Hon Speaker, administered prices are set by a regulated framework instead of being determined by regular market forces of supply and demand.
The general principles and objectives of pricing policy require the relevant regulators, when setting prices and tariffs, firstly, to enable an efficient operation to recover the full cost of its licensed activities, including a reasonable margin of return; secondly, to provide for or prescribe incentives for continued improvement of the technical and economic efficiency with which services are to be provided; thirdly, to give end users proper information regarding the cost that their consumption imposes on the business; and, finally, to avoid undue discrimination between customer categories. This may permit the cross subsidy of tariffs to certain categories of customers, as well as managing inflationary pressures in the economy.
The various transport modes, namely airports, rail, roads and pipelines, vary considerably with respect to the extent of the economic regulation and the regulatory framework that are in place.
With respect to rail, there is no formal economic regulator. In this regard the Department of Public Enterprises acts as a quasi regulator through the Transnet shareholder compact.
With respect to ports, the Ports Regulator provides economic regulation for the ports system in terms of the National Ports Act, Act 12 of 2005.
The National Energy Regulator of South Africa, Nersa, provides economic regulation for the piped gas and petroleum pipeline industries in terms of the Gas Act, Act 48 of 2001 and the Petroleum Pipelines Act, Act 60 of 2003.
Electricity prices are regulated in terms of the Electricity Regulation Act, Act 4 of 2006, which is administered by Nersa. In regulating the electricity prices, Nersa has to consider the Electricity Pricing Policy of 2008, which was approved by the Cabinet. Eskom charges tariffs as approved by Nersa in line with the Electricity Regulation Act and the Electricity Pricing Policy. The tariffs applied must avoid undue discrimination, unless approved by Nersa. Therefore, Eskom does not have favourable tariffs for exported goods, except for the special agreement with BHP Billiton which is currently being reviewed by Nersa.
In the past, due to historical legacy issues, prices for export commodities were lower than those of manufactured goods. Prices were determined on the basis of the value of the goods. Transnet's current pricing strategy is being reviewed to address exactly those anomalies and they include pricing on the basis of the cost of providing the total service for a particular commodity, rather than pricing on the basis of its value. This was based on the import substitution policy that the government had adopted. Hence the economy could not accrue beneficiation from its mineral resources.
In 2012-13, Transnet established a port rebate of R1 billion for exporters ... [Time expired.]
Thank you, hon Minister. I look forward to reading that reply. It was very comprehensive and needs a bit of digestion. Let me say that there are two elements to my question. The first one is that successive governors of the Reserve Bank have talked about the impact of rising administrative prices on inflation. That is an important issue, but that is not the concern of my question. My question is rather addressed to the question of industrial policy.
I am very interested to hear that there are so many different bodies that are regulating administrative prices. It seems to me that that might be a problem. There are too many bodies, each one making its own levels of administrative prices, and there is not sufficient coherence across the state sector.
Therefore, I was wondering whether you could tell me whether you yourself, your Ministry and your department are able to do anything at all to introduce a greater degree of coherence in the whole policy of regulation so that administrative prices are seen, not merely as something internal to a particular body, but as something that affects national policy and the whole question of national development. We really do need to promote economic development across the whole sector. It seems to me that if we have silos, each one deciding its own level of administrative prices, this does not drive towards a coherent economic development policy. [Time expired.]
Hon Speaker, indeed the question of policy coherence in relation to the administered prices, as well as the regulatory bodies, is a critical factor. I know that the various policy departments are trying to address this.
In regard to the Department of Public Enterprises, issues of regulation don't fall within our portfolio, but we are trying in our own environment to address these challenges. For example, Transnet submitted to the Ports Regulator a proposal that would see port tariffs being set over the seven-year market demand strategy period, which would also result in a reduction in the export of containerised goods, whilst increasing tariffs on the exportation of bulk. The Ports Regulator opted instead for a decision which would indeed see the containerised goods exportation tariffs being reduced and the maintaining of the exportation of bulk at the level where it is. This would assist to promote industrialisation in order to give incentives, in addition to the ports rebate that was announced last year, to the manufacturing sector so that they see a reduction in the tariffs for the exportation of manufactured goods.
In this regard, we are trying also to respond to the comparisons between the export tariffs for bulk and containerised goods in South Africa in relation to the global trends. Thank you.
Mr Speaker, Minister, port prices differ within the jurisdiction, and even in the same port and port system. However, it cannot be denied that in various elements South African port charges are the highest in the world. This has resulted in South Africa's simply being bypassed as a gateway to Africa in favour of the cheaper port costs in Angola, Mozambique and Kenya.
Can the Minister please indicate what plans are in place to make South Africa the gateway to Africa again? And what plans are in place to ensure that South Africa attracts more ships to our dry docks for repair, as this would result in massive job creation? Can the Minister also tell me whether or not he agrees with the need for a single transport development regulator to consider roads, ports and air travel, so that all these costs are regulated by a single regulator?
Lastly, could the Minister also please confirm that no bonuses will be paid to any Eskom or Transnet top management in the light of their request to the South African public to pay unaffordable tariff increases? [Interjections.]
Hon Speaker, as I indicated in my earlier response, the port charges in South Africa for bulk are among the lowest in the world. For example, the coal export charges are 17% below the global trends. Where our port charges are considerably higher is for containerised goods. That is the issue that I mentioned earlier in my response and that we are addressing in response to the request by Transnet, as well as to the decision by the Ports Regulator.
Secondly, the challenge in South Africa is that, compared to many other ports in the world which are subsidised by the fiscus, South African ports do not receive a fiscal subsidy. In that regard, Transnet is required to raise its revenue from the port charges from the users. It's an issue that we certainly need to address and I would welcome opinions from various players, because we have a responsibility not only to maintain the quality of the services at our ports, but also to improve them. Certainly the services at our ports, as well as the infrastructure, need to be improved and somebody has to pay for that.
In so far as the single transport economic regulator is concerned, it is a matter that is beyond our control, whether we like it or not. The Department of Transport is developing that. It is a very complex matter to deal with. We are looking forward to the proposals that will emerge from the Department of Transport in so far as that is concerned. It is not going to be easy at all.
In regard to the bonuses of the executives, I will not deal with that because it bears no relevance to the question which I was asked by hon Turok. Thank you.
Mr Speaker, the hon Ben Turok in subsection (3) of his question asked a very pertinent question - whether state enterprises should generate a profit over and above their need to build legitimate reserves or to break even. The point is that the Minister was very vague in replying to that question.
Why is it important to reply to that? Unfortunately, if you break even or if you are there to make profit you must keep your CEOs' salaries and bonuses in place, and you cannot duck and dive this afternoon with regard to that. Minister, you have appointed a committee and you will investigate that. When can we see that report with regard to CEO salaries and bonuses coming from your Ministry?
Hon Speaker, the issue of the remuneration packages and bonuses does not fall within the realm of the question that I was asked, but let me respond to the question of the profits and dividends. First and foremost, the government has not been claiming the dividends from state-owned companies, which are from the revenue generated from their operations.
Furthermore, the issue, hon Koornhof, is that the question hon Turok asked was long and comprehensive. It required an extensive response and, as you will have noticed, my time lapsed before I could respond to everything that was asked.
Therefore, let me say, notwithstanding that, that in conducting their businesses, Eskom, Transnet, Transnet National Ports Authority and Transnet Pipelines do generate surpluses, for which there are provisions by the relevant regulators, in line with the applicable policies and Acts. These provisions require the regulators to allow for full cost recovery for activities, plus a predetermined margin of return.
In practice the state-owned companies are focused on generating only sufficient retained earnings to pay for their ambitious bill programmes without overburdening the industry and consumers. For example, Eskom chose to apply for a 16% tariff increase for the year 2012-13, despite having a regulatory right to a 25% increase, so as to mediate the economic pressures created by the continued global financial crisis. No dividends are declared by any of the state-owned companies in the Department of Public Enterprises portfolio, as all retained earnings are reinvested in the bill programme.
As I indicated earlier, to date the fiscus has not supported state-owned companies except through government guarantees which allow the state-owned companies to raise capital in the financial markets, which they need to pay back anyway. So, there is no equity injection ... [Time expired.]
Hon Speaker, hon Minister, even if there are such mechanisms and policies in place, the point is that the administrative prices are just too high. They are higher than inflation every year and they are a drag on economic growth. What is your department doing to ensure that administrative price increases remain on par with inflation? Thank you.
Hon Speaker, it would seem to me that the hon member prepared this question prior to my response, and has not been listening to what I have been saying!
Notwithstanding that, let me say that my department is doing something about this. We have supported Transnet's application. We are engaging with various stakeholders, particularly the policy departments, in regard to addressing the challenges that have been raised.
The state-owned companies face a particular challenge, namely that they must expand capacity in a context where they do not receive any equity injection from anywhere else. This means that they must generate the revenue themselves to expand infrastructure capacity. Somebody has to pay for this.
This is a conundrum that we are trying to address and to balance. So far we have established a task team with the Department of Trade and Industry and the Transnet National Ports Authority, for example, to develop a detailed investment promotion strategy for infant port industrial sectors such as oil and gas, and boat building. It is expected that this task team will release its initial strategy for stakeholder consultation towards the end of the second quarter.
We have been very active as the shareholder in assisting the state-owned companies to traverse this very complex road, where they need to expand capacity, but at the same time need to generate revenue for reinvestment in infrastructure through charging the users. It is not an easy thing to do, but we are doing our best, within the limits of our capabilities, to do something to reduce the administered prices.
Amounts spent on residences of former Presidents of the Republic
174. Ms A M Dreyer (DA) asked the Minister of Public Works:
With reference to his reply to question 166 for written reply on 22 March 2013, how much did his department spend in 2012 on the residences of former Presidents of the Republic of South Africa that have been declared National Key Points? NO1568E
Hon Speaker, for the same reasons that were given on similar matters before, which were security matters, we cannot divulge information related to security unless it is provided in an appropriate forum, which we have suggested before and which will deal with security matters. [Interjections.] We are not against being held accountable, but it must be in the right forum, taking into account sensitivities related to security considerations. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, regardless of the Minister's response, we know that the public paid R206 million for security upgrades at President Zuma's private home. We also know that when former President Mbeki left office, he had received a R3,5 million upgrade to his private home. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Order!
This massive inflation of costs points to fraud and corruption and the public has the right to know.
In a letter to Parliament, the senior legal advisor recommends that those parts of the Nkandla report by the Department of Public Works task team dealing with the President's security, such as the architectural plans of his house, could be expunged from the report and that the rest of the report should be referred to the Portfolio Committee on Public Works, which sits in the open. Yesterday in Parliament, Deputy Minister Cronin supported this recommendation when he said that it was not problematic to disclose aspects of the report relating to Public Works' role in the controversial upgrade.
Minister, when will you implement the legal advice, support your deputy, and send those parts of the report that deal with Public Works' role to the portfolio committee which sits in the open? [Time expired.] [Applause.]
I stand by what we proposed and there is a process which has been proposed to this Parliament on how to deal with that report. We can only take the issues from that particular point. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, the Minister paid R206 million for the security upgrades. I want to know, seeing that that amount was spent, how many RDP homes he thinks the Department of Public Works could have built for the amount of public money spent on the upgrading of the palace at Nkandla. Is it perhaps 2 000 or 2 200 RDP homes? How many could have been built?
That shows, Mr Speaker, the confusion of the member. He does not even know what he is trying to ask. The Department of Public Works does not deal with the building of RDP houses. Thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, the hon Minister, in a previous reply to the hon Lekota, indicated that money expended on the homes of former Presidents since 1994 was guided by a consistent approach. He then indicated that there would be an evaluation by the Security Cluster that would be based on the findings of the threat analysis done.
Now we would like to know this. If such an imminent threat exists for the President of the country, what is the department planning to do to upgrade the security of the Deputy President's home, who on occasion has to act as the head of state when President Zuma is out of the country? If such an imminent threat exists for the family and the home of the President, then surely that should affect those acting in that capacity as well. Does his department plan any similar roll-out of security upgrades to the hon Deputy President's home? Thank you.
Hon Speaker, if such a task for us to implement comes from those who are responsible for that assessment, we will implement that. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, Minister, in terms of the section in the Ministerial Handbook on responsibility for general maintenance, renovations and upgrading of private residences of former Presidents of the Republic, could the Minister give the assurance that, as far as he is aware, everything that has been approved and carried out at such residences is in line with the Joint Cabinet Memorandum No 10 of August 2003, as it relates to the security risk assessment arrangements for the residences of former Presidents, which does not exempt security installation projects from the requirements of the Public Finance Management Act, Act 1 of 1999? Thank you.
Hon Speaker, we use various policies and various decisions, and not just the handbook. There are a number of decisions that we are using here. However, you will notice that in the preliminary report in relation to Nkandla that we released, we talked about further investigations by the Auditor-General, a process that we are seized with, and the Special Investigating Unit as well. This is because the intention was to say that we must comply with the Public Finance Management Act. So all of us must be accountable. We are using all those policy instruments, but we must also ensure that everybody complies with them.
Socioeconomic impact on Umvezo of bridge built over Umbhashe River
149. Nkosi Z M D Mandela (ANC) asked the Minister of Rural Development and Land Reform:
What is his assessment of the socioeconomic impact on Umvezo and its surroundings after his department built a bridge over the Umbhashe River near Umvezo? NO1525E
Hon Speaker, the impact areas that have been measured to date include the following: job creation and poverty reduction; improved potential for tourism in the area; improvement of rural livelihoods; improved access to economic activities; improved access to public transport; skills development through the Expanded Public Works Programme on-the-job training; increased agricultural production; improvement of access to social services such as schools, clinics and hospitals; and to contribution to the heritage of the area.
These are the areas that were identified when we conducted the preliminary impact assessment in the areas that are joined by the bridge: Ludondolo in Dutywa and Mvezo in the King Sabata Dalindyebo Local Municipality in the O R Tambo District Municipality.
People think that the construction of the bridge, very importantly, cuts the time that it would take them to travel from Mvezo to Dutywa by 30 minutes. Also, at the moment they pay R57 when they go to Dutywa. This bridge will cut the cost by R30. We think that it's going to have a very big impact. Yesterday I listened carefully to the chief when he was outlining the benefits to the communities there. Thank you very much.
Enkosi Xhamela. [Thank you, Xhamela.] Hon Speaker, since the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform acts as a catalyst for other departments, what other projects or services has it overseen in the area of Mvezo and Ludondolo? Thank you.
Hon Speaker, the department of agriculture and rural development in the province has already allocated a tractor there. Also, the fields along the Mbashe River have been ploughed and fenced off.
We think that the villages along that river will benefit a lot. This is because, in our discussions with the chief and the community, we think that from our side we should provide them with infrastructure for irrigation. That will bring about a huge change in regard to the capacity of those fields to produce food.
Lastly, we are in discussion with, for example, the MEC for health in the Eastern Cape. We are looking at building a state of the art clinic between the two villages. Remember that Mvezo is a heritage site and a lot of traffic will probably be going through Ludondolo to Mvezo. Anything is possible, so we think we need to look at that together with the MEC. Thank you. [Applause.]
Speaker, I would like to thank the Minister for his reply. According to Statistics SA, Mbashe Local Municipality has a population of 254 909; there is a high unemployment rate of 42,4%; more than 80% of households are without sanitation and clean running water; and more than 50% of households have no electricity connection. I want to know why the Minister and his department only constructed a bridge and did not roll out the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme there in order to improve the lives of the entire rural community of Mvezo. Thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, the hon member is correct. However, in one of the villages, the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries has constructed an agri park. If you go there, you will see the park. The only outstanding thing now is a machine to process the vegetables. This year we will complete this project. We built it a little while ago, but we are going to complete it now. We are now focusing on making sure that all communities are part of the massive agricultural production that is taking place there.
So, when we consider jobs in the area, we are considering them in an orthodox way, but when you consider jobs in terms of the production of the people who are self-employed in those projects, it is a different ball game. Statistics South Africa and the Presidency, between the years 2007-08 and 2008-09, posed this question because, according to them, there had been exponential growth. Do you know why? It was like that because of the production of the people there in the villages.
So those statistics are true, but we think that the province also has a responsibility in that regard, as much as we ourselves have. We will do the best we can to deal with the problems. The member is right. Thank you.
Chairperson, I must thank the hon Minister for the response that he gave following the question from Nkosi Mandela. With regard to any study that has been conducted on other bridges elsewhere, my main focus is to ask the Minister if a study has been conducted on building bridges where you find people swimming across rivers and, as a result, some of them being washed away by heavy floods. Thank you.
Hon Chair, I know that the hon member will probably be thinking about a particular example.
We are building low water bridges in a couple of places. Two months ago I visited Msinga because I was looking at the progress we are making with the Tugela Ferry irrigation scheme. I was looking for exactly that type of bridge being built by the province. I found out that the province is building what I could describe as a temporary bridge. They have started building something there.
The reason I went to see that bridge is because we intend building a big strong bridge that will actually do the job permanently there. That's one big bridge that we think we will build. There could be others, but we are looking at that one in the meantime, because it is a problem there, as much as it was a problem in Mbashe. Thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, Hon Minister, we appreciate the introduction and implementation of a major project such as that of the size of the Mbashe River bridge near Mvezo, for its potential to address the problem of unemployment and the possible transfer of skills to the community. However, we would like to know what the government's national roll-out plan is for major projects such as the one in the Eastern Cape. Where are other similar projects envisaged? When will they be rolled out? Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Hon Chair, in the policy speech on Friday we outlined a couple of other areas where we will do such work, particularly irrigation schemes.
If I may talk about the Eastern Cape, I am sure that the hon member will be aware that there is a big irrigation scheme in Keiskammahoek. Also, there are two dairy parlours that we built there. One was built last year, which we opened in December. Working with Amadlelo Agri, we provided money to build that infrastructure. I am talking about that big object that we see there!
As part of the Presidential Infrastructure Co-ordinating Commission, we are looking at being part of the Wild Coast toll road, cutting through Pondoland. This is part of our work. That is why we went there last month, to get an agreement. We will be part of that.
Let me refer to elsewhere across the country. In Limpopo we are going to do one other thing. Let me put it this way: If you were to go to Ha-Masia now, you would see a big structure that we are building there. It is a cultural centre. However, it is going to be more than that. I am in discussion with my colleagues from the Department of Arts and Culture and the Department of Sport and Recreation in this regard. We will go there again during this recess to make sure that it does happen.
The same thing applies to Mkhondo in Mpumalanga. In Mpumalanga there is a place called Donkerhoek, which is a very deep rural area. We are already building roads there using young people. Those roads are paved and not tarred. So it is a massive project that we have there, relatively speaking. It has a low water bridge and so on.
We are doing a couple of these things across the country. In the Free State there is Jacobsdal. We did mention Jacobsdal in the speech. We are also going to Abaqulusi and Emadlangeni. We have already sent youngsters ... [Time expired.] Thank you. [Applause.]
Steps to develop poor communities around mines in rural areas
150. Ms H F Matlanyane (ANC) asked the Minister of Mineral Resources:
What steps has she taken to ensure that mining companies develop the poor communities around the mines in rural areas in accordance with the Mining Charter? NO1527E
Madam Chair, we welcome the question asked by hon Matlanyane. Section 2.1 of the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act, Act 28 of 2002, provides for the holder of mining and production rights to contribute to the socioeconomic development of areas in which they are operating. The contributions are made by the mining companies in terms of the provisions of the Mining Charter, in accordance with the requirements of the social and labour plans, SLPs.
One of the key elements of the SLPs is a local economic development programme which contributes to mine community development. The LED programme must include, among others: the social and economic background of the areas in which the mine operates; the key economic areas; and the impact that the mine will have in the local and labour-sending communities. In addition, there are also the infrastructure and poverty eradication projects that the mine will support, in line with the integrated development plans, IDPs, of the areas in which the mine operates, as well as the major labour-sending areas.
In addition to all of this, the department has also published guidelines that will assist companies in drafting credible SLPs that will address section 2.1 in regard to the issues mentioned above.
Lastly, in regard to compliance, in order to ensure that the holder of the mining rights is contributing to the socioeconomic development of the areas, the following need to be adhered to: The Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act provides for routine inspections to be conducted by officials; the charter needs to be reviewed every time; and, lastly, the mining companies must also report on annually the progress they are making in connection with the provisions of the law. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Hon House Chairperson, I want to thank the Deputy Minister for his response. Many of the mineworkers receive their cash incentives as a subsidy ...
Hon Chairperson, I rise on a point of order: Hon Matlanyane was not accorded the opportunity to ask a follow-up question. Hon colleague, could she please be accorded the opportunity?
Can the hon Matlanyane please take the floor? [Applause.]
Thank you, hon Chairperson. Since the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act is going to be reviewed, may I ask the hon Deputy Minister whether this will entail possible changes, like the application of sanctions, to ensure compliance with the components of the Mining Charter by mining companies that do not abide by the social and labour plans? Thank you.
Hon member, the answer is yes, because we do review documents. First of all, there was the charter process, which we did in 2009, and we actually came back with a revised charter that deals with some of the issues that you are raising. That was implemented from 2010. In order to improve issues, we are reviewing all the time, or as the need arises. The officials meet at quarterly intervals to look into the alignment of all the processes of the SLPs and their impact on communities. We also deal with best practice in order to resolve some of the matters.
Currently there is the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Amendment Bill. The Act is being amended to provide for SLP sections to be amended. The intention is to strengthen the quality of consultation on SLPs.
Clearly, if we see continuous noncompliance, then that will also impact on the licences that we give to mining companies. We are confident that this matter is receiving urgent attention. You will understand that communities have raised this matter as there have been a lot of inconsistencies in the mining applications. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
House Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister, there is an argument every now and again that the conditions in which mineworkers live, particularly around the mines, are not acceptable for human occupation. Some mining houses would then argue that, as part of the packages that they are paying the mineworkers, a housing incentive is included. You will find that the money for housing incentives is being used by miners to build houses at home, while they are not building adequate houses for themselves around where they are working. Isn't that on its own a perversion of the incentive scheme? What solutions can be applied to solve that problem in order to ensure that mining companies and the workers are in compliance with the directives of tax incentives?
Chairperson, the hon member will remember that when we passed the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act in 2002, there was a programme that kicked in in 2004. In 2004 we drew up for ourselves a 10-year programme to ensure that living conditions, particularly of mineworkers, were improved, that we eliminated the hostel system, and that mining companies would build houses, where appropriate, for mineworkers. That was a 10-year programme. We do not expect that there will be any single-sex hostels in 2014, and we expect that housing will improve. I must say to the hon member that a lot of that has happened in some companies. There are companies that are lagging behind, but the deadline is very firm. The date, 1 May 2014, is the final date by which this should be implemented.
With regard to the issue of housing incentives, this is a matter that surfaced especially when we looked into the areas of Rustenburg and Marikana, where the mining companies have implemented some of these incentives whilst knowing that they are supposed to be providing decent accommodation for mineworkers. We will not relent on this question and this is a matter that we take very seriously. The mining companies know that the law provides for them, as part of their licence conditions, to ensure that they provide decent living conditions to mine workers.
With regard to other working conditions of mineworkers, I think that we as Parliament have taken steps on this, and the Presidential Package is also looking into this comprehensively. I am confident that we will turn this around. We have some time to look into what needs to be done. Thank you very much, hon member. [Applause.]
Hon Chairperson, the section of the Mining Charter that deals with this is section 2.6. It says that mines should make, in its words, "a meaningful contribution to community development". The lack of clarity of these words is frequently mentioned as a disincentive to investment. Can the Deputy Minister tell us how this "meaningful contribution" is measured, and how the department can guard against the imprecision of this provision, meaning that it is applied unevenly?
Hon Chairperson, we do give guidelines to mining companies in regard to the development of SLPs in order for them to be in line with local economic development and the IDPs of the municipalities where they are operating. There are clear guidelines and, as we review the Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Act, we are also strengthening that part. What we have been saying to companies is that they must review their SLPs every five years to ensure that they have an impact on communities.
I am a witness to the fact that there are areas where you can go right now and where you will see clear improvements in the towns and municipalities due to contributions by mining companies. As I said, there are those that are lagging behind, and we meet with them from time to time. Our officials meet at quarterly intervals and conduct inspections at the mines to ensure compliance.
Hon member, that part that you were reading is not about the expansion and the guidelines that we give to mines from time to time. We are satisfied that the guidelines are very clear. We are improving from time to time, and work is happening on the ground. Thank you very much.
Chairperson, thank you very much, hon Deputy Minister. The first part of my question has been answered, but we also want to know from the hon Deputy Minister what the charter envisages to ensure that promoters of the projects are allowed to develop in ways that are consistent with the community's own vision, taking into account that the same community values will be challenged by the intense social changes brought about by mining operations, and the potential influx of people from neighbouring countries, African countries and others. Thank you.
Hon Chairperson, I must confess that the hon member has asked a very broad question, but the guidelines that are given are in line with the IDPs of the surrounding communities and municipalities and of their local economic development plans. They are what guides the IDPs and that is the guidance that we are giving in terms of interaction with stakeholders, which are the mining industries, the communities and the municipalities. That is the best way to deal with it.
In regard to the influx of people who are coming from neighbouring communities or countries, mining operations do invite people to come, because that is where jobs are created, where the economic opportunities are, where the procurement opportunities are, and so forth. Therefore, noting the unemployment that we have in our country and elsewhere, it is not surprising that you will see people coming to look for greener pastures. Thank you, Madam Chair. [Applause.]
Hon Chair, although we acknowledge the responsibility of the mining companies to contribute in accordance with the social and labour plans in terms of the Mining Charter, it is important to note that the mining sector contributes approximately 8% of the national GDP. Many billions of rands are paid to government in taxes, royalties, fees and other charges in fulfilment of that particular responsibility.
Hon Deputy Minister, the question is what steps you are taking to ensure that the ANC government at the local, provincial and national levels is fulfilling its duties towards the receiving and labour-sending mining communities in regard to water, electricity, sewerage reticulation and the health sector. Also, what is it doing to contribute to uplifting those mining communities, where the responsibility should be co-shared with the mining sector? Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Should I proceed, Chair?
Deputy Minister, you may go ahead.
Chairperson, I think the hon member must appreciate that we do recognise the contribution made by the mining industry to the economy of our country and by the taxes that they are paying. We recognise that. However, he should also recognise that most of them are making massive profits out of this country as well. So, as we try to balance this and say that mining companies are making their contribution and that government must also play its role, we must not detract from that fact.
The mining companies have not complained to us about taxes because the taxes are comparable with taxes elsewhere. This is not a major concern that has been raised. Government has played its role in regard to water provision, and the statistics are very impressive. The ANC-led government has done better than any other government before in this country with regard to the provision of water, electricity and the services that the hon member has talked about. We do do what we are expected to do, and the record is there for you to see. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Programmes to uplift farm workers
185. Mrs A Steyn (DA) asked the Minister of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries:
(a) What programmes did she put in place to uplift farmworkers in each province and (b) how did these programmes improve the lives of farm workers? NO1581E
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon Chairperson, the Department of Agriculture, Forestry and Fisheries co-ordinated and is implementing the resolutions of the National Farm Workers Summit of 2010 on vulnerable workers.
The National Vulnerable Workers Delivery Forum, which is a task team working on the conditions of service of vulnerable workers, security of tenure, empowerment and training, and social determinants of service delivery to farm workers, has been convened. The training layoff schemes of the Department of Labour are working very well. The retraining of agriculture farm workers as well as vulnerable workers, through AgriSETA, is also progressing well.
In 2008 the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform established a Land Rights Management Facility which provides services to farm dwellers and labour tenants, and it continues to be one of the interventions of the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform's programmes to support vulnerable workers and farm workers.
A call centre and a toll-free number are there for farm workers to report illegal evictions from farms. This toll-free number has been working very well. Line-function Setas continue to play a meaningful role in the development and capacity of vulnerable workers. The Deputy President's series of dialogues with farm workers and farmers is slowly progressing very well to bring together, and to have coherence between, farm workers and farmers. I thank you.
Chairperson, Minister, thank you for that answer. I asked you the exact same question as a written question in June last year, and I received the exact same answer!
The problem is, given the facts that the department actually set up a Vulnerable Workers Task Team, the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform is doing what they have been doing since 2009, this department gave the Black Association of the Wine and Spirit Industry, Bawsi, R4,1 million in October 2012, and the head of Bawsi was the leading figure of the farm worker strike that took place only three weeks after this funding was given by the department, how did the Minister not then indirectly fund this strike? If your department has done nothing since 2010 when you had the farm worker summit, and actually funded only one NGO, namely Bawsi, three weeks before the strike ... [Time expired.]
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Chairperson, the same question has been asked since June last year. The hon member is still stuck and she will continue with this type of question until May next year. So this stuck record, hon members, you will hear until May next year. Unfortunately, the member doesn't have the capacity to move beyond this question. She will continue getting the same answer until May next year.
Chairperson, on a point of order: The Minister is casting aspersions on the integrity of the hon member by saying that she lacks capacity and I would like that to be withdrawn, please.
Hon Kalyan, I don't think that is a point of order.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Chairperson, the member herself emphasised that she has been asking this question since June last year. The money which has been given to farm worker organisations and NGOs will continue to be given, because the Western Cape has failed since 2009 to do anything for farm workers. Since you have such good information, maybe you can find out through your sinister and devious means who else has been funded. I thank you.
Chairperson, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary for the Minister to accuse hon Steyn of using "sinister and devious" methods? I think that remark is casting aspersions on the integrity of a member of this House and it should be withdrawn.
I don't think that is a point of order ... [Interjections.] ... and I don't think that there are any aspersions cast. [Interjections.] There are five members who wish to ask supplementary questions ...
Madam Chairperson, on a point of order ...
... and may I give you their names ...
Madam, I am addressing you on a point of order. [Interjections.]
... hon Kganare, hon Cebekhulu, hon Ndebele, hon Twala and hon Bhanga. [Interjections.] The hon Kganare should please take the floor. [Interjections.] Yes, Mrs Kalyan?
Chairperson, on a point of order: Two of us have addressed you on the use of unparliamentary language in terms of Rule 63. On both occasions you have just given your personal opinion. Madam, I submit that that is incorrect and I ask you to review your decision. The use of unparliamentary language and casting aspersions on the integrity of a member is what I am referring to.
Chairperson, on a point of order: The presiding officer has ruled and the member says it is an opinion. She expresses her opinion and she wants her opinion to be substituted for the opinion of the presiding officer. I think that is out of order.
Chairperson, on a point of order: When the Minister was responding, hon Ollis there pointed up a middle finger. Is it parliamentary to do that?
Hon member, that is not a point of order. Please sit down. [Laughter.] Can we get on with the debate because, as it is, it is a matter of my opinion and your opinion? At the moment, I happen to be in this Chair and I am saying that those two points are not points of order. [Interjections.] Can we get on with the debate?
Madam, may I address you?
Please, Mrs Kalyan, sit down. Hon Kganare, can you please put your question?
Hon Chair, it is Bhanga. I pressed the wrong button.
All right.
It is Bhanga. It is Bhanga. I pressed the wrong button, for Mr Kganare.
Oh, goodness. Then you are right down at the bottom. You will have to wait your turn. [Laughter.] I now ask hon Cebekhulu to take the floor, or did he also press the wrong button?
Thank you, House Chair. Minister, thank you for the responses you gave. If I may ask, hon Minister, how much money was spent by the department on supporting farm workers during the recent strikes, and what impact did the assistance have on the development of the local economy? The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon member, when I have those figures I will be able to supply them. Thank you. [Interjections.]
Hon chairperson, may I please just request the following. There was really a slip. Hon Bhanga pressed hon Kganare's button. Can you please just allow him to pose his question?
I didn't say that I would not. I said that he would have to await his turn now. He will just have to await his turn. I call the hon Ndebele. Sorry, can the hon Bhanga put his question?
Hon Chair, I thank the Minister. After 20 years of freedom, the lives of the farm workers continue to be the same. Is the solution of the ANC to a better life for the families in the farming community a call centre?
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Chairperson, now that the hon member has found his hon button, I think I will be able to press the right buttons and say that a better life for all on farms was not achieved overnight, but has been worked on consistently. Thank you.
Order! Can the hon Ndebele please put his supplementary question? [Interjections.] Apparently, that button was also wrongly pressed. I call upon the hon Twala.
Thank you, Chairperson. Outside the sectoral determination, can the Minister outline to this august House any socioeconomic programmes like housing, education and health as part of a holistic approach to bettering the lives of our vulnerable workers? Thank you.
The MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE, FORESTRY AND FISHERIES: Hon Chairperson, I thank the hon member. Yes, we would like to work towards collective bargaining for farm workers, and a number of farmer organisations, including AgriSA, have been engaged in working towards a system of collective bargaining. We believe that when we eventually have collective bargaining for farm workers there will be a better wage or labour dispensation as well as better conditions of service for farm workers.
In the meantime, with sectoral determination and work with the Minister of Labour, we have been able to see consistent and significant progress. Sustainable progress in the lives of vulnerable workers will come through service delivery, or in the form of socioeconomic development.
With the Department of Rural Development and Land Reform and our programmes on intervention into the rural economy, we have been able to be united in action towards socioeconomic freedom. [Time expired.] I thank you.
Order! Are there any further supplementary questions? Oh, I believe that only four are allowed and we have had the four, despite all the buttons being pushed wrongly!
I come now to Question 189, which has been asked by the hon P D Mbhele and put to the Minister of Mineral Resources.
Hon Chairperson, I would just like to indicate that hon Mr P D Mbhele is not here today, but hon Mr B M Bhanga will stand in for him.
Mitigation of damage caused by job losses in mining industry
189. Mr P D Mbhele (Cope) asked the Minister of Mineral Resources:
Whether her department has taken any steps to mitigate the potential damage caused by the shedding of jobs in the mining industry; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details?