Hon Speaker, hon members and our special guests in the gallery, it is a great pleasure for me to address this House on the Further Education and Training Colleges Amendment Bill.
I want to thank the members of the portfolio committee, led by the chairperson, Mr Malale, for their patience and understanding during the public hearings, and also for allowing space to introduce this amendment during this parliamentary cycle.
Mr Speaker, the Further Education and Training Colleges Amendment Bill is another step towards developing the Higher Education and Training legislative framework into a system that addresses the needs of adult postschool education in a more coherent manner.
The amendment is in line with the perspectives outlined in the Green Paper for Postschool Education and Training, which seeks to confront the many challenges facing youth and adults postschool, and which includes the necessity to expand postschool provision to improve access, strengthen the institutions to improve quality, and set out a vision for a more articulated and co-ordinated postschool education and training system.
Hon Speaker and members, the primary aim of this Bill is to do three main things. Firstly, it is to redefine what has normally been referred to as Further Education and Training colleges as vocational colleges, which underlines the necessity to train for the workplace, as well as to train responsible citizens. It also introduces, over and above these vocational colleges, a new college type which transforms Adult Basic Education and Training centres into Community Education and Training colleges. Both these colleges will offer NQF levels 1 to 4, with the FET colleges - the new vocational colleges - offering up to level 5. This is very important in regard to expanding postschool education and training opportunities for our youth and adults.
This Bill also introduces a very important institute called the South African Institute for Vocational and Continuing Education and Training. The aims of this institute will essentially be, amongst other things, to conduct research, provide support, and facilitate the training of college lecturers. It will also be at the centre of raising quality and the standard of teaching and learning in our FET colleges, now to be known as Vocational Education and Training colleges.
We believe that an institute of this nature is essential and central in addressing the many weaknesses that we have in our colleges at this time. Such an institute will be made up of both stakeholders, including labour, business and others, and experts who have knowledge of vocational and continuing education and training.
We are of the view, therefore, that this measure is a very important component of creating this vibrant postschool education and training system. Ordinarily, we would have expected all the parties and all members to support an intervention of this nature, as it is critical in addressing the many problems that we have inherited from the past, as well as in increasing opportunities, especially for those members of our community who were denied such opportunities in the past. Thank you very much.
Hon Deputy Speaker, Ministers and Members of Parliament, the Further Education and Training Colleges Amendment Bill was referred to the committee on 12 June this year. The committee facilitated public hearings and engaged with written submissions by stakeholders, ending that process on 11 September 2012.
The purpose of this Bill is to amend the long title and the short title of the Further Education and Training Colleges Act to Continuing Education and Training Act. This amendment is necessary in order to ensure that the message is received that postschool education focuses on all persons outside schools, not necessarily those who are referred to as adults.
It introduces a new institutional typology of community colleges which encapsulates the function of the current Adult Basic Education and Training, Abet, centres. It is significant to state that this Bill seeks to repeal the Adult Basic Education and Training Act, Act 52 of 2000, effectively encapsulating adult education and training in the postschool education terrain. In this context there is the introduction of the new institutional typology of community colleges to be responsible for functions of the Abet centres and also to create possibilities for a differentiated educational qualification mix.
The Bill will introduce or establish - to which the hon Minister alluded - the SA Institute for Vocational and Continuing Education and Training, VCET, which will be responsible, among other things, for advising the Minister on matters of VCET; enhancing and developing curricula design; and promoting human capital development in the VCET landscape.
It further empowers the Minister to intervene in instances of maladministration and financial impropriety by issuing directives for remediation of whatever morass may be occurring in the board. In the case of a recalcitrant board the Minister will be entitled to appoint an administrator who will take over the functions, powers, and responsibilities of the board, which will cease to exist forthwith.
We have effected amendments to this Bill in regard to the constitution of the board to limit the contours of ministerial discretion and guarantee compositional certainty, without denting the strategic essence of the original Bill as referred.
I would like to extol all 17 stakeholders who made the effort to give profoundly thoughtful contributions to the process during public participation. These stakeholders include, amongst others, SA Women in Co- operatives; SA National Apex Co-operative ... Sanaco; Adult Learning Network, ALN; Education SA; National Education, Health and Allied Workers' Union, Nehawu; and SA Democratic Teachers' Union, Sadtu.
It would be remiss of me for not highlighting the fact that the DA declined to endorse the Bill, or abstained from endorsing it, because of organisational political considerations. However, those considerations did not inhibit the DA members in the committee from meaningfully and constructively taking part in the deliberations leading to the approval of the Bill by the portfolio committee. Among those considerations is the following: The assignment of FET colleges to the national sphere will divest the DA of administrative control of the FET colleges in the People's Republic of the Western Cape, under the leadership of Madam "Refugee" Zille. [Laughter.]
But that does not deter me from congratulating Prof Lotriet on her election as the provincial chairperson of the DA in the Free State, because she is a very profound scholar and loyal member of the portfolio committee. She is about to join us, sworn by her contributions in our committee. Thank you very much.
I must also thank Tata Mpontshane from the IFP and hon Bhanga from Cope for their support. I know that Comrade Bhanga may want to raise the issue of the administrator, thinking that enabling the Minister to appoint the administrator might tamper with academic freedom, institutional autonomy, and scientific research at the institutions. I would like to assure him that that is not possible. Every law that the Minister wants to introduce will have to be approved by him because he is a Member of Parliament. So he is a human guarantee of the impossibility of any intrusion into the affairs of the institutions by the Minister or anybody else. He is the final guarantee, because his party, more than anybody else, seems to love the Constitution of South Africa. The Constitution enshrines and protects those fundamental values that he seems to stand for and that, we would like to say, we will protect at all costs. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Deputy Speaker, the DA strongly supports the idea that Further Education and Training, FET, colleges should be strengthened and improved and, indeed, that all forms and levels of education should be improved. This includes adult education and training.
What this Bill aims to do is to amend the Further Education and Training Colleges Act, FETC Act, in order to provide for the inclusion of a second type of institution within the existing legal framework, and that refers to the Community Education and Training colleges, CET colleges.
The change of FET colleges in terms of this Bill to vocational and continuing education and training colleges, VCET colleges, is an amendment that can be supported, as it does indeed provide more emphasis on the vocational function of these colleges. The change of "further" to "continuing" colleges also makes sense.
The establishment of the SA Institute for Vocational and Continuing Education and Training can also be seen as a positive step, as such an institute would be able, inter alia, to develop curricula and do research in the field of the college sector. This is something that can only assist in improving the quality of the college sector.
However, the Bill becomes problematic in the amendments that seek to convert Adult Basic Education and Training centres, Abet centres, into Community Education and Training colleges, CET colleges, because in terms of the amendments these CET colleges will operate within the existing provisions of the FETC Act as amended by this Bill, and the Adult Basic Education and Training Act, AET Act, will be repealed.
These Abet colleges that have been converted into CET colleges will then be deemed to have been established in terms of the FETC Act. It is also proposed that the governance structures, funding, management, and other related functions of Abet colleges be regulated in terms of the FETC Act.
This means that in terms of this Bill these Abet centres, to become CET colleges, will now be transferred to the national Department of Higher Education and Training. This was the essence of the 2012 Further Education and Training Colleges Amendment Bill, where FET colleges were transferred from provincial to national level. The DA opposed that Bill.
The present Bill now proposes the same for Abet centres by repealing the Abet Act. Provinces will thus not be responsible for Abet centres in terms of the Bill. Not only will FET colleges, but also Abet centres, be controlled by the Minister from Pretoria. This means that all power regarding colleges is being centralised by Minister Nzimande.
The way in which the previous Further Education and Training Colleges Amendment Bill expanded the powers of the Minister regarding staff, strategic plans, funding, councils, languages, and so forth will in terms of this Bill be extended to Abet centres. This is not the solution to the problems experienced in the sector.
If one has to go by how the department is dealing with the FET colleges now under its control, the prospects do not look very positive. Students have to wait months for the department to release results, and certificates take months and years to be issued. Surely, if you take control of institutions in order to improve the situation, then that is what should happen. We should not be receiving complaints on a daily basis.
A question also needs to be asked regarding the Abet centres or the proposed CET colleges. To what extent, if at all, will local and provincial government play a role in determining the local and provincial needs in regard to the programme mix and in the governance of these institutions? A further concern regarding this Bill is the constitutional amendment that is required to Schedule 4 Part A of the Constitution. In terms of Schedule 4, education at all levels, excluding tertiary education, is a concurrent national and provincial competence. This, the 18th Constitutional Amendment, has not yet been passed.
This creates an extremely unsatisfactory situation and a great deal of uncertainty for colleges, as well as for provinces. In fact, we have a situation where we are debating an Amending Bill based on an Act operating without the assumed constitutional amendment having been effected. Therefore, based on the above reasons, the DA cannot support this Bill. [Applause.]
Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Minister, Cope agrees with the principles and objectives of strengthening further education through vocational training, aligning school education with higher education, and building capacity. This is because what we see today is that we have weak Further Education and Training institutions. The elements and the objectives of this Bill attempt to strengthen them. The Green Paper, in particular, elaborates further on the 2030 Vision, in which we want to build a vocational institute that will be able to build that capacity.
However, the danger that we in South Africa are confronted with is that we are redirecting students to Further Education and Training, but those very same students are not employable! Your intentions are very noble, but, Minister, the problem we are confronted with in this country is the centralisation of authority. We must avoid that. We, as Cope, are concerned that you continuously want to take over control of the running of universities. That was in the first Bill and now it is in this one.
We do not understand what informs that. We have seen your actions in your term of office. It is like giving a child a machine gun to just shoot everybody and kill universities. We fear that if we give you more power to run these universities, as you intend in your interventions as the Minister, you won't be capable of running and giving advice and capacity to these institutions. What you will do is to put in administrators who will fail, like those at the Walter Sisulu University for Science and Technology, WSU. You will also do what you were trying to do at the Central University of Technology, CUT, where you were dismissed.
What you know most, and what we even said on Tuesday, is that you will use the authority in this Bill that you are introducing to intervene at the universities and institutions where you seek to intervene, while all these universities are in fact collapsing under your own administrators! You are unable to intervene and help them.
We believe that this will compromise the academic freedom of the institutions, and in particular as it relates to the establishment of this institute. In the powers you want to give yourself you even say in some sentences that if the institute does not follow the instructions and the guidance, you will just disband the board! We do not want that. We need institutions that are properly guided, and institutes that will be able to guide. I therefore agree with the Professor. The Professor has put it like a professor, very nicely, and mentioned the intentions and how we want to see things.
Let me share with you a few stories. In a meeting that hon ... [Time expired.]
Xandla xa Xipikara, Vaholobye na Swandla swa Vaholobye, Swirho swa Palamende, swirho swo xiximeka, munhu a nga ka a nga sunguli hi ku vulavula hi dyondzo yo yisa emahlweni na ndzetelo hi ku hambanyisa leswi languteriweke eka sekitara leyi na mayelana na ku humesa swikili leswi faneleke na vatirhi lava nga na vuswikoti eka tiko ra hina.
Ndzi lava ku tshikelela leswaku tikholichi i mihlangano ya nkoka leyi humesaka swikili swa le hansi na le xikarhi. Ti humesa swikili swo tala swa nkoka no kongoma leswi lavekaka ku kurisa ikhonomi ya hina ni ku tumbuluxa mitirho. Hikokwalaho, swi na nkoka leswaku hi va na nhlangano lowu nga enawini, lowu tiyimiseleke, lowu nga ta landzelerisa ni ku angamela sekitara leyi.
Xinawana xa 1(d) xa Nawumbisi xi lava leswaku Holobye a tumbuluxa nhlangano wa ndzetelo wa mitirho ya mavoko na dyondzo na ndzetelo swo yisa emahlweni eAfrika-Dzonga.
Nhlangano wa Dyondzo ya mitirho ya movoko na ndzetelo swo yisa emahlweni yi fana yi ri yoxe eAfrika-Dzonga. Germany, tanihi rin'wana ra matiko lama rhangeke emahlweni eka xiyenge xa dyondzo ya mitirho ya mavoko na xithekiniki, ri na leswi vuriwaka Nhlangano wa Federali wa Dyondzo ya Mitirho ya Mavoko na Ndzetelo leswi sunguriweke hi 1970. Ku humelela ka dyondzo ya mitirho ya mavoko na ndzetelo ya le Germany swi vekiwa eka ndzavisiso wa xiyimo xa le henhla xa mitirho ya mavoko xa nhlangano. Nhlangano wu tirha ku vona mitlhonthlo leyi ya ha taka eka dyondzo ya mitirho ya mavoko, yi hlohlotela vutumbuluxi eka tisisiteme ta le tikweni na matiko ya misava na ku tumbuluxa switshunxo swintshwa leswi tirhisekaka eka dyondzo ya mitirho ya mavoko na ndzetelo swa masungulo no yisa emahlweni.
Nhlangano wu swi kotile ku lawula ni ku vona swilaveko swa swikili swa mundzuku hi ku hatla va xopaxopa. Hi ku endla tano mihlangano ya dyondzo ya mitirho ya mavoko na ndzetelo ya swi kota ku nyika swikili swo kongoma no laveka emitirhweni.
I ntiyiso leswaku sekitara ya hina ya dyondzo yo yisa emahlweni na ndzetelo[further education and training], FET, yi tsanile hikuva khale a yi nga tekeriwi enhlokweni. Minongonoko ya hina hi xitalo, ngopfungopfu ya national technical education, Nated, yi hundzeriwile hi nkarhi. Leyi yi nga kongoma a yi kona, xikombiso swikili eka ikhonomi leyi hlayisaka mbangu na indhasitiri ya timhaka ta swa lwandle hi swin'wana ndzi nga swi boxaka.
Ku na mitlhontlho hi kharikhulamu hikokwalaho ku na ku feyila ni ku vuyelela hi xitalo, xiyimo xa le hansi xa vuleteri, ku fambelana ko tsana exikarhi ka tikholichi na le ntirhweni, ku fambelana ka FET eka tiyunivhesiti na mitlhontlho leyi fambelanaka na vufambisi.
Hi tlhela hi tikeriwa hi mhaka ya nkunguhato wa swikili hikuva a hi si kota ku vona mavangwa ya swikili swa mundzuku, hikokwalaho hi humesa mathwasana lawa ma nga kotiki ku kuma mitirho. Ku lava hi va na nhlangano lowu tiyimiseleke, lowu nga ta kambela nkoka wa ku nyikiwa ka dyondzo ya mitirho ya mavoko na ku nghenelela ka ha ri na nkarhi. Wu fanele wu va nhlangano lowu nga ta langutisisa minongonoko ya dyondzo ya mitirho ya mavoko na xithekiniki na ndzetelo nkarhi na nkarhi ku fikelela swilaveko swa mitirho.
Nhlangano wu ta va wa xiphurofexinali lowu vumbiweke hi swirho leswi nga na vuswikoti eka xiyenge xa dyondzo ya mitirho ya mavoko na ndzetelo. Wu ta va vuxikarhi bya xiyimo xa le henhla eka ndzavisiso na vutumbuluxi eka sekitara ya FET. Nakambe wu ta tlhela wu hluvukisa vuswikoti na ku antswisa swikili swa vadyondzisi eka dyondzo ya mitirho ya mavoko na ndzetelo.
Ku languteriwa leswaku nhlangano wu ta tirhisana na mihlangano leyi nga kona ya ndzavisiso ku sivela ku endla mitirho leyi fanaka. Vaswirhundzu na vamatlhari, hi ndhundhuzela ndzawulo eka goza lerikulu leri yi ri tekeke ku tumbuluxa nhlangano lowu. (Translation of Xitsonga paragraphs follows.)
[Mr Z S MAKHUBELE: Deputy Speaker, Ministers and Deputy Ministers, Members of Parliament, hon members, a person cannot begin talking about further education and training, FET, without referring to the expectation of this sector with regard to developing and producing relevant skills and workers who have the abilities for our country.
I would like to emphasise that our colleges are important institutions that produce low- and medium-level skills. They produce many critical and relevant skills which are required to grow our economy and to create jobs. Therefore, it is important that we have a recognised institute that will monitor and oversee this sector.
Subsection 1(d) of the Bill requires of the Minister to establish the SA Institute for Vocational and Continuing Education and Training.
The SA Institute for Vocational and Continuing Education and Training will be the first of its kind in South Africa. Germany, as one of the leading nations in vocational and technical education, has the Federal Institute for Vocational Education and Training, which was established in 1970. The success of vocational education and training in Germany is based on high quality vocational research. The institute looks into the anticipated challenges of vocational education and training, stimulates innovation in national and international vocational systems, and develops new, practically oriented solutions for both basic and advanced vocational education and training.
The institute was able to monitor and identify the requirements for future skills through immediate review. By doing so, the institutes for vocational education and training are able to provide relevant and requisite skills for employment.
It is correct that our further education and training, FET, sector is weak because in the past it was not taken into consideration. Most of our programmes, particularly the national technical education, Nated, are outdated. There was none that was relevant. For example, skills in the green economy and maritime industry are but a few that I can mention.
There are challenges with regard to the curriculum, which leads to failure and repetition, a lower standard of training, weak correlation between colleges and employment, correlation of FET with universities, and administrative challenges.
The other challenge that we have is skills planning because we have not yet been able to identify future skills gaps; therefore we produce graduates who cannot find employment. We should have a committed institute that will monitor the importance of providing vocational education and will intervene in time. This institute must be an institute that will review programmes of vocational and technical education and training time and again to attain the needs required for work.
The institute will be a professional organisation consisting of members who have capabilities in the area of vocational education and training. It will be the centre of excellence for advanced research and innovation in the FET sector. In addition, it will develop the abilities and skills of the teachers in vocational education and training.
It is expected that this institute will co-operate with other existing research institutes to avoid duplication of work. Ladies and gentleman, we applaud the department for the giant step that it has taken to establish this institute.]
What we are saying is that it is not unique for South Africa to have such an institute. I heard hon Bhanga saying that it was like we are giving the Minister all the powers, and that perhaps informed the fact that he is against the institute! He must do further research and he'll understand that it is not just we as a country who are going to be establishing such an institute. Germany, the leading country on issues of vocational education and training, started the same type of institute in 1970.
And it has proved that it works, because there is professional advice in the sector and you are able to ensure that training institutions and the industry co-operate and say what is needed, which happens to be the upgrading of the skills of those who are being trained, in skills that are needed by the industry. We want to have the same thing done in our own country, so that we don't have graduates who cannot be absorbed because they are still focused on outdated programmes and skills.
I thank you. [Applause.]
Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker. Hon Minister, I must hasten to say that there were some constitutional considerations that would have forced us as the IFP to oppose this Bill, but utilitarian factors weighed heavily on our thinking and our caucus reached the conclusion that we must support this piece of legislation. [Applause.]
This is because, in our thinking, firstly, this Bill seeks to streamline and co-ordinate further education and training, FET, colleges, and create a very necessary institutional framework such as community colleges, which will enable a greater outreach into our communities.
Secondly, it is imperative, now more than ever, that our institutions of higher learning provide students with the necessary and relevant skills required to move from a learning to an employment environment. For this to happen, their curriculum must be relevant, their teachers must be competent, and their institutions must be easily accessible.
The main questions that remain are: Are these FET colleges performing in respect of their mandates? Are they producing the skills required by the South African economy?
Youth unemployment continues to climb and shows no signs of slowing down. This, we submit, is a challenge that must be approached from all angles.
In conclusion, our FET colleges must concentrate on accessibility, right skilling, competent teaching staff, and the promotion of a culture of entrepreneurship amongst their students.
Additionally, I know, Minister, that you have tried your best when it comes to the Sector Education and Training Authorities, Setas, but we are saying these Setas should be disbanded and the money given to FET colleges. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Madam Deputy Speaker, we, as the ANC, welcome the proposed amendments to the Bill in totality, especially the repeal of the Adult Basic Education and Training Act of 2000. We also welcome the inclusion of the community education and training colleges. It should be clearly noted that the repeal does not mean that adult education has no role in our country - not at all.
Though the statistics show that there is an improvement in the literacy rate, there are areas where the illiteracy rate is still very high, especially amongst the adults in our country.
In addition, the study published by Cloete in 2009 revealed that in 2007 there were more than 2,8 million people of between the ages of 18 and 24 who were not employed, who were not in some form of education or training, and who were not severely disabled. Of this number, over 500 000 had primary education, over 508 000 had secondary education that was under Grade 10 and almost a million had Grade 8 or more, but had Grade 12.
So, as a country, what is it that we are learning from this? This tells us that we need to broaden the provision of adult education in order to create educational opportunities for these segments of the population with different needs.
The Adult Basic Education and Training Act, Abet Act, of 2000, as it is in its current form right now, is very limiting and restricting in regard to the provision of Abet education, because it ends at National Qualifications Framework Level 1, which is equivalent to Grade 9. We all know and agree that in our country, when we talk about the Adult Basic Education and Training, Abet, institutions, we realise that they have been found wanting and have been treated almost like stepchildren in our education system. Hence we have these amendments to the Bill to take care of such things. The Abet Act does not cater for those with qualifications above Grade 9, but who have not completed Grade 12, or those who have failed Grade 12 and need to repeat it.
During the public hearings, stakeholders such as the SA Women in Co- operatives and the SA National Co-operatives proposed the inclusion of an academy or an institution in the proposed community college model that would provide skills training to sustain the co-operatives. This was a clear indication that people yearned for a different sector that would provide for nonformal, informal and formal education and training.
We, as the ANC, believe then that the conversion of the public adult learning centres into Community Education and Training colleges is a good move, which will broaden the scope of the provision of education and training for all the citizens of our country. We hope that this will, among other things, continue towards addressing the new challenges that our country is facing.
Hon members, our country is facing a "youth bulge" phenomenon. Economists have argued that the growing youth population could be an important demographic dividend if they are equipped with the right employable and self-employable skills. However, the demographic dividend will happen only if the economically active people are engaged through education, training and employment.
The National Development Plan: Vision for 2030 is acknowledging that South Africa has failed to reap this demographic dividend by harnessing the potential of the proportionately large cohorts of working-age youth. We have failed because a large cohort of the young people have a low level of education, that is, below Grade 12, and they are neither employed nor in education and training.
The department has proposed the National Senior Certificate for Adults of the age of 18 and beyond. Research studies show that a significant number of learners are dropping out of the schooling system after Grade 9, which is the last grade of compulsory education. This group of dropouts include those who drop out between Grades 10 and 11, and are not catered for in the current adult education provision. The only alternative for them is the FET colleges. We are saying that is not enough. We need to open more alternatives for such people; hence, we are supporting such amendments to the Bill.
While the Department of Education has closed down the finishing schools, it has not, however, provided an alternative for those who failed Grade 12 to repeat the grade on a full-time basis, except for writing the supplementary examinations. It is because of the lack of alternatives that South Africa is faced with these challenges.
I need to caution all of us that if these young people are not provided for, they will find themselves on the road to nowhere. And the danger thereof is that the "youth bulge" will become a demographic bomb, because a large number of frustrated youth are likely to become a potential source of social and political instability.
It is against this background that the repeal of the Adult Basic Education and Training Act of 2000 is justifiable, and it will pave the way for the broadening of adult education and training through Community Education and Training colleges, and continuing education and training.
Thus, while we respect the position of the DA, who are rejecting the Bill in its totality and not supporting it, we, as the ANC, will approve the Bill, because it is a step in the right direction in improving the socioeconomic status of South African citizens.
So, to me it shows clearly that if the DA cannot support such a Bill that is going to create so many ... [Interjections.] I am coming to them, member. So, to me, if we hear the DA claiming that it is taking care of the people out there in our country, but we find it rejecting such a progressive Bill that is going to take care of all those people that are not employed and are lacking skills in our country, it really leaves much to be desired. One asks oneself which people the DA is taking care of!
I think Cope was also a little bit confused, because hon Bhanga came here and talked more about the higher institutions, the universities. We are still coming to that Bill, Mr Bhanga! However, it is fine to be proactive and ahead of things! I understand, as he was not even part of the deliberations on this Bill when it was discussed in the committee, but he will learn some other time. [Applause.]
Hon Mpontshane, thank you very much. We know the way you have been active in the committee. We know the support that you have given, and that you have the interests of the people of the country at heart. That is why we have seen in you such a progressive manner of agreeing with and supporting the Bill. Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]
Deputy Speaker, first of all, let me take this opportunity once more to thank the ANC for working very hard in leading the processing of this Bill, as well as for its support and proper grasp of what the intention of this Bill is.
Ngibonge nakuwe bab'uMpontshane, angazi ibuye ixabanephi thina nawe ngoba uyayibamba lapho kufanele uyibambe khona. Kule ndawana yemfundo, ongathi siyazwana. Engathi kungahlala kunjalo ngoba le nto esiyenzayo siyenzela izingane zethu. Kodwa asigcini futhi ukuyenzela izingane zethu, siyenzela lungu elihloniphekile Trollip, abantu abadala bakithi.
Ngifuna ukuyichaza le nto yemfundo yabadala. Aniyazi ukuthi yini. Okokuqala ukuthi zonke izikhungo zefundo yabadala zisebenza ngendlela ephula imithetho. Ake ngithi nje iningi lazo ngoba ... (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Thank you, Mr Mpontshane. I don't know why we sometimes view things differently, because when you are given a task, you carry it out diligently. With regard to the issue of education, we seem to be on the same page. I wish that it will remain that way because we do what we are doing for our children, but we don't only do it for them, hon Trollip. We also do it for our elderly.
I want to explain the issue of Adult Basic Education and Training. You don't know what it is. First of all, Adult Basic Education and Training centres operate illegally. Let me say that most of them ...] ... with regard to legislation the Adult Basic Education and Training centres, as things stand now, are only empowered to offer National Qualifications Framework, Level 1, which is far less than Grade 11 or even Grade 10. Grade 7, yes. [Interjections.] Yes. Well, I am Minister of Higher Education and Training, of course! Many of them are actually offering matric programmes and classes. What we are doing is illegal, but government has turned a blind eye on this matter because of the need. What this legislation is doing, is correcting that so that these centres are able to offer programmes up to the equivalent of matric without any problems. That is the objective of this legislation.
The record of Adult Basic Education and Training since 1994 has also not been a good one. Under provinces it has not been a good one. Hence the President's proclamation that these centres should become a national responsibility. That is together with colleges, by the way. The advantage of doing that is that we are better able to align these institutions with the Setas. We are also better able to ensure that programmes offered at these institutions articulate better with universities for those who want to proceed to university after these initial qualifications, which must be recognised by the universities. So that is the logic of the national government. The logic of the national government is not to centralise power.
Hon member Bhanga, you know, I hate - not you - ex-communists, because they are like ex-smokers! Since when have you abandoned the dictatorship of the proletariat, for instance? [Laughter.] Not so long ago we were arguing the same thing with you. Now you are like an ex-smoker who does not even want to smell a cigarette from somewhere, as if you have never smoked before!
In fact, if you look at the establishment of the SA Institute for Vocational and Continuing Education and Training, we are deliberately saying that we need experts to come and advise the Minister. These are experts who would come and design appropriate curricula so that these functions would not just be centralised in the departments. It will enable us to bring in a whole range of other people from outside the department, who will add value to the transformation of our college sector. So, where is the centralisation there?
My worry though, with the DA and Cope, and there is increasingly hardly any difference now, ...
... siyabona impela ukuthi ingathi lo mshado usondele. [Uhleko.] Bab'uLekota nashiya umshado kwenye indawo ngoba nifuna ukuzogana lana. Siyayibona le ndaba. [Uhleko.] Nifuna Ukuzogana nizoba omakoti bala eNtshonalanga Kapa. [Uhleko.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[... because we can see that this coalition is about to take place. [Laughter.] Mr Lekota, you left your party somewhere because you wanted to belong here. We are aware of that. [Laughter.] You want to belong to the Western Cape.]
The problem is that you are reducing this to a petty, party-political issue, at the expense of the interests of the youth and the adults of our country. That is why we are talking about centralisation, but you are not looking at all the advantages. Also, do not just come and talk here - judge us by our track record!
Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Bhanga was, in fact, out of order. This Bill is not about administration. It is about transforming and changing the face of Vocational and Continuing Education and Training in our country.
Furthermore, you cannot, by the way, use the issue of the fact that certificates in FET colleges have been delayed. This is not a new problem - it goes back to 2007. However, since this department has been created, we have increased the number of certificates that we have released to graduates from the FET colleges. [Applause.] Even with regard to those certificates that we have not released, we have in the meantime, provided students with proof to show that they have actually completed those particular courses to enable them to access employment.
That is the work of this department, because our interest is in nothing other than empowering the ordinary workers and the poor of this country, not in centralising power in ourselves! So stop playing narrow party- political games and support something that is actually important!
The last thing, hon Deputy Speaker and hon members, is in regard to the Adult Basic Education and Training centres that we are changing into Community Education and Training colleges. What we are doing is this. At the moment the Abet centres are focusing only on a, e, i, o, u, and doing matric. We are saying that these centres must be community colleges so that they can offer short programmes in fencing or knitting or baking - skills that are actually needed by ordinary people in the communities. [Applause.] We are changing them in order to empower them.
Ngoba into eniyijahe kakhulu ukuthi niphikise yonke into eyenziwa nguhulumeni nize ningaboni nezinto eziyizidingo kubantu bakithi. Yingakho niyohlala njalo ningapha kule Ndlu ngoba yithi kuphela esaziyo ukuthi yini esiyenzayo. Sibonga kakhulu kuwo wonke amalungu asekele lo Mthethosivivinywa esiwuphasisa namhlanje. Sibonga kakhulu. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[Because what you are very quick to do, is to oppose everything the government is doing and you end up not recognising the needs of our people. That's why you will always remain on that side of this House, because we are the ones who know what we are doing. Thank you very much to all the members who are in support of this Bill being passed today. Thank you very much. [Applause.]]
Debate concluded.
Hon Deputy Speaker, the Minister referred to the ex-smokers. I wonder, as an ex-IFP member, whether the Minister still has the same view. [Laughter.]
No, no, you are out of order.
Bill read a second time (Democratic Alliance, Congress of the People and Independent Democrats dissenting).