Hon Speaker and hon members, Prof Turok, yes, I am aware of the High-Level Forum on Aid Effectiveness. Invitations were extended to government by the Embassy of the Republic of Korea in Pretoria in June this year.
As members may be aware, the Africa Platform for Development Effectiveness, APDev, was officially launched during the African Union Economic Commission for Africa Joint Annual Meetings of Conference of African Ministers of Finance, Planning and Economic Development in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, on 27 March this year.
Though the Minister of Finance was unable to attend the launch, in his response to the invitation he expressed the South African government's support for multistakeholder dialogue that promotes a unified message for Africa to grow out of aid, enhance domestic resource mobilisation, deepen ownership and promote South-South co-operation.
Government intends to inform the public of its support for this initiative through the communication channels that are managed by the Government Communication and Information System, GCIS. The South African government will be represented in Busan by a high-level delegation. Furthermore, the invitation from the Korean Embassy also requests that Members of Parliament and representatives from civil society be included in the South African delegation.
Before I give the floor to the hon Turok to ask a supplementary question, I want to give an opportunity to Dr Goqwana to ask a question; we inadvertently skipped him.
Mr Speaker, I thank the Deputy President; even for the decision that was made. I guess if this was done a year ago, we would have been very worried about the fact that there are inequities in health. However, because the Department of Health has started re-engineering primary health care, which is a precursor to universal coverage, we tend to think that this is going to be able to reach everybody and, obviously, have the intended consequence of making sure that everybody gets antiretrovirals.
I guess this is not a question, but a comment. We are very happy that this has been started at a time of universal discussion of universal coverage.
Mr Speaker, Deputy President, I am delighted to hear your response. I was present at the launch of the APDev and was very moved by that occasion. I should say that it has taken considerable effort by four of the most important organisations in Africa - the African Development Bank, the African Union, New Partnership for Africa's Development, Nepad, and the Economic Commission for Africa - to inform the donor countries that Africa's poverty cannot be overcome by aid alone.
Instead, aid can only be a catalyst in home-grown development right across the continent. My question, therefore, is: How can this House best show its political support for the new pan-African approach to donor aid? Can you help us on that?
Well, I think hon Turok is a true professor; he knows the answer, but he is asking me the question. [Laughter.] As I said, the invitation requests of the South African government, should include Members of this Parliament in the delegation.
Therefore, I would imagine that in preparing for participation in Busan, the members will have to ponder the question of how best to strengthen intra-Africa trade, beginning with the regional trade within the Southern African Development Community, SADC, itself and also to address the challenge. Aid, as we know, only freezes poverty and dependence. It is, therefore, advisable to explore ways of moving away from dependence on aid.
I don't have a magic formula for that other than that we should use our challenges of social and economic backlogs in South Africa, as well as the rest of the African continent, to create stronger intra-African trade. Thank you.
Speaker, on a point of order: We are battling to hear; the microphone seems to be turned down very low. It's very difficult to hear what's being said.
Would somebody just check the microphone and would everybody speak into their microphones.
Mr Speaker and Deputy President, in view of subsection 3, 4 and 5 of Question 6 - in the case that the Deputy President answers in the positive, which he did, bearing in mind that aid and the factors that hamper its effectiveness or the passage of that, such as factionalism, armed conflicts, warlordism, corruption, small arms proliferation, bad leadership, lack of co-ordination, are the permanent features of this edifice - should the government not contemplate establishing a permanent and inclusive aid commission or structure or organ, which will deal with aid internationally and nationally?
The volume has been turned up. If it's still not audible, you can use the earpieces.
Hon Speaker, hon Skosana and hon members, I am sure that, once there are concrete proposals for government to consider, government will no doubt do so. However, at this point in time, the issue, really, is how to ensure that the requisite aid is made available without becoming too dependent on it. As the professor said earlier on, we need to explore and move away from reliance on aid. That's what the AU, the African Development Bank, ADB, as well as the Commission for Africa are considering at this point in time.
Mr Speaker, Mr Deputy President, In your view, how does the African Platform for Development Effectiveness, APDev, enhance or benefit or, in fact, dovetail with the initiatives that the SADC is currently undertaking for the region, in particular, and for the continent, or is this another duplication of effort by different organisations? However, it is also well known that donor aid has been used corruptly in some countries. Are there measures that the AU has put in place to counter this? Thank you.
Speaker, the African Platform for Development Effectiveness consists of the ADB and the Economic Commission for Africa, and was initiated by Ministers of Finance Planning and Economic Development in Africa, because they realised that African countries who depended mainly - even for their national budgets - on aid will forever be in that position of weakness, despite all the natural resources in Africa.
Therefore, this platform is meant for them to compare notes and share perspectives on the effectiveness of the development plans on the continent; that's really the purpose. The Busan conference will be the second such conference that they participate in. Therefore, it's really early days; it's not clear yet as to how effective the platform will be. Thank you.
Hon Nyamie Booi, the person seated next to you really wants to listen to the Deputy President; you are really interfering with his right to listen. [Interjections.]
Speaker, hon Deputy President, in demonstrating support for APDev, what progress, if any, has there been in the development of a database on regional and international commitments in aid effectiveness, South-South co-operation and capacity development for regular updating to facilitate follow-ups? Thank you.
Speaker, hon Dudley, as I said, these are early days. I am not aware that there is any data that has been developed because our Minister of Finance missed the first meeting. He is most likely to attend the second meeting. Thank you.
Particulars regarding any official request by government to Nato to stop bombing of Libya, and any objection to policy in support of regime change in Libya
7. Rev K R J Meshoe (ACDP) asked the Deputy President:
Whether the Government has officially (a) requested the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation (Nato) to stop the bombing of Libya that has resulted in the death of civilians and (b) objected to any policy in support of regime change in Libya; if not, why not; if so, what is the Government's policy with regard to regime change in a sovereign country? NO2508E
Hon Speaker, hon members, the government of South Africa has said repeatedly that hostilities in Libya need to end, including the bombing by Nato. President Zuma made this point very clearly in his engagements with Prime Minister Cameron of Britain, who recently visited our country, to President Medvedev of Russia, as well as to the Nato secretary general, Anders Fogh Rasmussen, when he attended a special meeting in Russia recently.
The President as well as the Minister and Deputy Minister of International Relations and Co-operation have consistently spoken out against Nato's violation of the mandate of UN Security Council Resolution 1973 in seeking regime change and against the resultant loss of civilian lives as it continues its bombing campaign of Tripoli.
The South African government has been clear in all engagements on the matter of Libya that it is against regime change and will continue to raise this issue in an attempt to prevent further loss of civilian lives and in seeking the adoption and implementation of the African Union roadmap by all parties involved in the Libyan conflict. Hon member, the AU has made it very clear that the Libyan people must determine their own future through an inclusive process that will ensure a full democratisation of all political institutions. This will allow for macroeconomic recovery and the restoration of normality in Libyan society.
As hon Meshoe is aware, it is our collective view as leaders in Africa that no illegal removal of a government can be justified, not least through violent means. I thank you.
Hon Speaker, apologies from Rev Meshoe, he has asked me to follow up on his behalf. Thank you for the information. It is also our understanding that government is now reluctant to recognise the National Transitional Council. In this regard, South Africa's offer to help Libya draft its new constitution, to whom would that offer have been made given government's reluctance in this area?
Hon Speaker, the formal recognition of the Transitional Council, hon Dudley, must be seen as a separate matter from the obligation and duty of contributing towards an all-inclusive process involving all Libyans in finding a peaceful and democratic way of moving forward from this current conflict-ridden situation.
Hon Speaker, Deputy President, within the context of the current situation in Libya, the big question would be: What is the position of South Africa with regard to continuing advocating democracy and human rights within Libya, especially ingratiating itself with the Libyans, that is now the general citizenry of Libya, so that we continue to occupy the space? What is the position of South Africa on that, in the language that is understood by the Libyan people?
Hon Speaker, thank you, hon Ngonyama. The position of the South African government is in line with that of the AU. The AU roadmap is the only honourable roadmap that would lead to peace, stability and democratisation of all institutions in Libya. Of course, we continue to be in a position to speak to both the people in Benghazi and Tripoli, because the people of Libya, as a people, deserve all the support they can muster and the South African government is willing to play its role in that regard. Thank you.
Mr Speaker, it is widely argued, Deputy President, that the International Criminal Court intends charging Col Gaddafi and his associates for crimes against his own people, and possibly charging the rebel contingent for possible violation of human rights. Therefore, in the light of those who perished as a result of the bombings by Nato, who is going to be held lawfully accountable for those atrocities? I know that the Deputy President might simply have a view and not an answer.
Thank you very much for that view on the view of the Deputy President.
Well, my tuppence worth of view on this matter is that indeed the UN Security Council resolution, which was aimed at protecting civilians, initially from bombings by the government of Col Muammar Gaddafi, was in a sense overstretched by Nato forces. That in itself creates a problem for the UN Security Council and for future interventions. As you are well aware, the situation in Syria is also of grave concern precisely because of this precedent created in Libya.
The UN Security Council has not been able to agree on how to intervene in Syria. As you know, in the Security Council there are permanent member states with veto power. So, if they don't want any resolution to see the light of day they veto it. In Libya, those who did not vote for Resolution 1973 abstained, which allowed the resolution to go through. But because of this precedence it has created very serious doubts in the permanent members of the UN Security Council.
Therefore, if the International Criminal Court, ICC, is to act on the basis of concrete information against those who would have been responsible for loss of lives of civilians, it would be very difficult for Nato to justify why and how it came to any conclusion.
We know that they are now attempting to create the impression that the rebels are acting on their own regarding attacks in Tripoli, but there are clear links and co-ordination at that level. The question is whether the ICC would have the wherewithal to unearth that information and bring those who are responsible to book, including the Nato commanders on the ground.
Hon Speaker, Deputy President, for the ANC, in pursuance of promoting democratic peace, we must all accept that democracies do not go to war with one another, even where democracy does not exist, but continue to push for the dominant mode of the South African view, and that of a negotiated solution for an inclusive government; even as the Minister of International Relations has said, "When the visitors leave Libya, the Africans will remain dealing with the African problems". What are the challenges, Deputy President, with the implementation of the postconflict strategy, as there will be no successful peacebuilding without socioeconomic or political stability?
Speaker, well, the difficulty really with the current Libyan situation is that nobody knows who these rebels are. They are a potpourri of ethnic groupings because the Libyan situation was very unfortunate in the sense that brother leader, Col Muammar Gaddafi, presided over that country with a small group of military generals - about 11 of them - over all these years. I think five years ago, he even reduced that number to six. So his cabinet, so to speak, consisted of only six members. And the institutions were really tribal institutions.
The only advantage is that at least they were able to invest in the education of their citizens. So, there are so many highly educated people in Libya because the state covered the studies of their citizens up to PhD level. Hopefully, because they are educated, one would assume that they are cultured and would see value in dialogue and in finding an inclusive solution. Otherwise, it is really an ethnic community.
That is why, when the Gaddafi government started bombing Benghazi, the soldiers who were - even generals - in that army who came from those tribes of Benghazi left the army, because their own tribesmen and children were being bombed and they went back home. Essentially, they need to establish almost from scratch the institutions of democracy. And that is why we believe they need all the assistance they can receive in that direction.
Extent of South African involvement in relief efforts in respect of humanitarian crises in Somalia
8. Mr S Mokgalapa (DA) asked the Deputy President:
(1) What is the full extent of all South African relief efforts in respect of the current humanitarian crises in Somalia;
(2) whether the Government co-operated with any African Union member states in contributing to the relief efforts; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, (a) with which specified countries and (b) what are the further relevant details of the contributions? NO2519E
Speaker, hon Mokgalapa, the South African Government has responded to the humanitarian crises confronting Somalia by raising R8 million towards the famine relief programme, R4 million of which was donated to the Gift of the Givers towards the transportation and logistical costs of delivering aid to Somalia.
Furthermore, and in line with South Africa's foreign policy objective of the consolidation of the African Agenda, the South African government, in partnership with Brand South Africa, has teamed up with the Gift of the Givers, and launched the Somalia Relief Campaign to raise public awareness of the dire situation in Somalia and to galvanise South Africans to make donations for relief efforts in that East African country.
The South African government also provided transport in the form of a South African National Defence Force C130 Hercules supply plane to the Gift of the Givers to deliver 18 tons of essential food and antimalaria medication to Mogadishu on 16 August 2011. This latest consignment brings to 120 tons the total aid delivered to Somalia by the Gift of the Givers in a two-week period.
In addition, government collaborated with other South African-based organisations that are contributing to the relief work for Somalis in Somalia and in refugee camps in neighbouring countries. These organisations include Islamic Relief South Africa, Africa Muslim Agency, Netcare South Africa, the Al-Imdaad Foundation and the Somali Community Board of South Africa. Members of the South African business community were also motivated to contribute, and food and other essential items were donated.
The total amount of the South African contribution, including government and civil society, is difficult to quantify at this stage, but certainly exceeds R20 million.
As the hon member is aware, the African Union hosts the Pledging Conference this week in Addis Ababa, where the South African government will make further pledges.
Let me use this opportunity to restate that South Africa, SADC and the AU's position on Somalia is that it is only under conditions of peace, stability and unity that a humanitarian crisis like this can be mitigated.
We therefore call on all parties involved to work towards a lasting solution to the political crisis in that country.
Once again we thank all individuals and organisations in South Africa that made contributions through various platforms, including the SABC telethon. I thank you.
Hon Speaker, I would like to thank the hon Deputy President for the reply. I wish also to recognise the efforts of everyone involved.
However, the Somali humanitarian crisis is an international source of concern, particularly for Africa. The role of the AU has been very ham- fisted and uncoordinated, due to the fact that there is no humanitarian arm in the AU that specifically deals with such crises.
The question therefore is whether you would agree that the AU needs to have a humanitarian agency or arm that will be responsible for dealing specifically with such crises in future, and what the South Africa government is doing to encourage the AU to establish such. Thank you.
Speaker, I should like to thank hon Mokgalapa. The need for a permanent humanitarian agency no doubt exists, but many of the African countries depend on aid, including aid for their own budgets. Some of them even struggle to pay their dues to the AU. However, that does not mean that such a body or agency should not be established or resources mobilised for such emergencies. I believe this is an idea that can be taken forward through the Department of International Relations and Co-operation. Thank you.
Hon Speaker, I would like to thank the Deputy President for the replies. Considering that there is no central government in Somalia, what role has the AU played to ensure that all relief efforts to this country are co-ordinated and that they reach those who really deserve the help? Thank you.
Speaker, yes, indeed, there is a central government in Somalia. It is an interim government, but it is unable to move out of Mogadishu. Essentially, Somalia is under the control of family warlords.
However, despite this tragedy, the relief is able to reach those who need it most, as I said, both inside Somalia as well as in refugee camps in the immediate surrounding neighbouring states. So, that part is taken care of because the peacekeeping forces continue to push the warlords back and are able to reach the needy, internally displaced people. Thank you.
Hon Speaker, in appreciating all the efforts the Deputy President has alluded to, is it perhaps not about time for us, in pursuance of the proposal for the special fund that was suggested, to have an extraordinary donor conference that can be dedicated to lessen that famine? Would the government be agreeable to a proposal for such a conference to be organised and maybe make a call to the AU as well? Thank you.
Speaker, perhaps we have to suggest to our leaders who would be attending the pledging conference this week, also to place this proposal on the table and see what the response would be from other member states. As I have said, a pledging conference has been convened in Addis Ababa for this week. Thank you.
I thank the hon Deputy President. Hon members, that concludes Questions to the Deputy President. Thank you, Deputy President. [Applause.]
The next item on the Order Paper is Questions addressed to Ministers in the Economic Cluster. Hon members, I have been informed that Question 89 and Question 91, which have been asked by the hon G M Borman and the hon H P Maluleka respectively to the Minister of Public Enterprises have been withdrawn. Question 146 has been asked by the hon D T George to the Minister of Finance.