On a point of order, House Chairperson. I want to ask whether DA has got only four white people [Inaudible.] where are the others?
Hon member, please take your seat, that's not a point of order. Hon member, take [Interjections.]
Okay, I'm just concerned, it looks like Minister Zulu needs medical attention.
Hon Hill-Lewis, now your time is running.
Alright. Minister Zulu needs some medical attention, someone help her.
Look, Madam Chair, this report ...
Order, hon members [Interjections.]
AN HON MEMBER: House Chairperson
I'm waiting for that one first, I'll recognise you.
Hon members, please let's.
Point of order, Chair.
I'm aware, hon Zulu. I just want our members to be in order.
Hon members!
Hon Zulu, I recognise you for your point of order. You can sit, hon Hill- Lewis.
Chairperson, I think he really needs to sit because it is unacceptable for the member to use that platform and say at that platform that I need medical attention.
Was ...
Yes.
Okay.
The member must explain what does he mean, I need medical attention. The member must withdraw because I don't, absolutely don't need no medical attention. What I need is respect from that young man, who I also respect by the way. So, he can't stand here and say that.
Okay, hon member. Thank you very much. I didn't hear that.
Hon Hill-Lewis please stand. Did you say that?
I did.
Hon Hill-Lewis, will you please withdraw.
I withdraw.
Thank you very much. Continue.
On a point of order, House Chair. I was saying that it can't be acceptable that if we react ... when people are misbehaving, that we should imitate them. Because then when we speak and try them, it's a question of the pot calling the kettle black. I don't see why they should disregard your orders. I just feel ashamed of that because these people who are trying chaos by breaking the quorum, let them do that but let's not mimic them. I don't that is really [Applause.] [Inaudible.]
Thank you. Hon Mazzone, are you still on? Okay, thank you. Hon Hill-Lewis.
Declarations of Vote:
Chairperson, this is a rather uncontroversial report that we have before us. It was agreed to - I think - unanimously, perhaps the EFF objected in the committee.
But it is a very good reflection on the committee's deliberations on the state of the National Treasury and the entities that report to it. And in the time that I have I just want to focus on three of them: the SA Revenue Service, Sars, the SA Reserve Bank, SARB, and the Public Investment Corporation, PIC.
Firstly, Sars has undergone a terrible last few years, with suffering the effects of state capture; because of politically motivated cadre deployment to the management of that institution. So, now we hear lots of ANC speakers bemoaning what has happened at Sars, forgetting that it happened on their and on their instruction.
But, nevertheless, Sars is now turning itself around and we have huge confidence in the ability of Commissioner Kieswetter to turn
that organisation around and restore it to the organisation of impeccable and unimpeachable integrity that it was just a few short years ago. It is a reminder of how quickly our democratic institutions can be destroyed by cadre deployment and how much we must protect them.
Secondly, the SA Reserve Bank has come under relentless attack from the ANC in its election manifesto and by the EFF, which has been pushing for the nationalisation of that bank and we are pleased that the committee has expressed its support for the independence of the reserve bank and the rejection of attempts to nationalise it. And I'm afraid I've run out of time.
Thank you very much. [Applause.]
House Chair, the EFF rejects the Standing Committee on Finance Budgetary Review and Recommendation, BRR, Report.
This afternoon, the Auditor-General, AG, just announced that irregular expenditure has increased to R62,6 billion.
It is the job of the Standing Committee on Finance to ensure that the Treasury and the Minister of Finance do their job to ensure that we do not see figures like we just saw this afternoon.
But reality is that Parliament has no capacity to properly do oversight over the Treasury and the Minister of Finance. Instead, the standing committee works like Minister's parliamentary desk.
We raised this in the Fifth Parliament. There's too much emphasis
... routine legislation, some rushed while misconduct, corruption and disregard for the law goes unnoticed.
Money was stolen during the implementation of the Integrated Financial Management, the famous IFMS; but no one has been arrested despite damning forensic report.
People were moved from Sars to Treasury by former Minister Pravin Gordhan without following any processes and were paid big salaries and they continue to get paid. People are appointed without following tender processes and we are told they are the only one qualified to do the work.
Katherine Gibson was appointed as the consultant and paraded here in Parliament as the public servant when she was not; and paid a lot of money just because of a personal relationship with one of the Deputy Director- General, DDG, Ismail Momoniat.
Some white consultant from London was appointed to write a report on transformation. To this day, people from Venda are still waiting for their pension which the Treasury said they must be paid, but the Treasury and the Minister refuse to pay. [Interjections.]
What we have here is the department that operates like it's above the law [Time expired.] Thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Chair, it's a tough pill to swallow when the AG finds errors at the department responsible for co- ordination of finances of all government departments. As the custodian of finance for the entire government, it must lead by example. It cannot be that preparations of performance reports and financial statements are done incorrectly and flagged by AG.
If we were to strive for excellence in financial management, it's best that we start with this department.
It baffles me that disregard for legislation was also cited by AG. If we were to encourage other to adhere to the Public Finance Management Act, PFMA, and the Municipal Financial Management Act, MFMA, yet the Department of Finance is still finding its feet and wrapping its head around its own legislation; then I believe our trying times will last a little longer.
The IFP hopes and believes that the Minister is able to walk his talk and we are confident that if finance works, all other department will get to work.
The IFP supports the report and will closely monitor the implementation of the recommendations made in this report. Thank you. [Applause.]
House Chair, this is an accurate report reflecting what is happening in National Treasury and with its entities and we support the observations and the recommendations, contained in this report. It is concerning that National Treasury and the entities themselves do not comply with laws and regulations and that is findings by the Auditor General. If one looks at the regression from previous financial year and the fact that very few of the entities and the department, themselves could obtain clean
audit. That is concerning as National Treasury is the department that should ensure that other departments and municipalities, especially our metropolitan municipalities comply with laws and regulations.
We need an effective revenue collector free from mismanagement. One thing that is an observation and recommendation in this report is the lack of an independent tax ombudsman. At this stage the tax ombudsman is dependent on the revenue collector on South African Revenue Service, SARS, for its budget and for everything it needs to do its work. That is an area that should be addressed by us, as the Legislature we shouldn't get independent tax ombudsman. It's completely unacceptable that, that is not the currently.
It's also unacceptable that it was allowed by the ANC-led government that institutions such as the Public Investment Co- operation were allowed to be looted, where there is mismanagement, where they were allowed to be exploited and we do welcome the actions now taken by the new PIC Board where there is action taken to recover the lost monies and that is welcomed. I thank you.
House Chair, the NFP welcomes the report of the Standing Committee on Finance tabled here today. Yes, indeed the
NFP will support the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report, BRRR, of Standing Committee tabled here. Whilst this National Treasury receives R29,7 billion, only managed to achieve 113 of the 139 performance targets. What is concerning is that this department which is the custodian of all funds has not achieved its performance target in financial accounting, particularly in the supply chain management, once again.
South African Revenue Service, SARS, only collected R1,287 trillion against an estimate of an estimate of R1,3 trillion. National Treasury and its entities with finance portfolio incurred R82 million in fruitless and wasteful expenditure. Irregular expenditure increased to R1 billion with National Treasury being the biggest contributor with R466 million and SARS R454 million, it's a disgrace that 53% of the finance portfolio had findings as a result of uncompetitive and unfair procurement, clearly as a bridge of the Public Finance Management Act.
Now, the integrated financial management system is still not being achieved, despite hundreds of millions of rands being spent on it and we believe that, that matter needs to be expedited. Now, the Auditor General is recommending consequence management despite amendments to the Auditor General and in terms of what is entitled
to do in terms of consequence management; it's not yielding any results.
There appears to be no oversight on National Treasury and that appears to be another challenge. My time is running out, the NFP supports this report, but we call for consequence management and ensure that the committee that is the Standing Committee in Appropriation receives report timeously on the action that is being taken, particularly with Treasury not complying with Public Finance Management Act. Thank you, we support.
IsiXhosa:
Sihlalo weNdlu, njengeKomiti eSisigxina yeSebe lezeMali yoHlaziyo loHlahlo lwabiwo-mali neziNdululo kunye namajelo alo kubaluleke kakhulu ekukhuseleni imeko yezemali eMzantsi Afrika. Isahluko se-13 kuMgaqo- siseko welizwe siyaligunyazisa isebe ukuba kungabikho mfihlo kwaye kuphendulwe ngempatho-mali efanelekileyo kuba zimali zabantu. Loo nto inyanzelisa ukuba kubekho impatho entle, konyuke uphuhliso, uqoqosho lubeluhle, norhulumento olungcono. Nangaphezulu kwezinto zonke, injongo kukuphucula umgangatho wokuphila wommi wonke waseMzantsi Afrika.
Ikhona indima ebonakalayo kwiziphakamiso zethutyana zikarhulumente kaGalel'ebhayini owavula umlomo wonke ubani kwatsho kwakhonya noomofu. [Kwahlekwa.] Siyaqhuba ngokululeka abathe baphosisa ukuze kukhule ukuwuthemba umbuso, kunyuke utyalo-mali noqoqosho lukhule. UKhongolose uyahlupheka kuba inkcitho engenaziqhamo yande ukusuka kuma-R71 million kunya-kamali odlulileyo yaya kuthi ga kuma- R82 million kulo nyaka-mali. Ingxenye yale nkcitho yenziwe apha esebeni nakwi-Arhente yeeNkonzo zeRhafu.
ISebe lezeMali kufanele ukuba liqaphele ukucuthwa kwamatyala ombuso ukuze alungelelane nemali eyenziwa ngurhulumente kwi-GDP. Enye indlela yokuhlumisa kukwakhiwa ngokutsha kwejelo lombane ukucutha umngcipheko oza no-Eskom kuqoqosho nakwindleko zoluntu ngokubanzi. Isebe lifuna ukuhlaziya nokukhulisa uqoqosho kuquka nokwakha ngokutsha amacandelo anamashishini karhulumente.
I-ANC ihlaba ikhwelo kubaphathiswa bamasebe nabo bonke abasemagunyeni kuquka iSebe lokuCeba, ukuPhonononga nokuVavanya ukuba badlale indima ebonakalayo kwaye baqinisekise nokuba iingcebiso zomphicothi-zincwadi ziyaphuhliswa. I-ANC iyayixhasa le ngxelo yeSebe lezeMali.
Question put.
Agreed to.
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