not the same as bailouts, we do not agree!
Those state-owned companies are fundamental to a developmental state. Yes, we agree, we are partly responsible for its failures, but not solely responsible. We can't be held to account for the global economy going down. [Time expired.] Thank you, indeed. [Applause.]