Hon Deputy Speaker, the answer to hon Dexter is that the issue of the Information and Communications Technology, ICT, with Kumba is in court. That particular right is in court right now. When it comes to the issue of the Hawks, I just need to indicate that their action was highly irregular and unacceptable.
Deputy Speaker, is the Minister aware that one of the shareholders in ICT, whose name can be furnished to her, has been implicated in a number of similar cases where mineral rights have been awarded to companies associated with the individual concerned, under similar dubious circumstances?
Deputy Speaker, hon member, we have a process of how people apply to be involved in the mining industry. We do not count numbers as to how many times they have applied. What we are guided by is the law. In the law, the issues you are raising are in there. I am not aware as to what areas you are referring to wherein the person concerned has been involved.
You are better informed. I do not know it, therefore, I cannot respond to that. So far, what we have is legitimate. You also have the right to apply. We do not look at whether you apply a hundred times, but at whether your application is compliant. That's what guides us in terms of the law.
Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, the raid on the office of the department by the Hawks indicates the disastrous state of affairs and the lack of trust in the ability of the department to fulfil its task in issuing mining licences. It does not help you slamming the Hawks. Flowing from the above, will the Minister consider the establishment of an independent regulator to fulfil its tasks, to avoid any raids by the Hawks in future and to ensure the trust in the department is rebuilt? Thank you.
Deputy Speaker, if the hon member thinks that what has been done by the Hawks was right - he is wrong. They did not only raid our offices as the state, they also raided the state law advisers. What does it mean to you as a Member of Parliament?
The state no longer has the right to defend itself. If they also raid your lawyers as an individual, when they are defending you, would you allow the law enforcement agencies to raid those people? It is irregular, because the state law advisers were our legal advisers. That is exactly what we are saying - it is irregular.
I do not understand what you mean by the independent regulator. We are the regulator. We are independent from what? Because everything falls within a particular law. You cannot talk about irregular.
Hon Deputy Speaker and hon Minister, we are wondering in our minds whether the raid by the Hawks was really necessary. Therefore, the questions are: Firstly, did the Hawks request any information from the Department of Minerals and Energy, through either normal government channels or in any other manner whatsoever, before conducting this Hollywood-style raid?
Secondly, there is a recent interdict granted by the Northern Cape High Court that bars the usage of the information in the possession of the Hawks or the passing over of that information to Kumba or to other litigants. In your view, does this not suggest any possible collision between the elements within the Hawks and the litigants involved in the current case between government and the Department of Mineral Resources? Thank you.
Hon Deputy Speaker, I just wanted to indicate to the hon member that the issue he raised about the interdict was indeed irregular. Hon member, you are right, we went to court because it was quite clear that there was some information taken by the Hawks and given to Kumba. That raises a lot of questions about the legitimacy of the raid conducted by the Hawks.
When any law enforcement agency raids an institution, it should record and keep that information. So we were surprised that the information was immediately passed on to Kumba. You raised another question about the actions of the Hawks - it is quite clear that they had gone beyond their jurisdiction.
Those are some of the issues which make us wonder what the relationship between Kumba and the Hawks, as a law enforcement agency, is.
Sekela Somlomo, mhlonishwa uma ngizwa kahle umhlonishwa usho ukuthi ngamanye amazwi, okokuqala, laba ababephenya babefanele ukuba bacele kuyena yini? Okwesibili, ngabe ngizwa kahle uma umhlonishwa ethi bathatha imibuzo yonke bayimikisa kuKumba, asimazi-ke thina uKumba sizwa ngaye umhlonishwa ekhuluma ngaye.
Thina sazi ukuthi yilabo abebefanele ukuphenya. Ukuphenya kanti kufanele kutshelwe loyo muntu ofanelwe aphenywe yini? Noma kufanele ukuthi baphenywe labo okufanelwe baphenywe ngoba bayizigebengu? (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Mr V B NDLOVU: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, if I understand you well, in other words you mean that firstly, these people who were investigating were supposed to ask for permission from you? Secondly, I did not quite understand well when you said that they took all the questions and gave them to Kumba - we do not know what Kumba is; we only hear the hon Minister talking about it.
What we know is that they were supposed to be investigated. If one is to be investigated, are the investigators supposed to ask permission from the one who is going to be investigated? Or should those who are supposed to be investigated be investigated because they are the criminals.]
Hon Deputy Speaker, they do not have to ask for permission from me. The protocol says that the Minister of Police was supposed to write to the Minister of Justice, who in turn was supposed to write to me indicating that they required the following information from my department. This did not happen. It was never brought to the attention of the three of us.
Siyezwana bab'uNdlovu? Abazange basitshele, abatshelanga muntu. Into abayenzile bahambe bayotshela amaphepha, bazisa abamaphephandaba ukuthi bazohlasela (raid), sayithola naleyo. Okwesibili, uma ubuza ukuthi lokho abakwenzile babenayo imvume na?
Njengoba singuhulumeni imvume kufanele ihambe ngendlela efanele, ngendlela yokucela. Uma singavumi, kumele uNgqongqoshe wezoBulungiswa asho ukuthi uzothatha siphi isinqumo. Hhayi bamane batheleke emahovisini kahulumeni benguhulumeni. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Do we understand each other, hon Ndlovu? They did not tell us, they told no one. They informed the press that they were going to raid; we also got that one. Secondly, are you asking whether they had permission to do what they did?
As the government, the permission should follow the correct protocol of requesting. When we do not give permission, the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development must say which decision he is going to take. Not to just burst into the government's offices whilst they are government themselves.]
Particulars regarding contribution by department to Witsand integrated Energy Environment Empowerment-Cost Optimisation housing initiative in Atlantis and Kuyasa Projects in Western Cape
118. Mr S J Njikelana (ANC) asked the Minister of Energy:
(1) Whether her department contributes to the (a) Witsand integrated Energy Environment Empowerment-Cost Optimisation (iEEECO) housing initiative in Atlantis, and (b) Kuyasa Projects in the Western Cape; if not, what is the position in this regard, if so, (i) what type of contribution does her department make in each case and (ii) what is the envisaged duration of her department's contribution in each case;
(2) whether any impact resulted from her department's contribution; if not, what is the position in this regard, if so, what are the relevant details;
(3) whether her department identified any lessons during its contribution to the specified projects; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? NO2437E
Madam Deputy Speaker, I thank hon Sisa Njikelana for the question. The question is in relation to the matters related to the integrated Energy Environment Empowerment - Cost Optimisation, iEEECO. I just want to say that the department has never been requested to participate in the Witsand iEEECO project.
With regard to the Kuyasa project, the answer is: Yes, the Designated National Authority, DNA, within the Department of Energy issued a letter of approval to Kuyasa in 2005. A letter of approval is a prerequisite for any project that wishes to participate in the Clean Development Mechanism, CDM, under the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, UNFCCC.
The rules and procedures governing the CDM require a letter of approval from the DNA of the host country, which confirms that the project's activity assists the country in achieving sustainable development. This was a once-off process from the department and the project could receive the Certified Emission Reductions, CERs, if its performance gets approval from the executive board. The accreditation period for this project is seven years.
To part two of the question, the answer would be, indirectly, yes. Please note that the DNA does not provide any financial support to projects. It does, however, provide technical support relating to the clarification on CDM rules and procedures. Kuyasa was the first South African CDM project to be registered and also the first gold standard project in the world. In 2008, the DNA nominated Kuyasa for the UNFCCC CDM International Photo Contest 2008 under the theme "Changing Lives", which it subsequently won. It received capital grants from the Department of Water and Environmental Affairs and the provincial government Department of Housing. The project has retrofitted 2 310 houses with solar water heaters, insulated the ceilings and provided electrical wiring and compact fluorescent light bulbs.
The greenhouse gas emission reductions are estimated to be approximately 2,8 tons per household per year over a period of seven years. The project will generate income from the sale of carbon emission reduction certificates. A ton of certified emission reduction can be traded at approximately 10 to 13 euros on the spot market.
With regard to part three, the department has noted some lessons from this project and the project can be replicated throughout the country. Kuyasa has created a focus of attention for dealing with renewable energy in households and throughout the country.
Another similar project called the Sassa Low Pressure Solar Water Heater Programme was registered by the CDM executive board on 12 April 2011. A number of projects are underway, including the Cosmo City solar water heating project of the City of Johannesburg, the Nelson Mandela Bay Municipality and the Ekurhuleni Municipality solar water heating projects. These projects are also benefiting from the energy efficiency and demand side management fiscal allocations. Thank you.
Hon Deputy Speaker, I must thank - through you - the hon Minister. Even my follow-up question has been answered. All I can do is to commend her on the work that the department has done. This actually highlights the need for us to introduce energy efficiency practices in housing. Thank you very much.
Thank you, hon Njikelana; that was not a question. I call upon hon Mazibuko.
Hon Deputy Speaker, I am sure it is Ross. I think the microphones have just been mixed up, thank you. I will ask the question on behalf of hon Mazibuko.
You will not start with that different microphones thing, hm?
Yes, we hope it will be sorted out, Madam Deputy Speaker, thank you. May I proceed?
Yes.
Thank you for your response, hon Minister. Recognising the progress in this wonderful project, I think many of the questions I had in mind have already been answered. Let me just ask whether the department still has plans to extend these projects outside the Western Cape - as you have indicated - because of the progress. Do you, perhaps, have any targets set for the department to be involved in these projects, as you have mentioned that the department has not been involved? Could the Minister also confirm - and I think you have made a confirmation of 310 houses - but how many houses were built, specifically, in Atlantis and Kuyasa; and what was the cost, approximately, per home because that would be interesting? Could you also, perhaps, give an indication regarding the total cost of the project? With regard to the lessons learned, Madam Minister, I thank you. I think this is very important as this project optimises the potential for harvesting solar and wind as renewable energy projects. I thank you.
Deputy Speaker, thank you for the question from Mr Mazibuko-Ross ... [Laughter.] ... Mr Ross, as I have indicated in my response, it is our intention to use the lessons learned from Kuyasa, because, as you would have realised, there is an integrated energy solution for households, through which we could be able to make sure that South African households or houses are energy efficient or have an integrated energy solution in future.
Let me just indicate that the Department of Energy, together with the Department of Trade and Industry, is finalising the building construction regulations. These regulations will determine that each and every unit built in South Africa, irrespective of whether it is a house or an industrial building, needs to have an integrated energy solution; for example, gas for cooking and space heating, as well as for other related heating services in a particular establishment.
However, solar water heating, in particular, is very important; especially if you look at our hospitality industry. We have already engaged with the Department of Tourism to make sure that they engage the Tourism Grading Council so that energy efficiency becomes one of the criteria to determine the grading of establishments.
However, you must also remember that we have indicated that we need to reduce our over-reliance on electricity from the grid to make sure that it is only the lights and other appliances that consume electricity from it. I just need to indicate that I did arithmetic, but I am unable to quickly calculate what 2,8 tons per household for 2 310 households could turn into in seven years. I will give myself an opportunity to calculate that and give you the necessary response. Thank you very much.
Progress made regarding job creation
94. Mr N Singh (IFP) asked the Minister of Economic Development:
Whether any progress has been made regarding the creation of jobs, with specific reference to the New Growth Path plan; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? NO2404E
Deputy Speaker, in 12 months - up to the end of June this year - 64 000 new jobs were created. In the nine-month period since the release of the New Growth Path document, namely from the end of the third quarter of last year, 150 000 new jobs were created. After seven consecutive quarters of year-on-year job losses, we have now had two quarters of consecutive year-on-year job growth. If we break this down in more detail, using 1 October 2010 as the starting point, we see that the size of the total labour force - that is the employed and unemployed - grew significantly, particularly in the first two quarters of this year. We had about 200 000 people entering the labour market in each of the first two quarters of this year.
Secondly, the formal sector employment grew by about 155 000 persons, while the informal sector grew by 41 000 persons over that period. But agriculture declined quite sharply by 42 000 jobs.
The pace of job growth has slowed down in the most recent quarter. Since the release of the New Growth Path, government has taken a number of steps to ensure that we address the challenge of jobs. In the time available, I can only give a few examples on agriculture and in agro-processing. For example, a number of large agro-processing projects have been announced - a seed crushing plant in Mpumalanga. This will create up to 4 000 job opportunities in agriculture. A chicken farming project in the Free State has also been announced, and it has an employment of about 800 persons.
In speeding up the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme with 65 sites and 7 500 young persons who were taken up in this programme, the Industrial Development Corporation, IDC, has set aside R7,7 billion for investment in the agricultural value chain. Similarly, we can give examples in mining and beneficiation and manufacturing in the green economy. I will be very happy to pass this information to the hon member. Thank you.
Deputy Speaker, I thank the hon Minister for the response and the initiatives that have been taken to ensure that more jobs are created. Hon Minister, I have a report which says that South Africa's unemployment rate rose marginally to 25,7% in the second quarter. More and more people are becoming unemployed, whilst in certain areas, yes, you may be creating jobs.
I think the challenge, Minister - and I need a response from you - is that, whilst economic growth predictions may suggest that we will get a higher percentage in growth - the Minister of Finance may be able to confirm this - it is not commensurate with growth in jobs. Maybe we will get more people - 3% or 3,5% of economic growth - but this is not commensurate with jobs.
Both the Ministers in the Presidency: National Planning Commission and in Finance have recently called for - and I want to be more exact with this - more jobs-friendly legislation. We have not heard you saying anything about that, Mr Minister, and I would like to know if you have a view on that particular statement or on a call for this. Thank you.
Hon Deputy Speaker, let me start with the first part of the follow-up question. I think what we need to see with the job numbers is something very important. The size of the labour force is growing dramatically. We had job growth on a quarterly basis, but not fast enough. We don't have enough job growth to take account of the inadequate labour force.
Coming to the second issue, I think Minister Gordhan has given a comprehensive reply to the question of youth employment. If one wants to deal with labour market issues, there are three remarks I want to make. The first one is that we need more than labour market measures. We need a comprehensive response, and we need to set it out in the New Growth Path - tackle monopoly pricing and concentration ownership, address skills challenges in the economy and deal with infrastructure issues.
Secondly, we need to clearly define the labour market measures. What are those measures? We have an option of concentrating on building partnerships and tackling the productivity challenges of our country, or alternatively of starting a major industrial conflict over this or that piece of legislation. What government is focusing on is how to build a common vision in this country and how to unite everybody around a productivity vision.
This goes to the third point. Ultimately we are not going to resolve these issues in a piecemeal way. For that we need a social accord that brings together organised labour, the business community and government and places difficult issues on the table - wages, executive pay, prices and jobs. That is the approach we are taking as government; that is the view set out in the New Growth Path; and that is the view all my colleagues are propagating in their public comments. Thank you.
Deputy Speaker, with specific reference to the national growth path, has the hon Minister applied his mind to how the benefits offered by the African Growth and Opportunity Act can add value to the national growth path? In seeking partners - he has just been talking about a social compact or an accord and support for the New Growth Path - has the hon Minister sought to meet with the senior management of Walmart and make them aware of the competitive advantages given under the African Growth and Opportunity Act for sourcing consumer products manufactured in Africa and in South Africa? Since the Minister is here with his formidable troika that is pushing this national growth path, perhaps we should ask them if they, together as a troika, have sought to build a positive and constructive relationship with Walmart to build jobs for South African manufacturing.
Deputy Speaker, I will let the members of the troika speak for themselves.
Let me say that in the African Growth and Opportunity Act we do see opportunities. Therefore, we are lobbying strongly for the extension of the African Growth and Opportunity Act. We are also seeking revision on some of the provisions of the African Growth and Opportunity Act to benefit South African manufacturing.
Let me deal with the Walmart issue. The simplest answer to this is that indeed we met with the management of Walmart on more than one occasion, and we have engaged them precisely on this issue. The issue was on how one can make sure that their entry to South Africa helps to increase the total number of jobs in our economy, both by them procuring locally and by them incorporating South African companies in the global supply chain.
But there is a tough issue. No country has ever been able to create sustainable wealth, jobs and prosperity based on consumption only. You cannot shop your way to wealth and jobs. You have to produce, have factories, have agricultural products and beneficiate your mining products. Therefore, if Walmart wants to come to South Africa, it has to partner with us. It also has to procure from South African companies. We cannot afford an industrial wasteland with many factories closing because we built a super highway between South Africa and other Asian countries. There has to be a focus on South African jobs. That is the priority of this government. I hope it is the priority of this august House. Thank you. [Applause.]
Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, is there any process in place to monitor fluctuations of investment and the migration of skilled workers as a result of this growth path? If so, what methods and results have been seen so far, and if not, what are the reasons?
Deputy Speaker, hon member, government does look at the flow of investment as well as the stock of investment in the economy. The information is published regularly in the quarterly bulletin of the Reserve Bank. Recently there was quite a bit of publicity around the world investment report of United Nations Conference on Trade and Development, Unctad, that looked at investment flows into South Africa. It is important to contextualise that investment by its nature is lumpy. In other words, it does not go in a smooth curve. If you have a major transaction, for example a Standard Bank transaction where a major foreign bank takes equity in the bank, suddenly your Foreign Direct Investment will rise significantly. If you don't have the same transaction next year, it will drop suddenly. We do monitor this. This is a very important part of the work that the National Treasury and the Reserve Bank do and that Cabinet applies its mind to from time to time.
On the question of skills, in the New Growth Path we particularly call for a different regime in encouraging skilled immigration into South Africa. That has to be complemented with retaining our own skills base. You can go to Dubai and you will see a marvel of South African engineering and South African skills that have transformed the economy. So, part of what we need to do is to ensure, through active and dynamic economic activity, that we seek to encourage the New Growth Path and create an opportunity for skilled South Africans to deploy more of their talents domestically. Thank you.
Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, if we take the comments from the Minister of Finance - the teacup comments - he said the target of five million jobs by 2020 that has been set is difficult to reach or is unreachable. This means the target is completely off the table.
He went on to say that a target of only four million will be reached by 2025. What is your comment on that, Mr Minister?
Deputy Speaker, let me start by correcting the hon Smuts. I would encourage him to read the speech by the hon Minister of Finance, who clearly did not say that the target won't be reached or that the target should be changed. In fact, the Minister of Finance indicated that it will be a challenge to reach the target if we do things the way we have always done.
That goes to the heart of what we seek to do. We have to change the way in which the state works, the private sector and so on. I think what the Minister of Finance indicated in the speech is a number of measures in the New Growth Path that need to be implemented with urgency and with focus. I hope that addresses the one issue.
I do wish to conclude with the comment that the five million jobs target was always a stretch target. It is necessary. It is a stretch target in a society with high levels of unemployment. That requires, as I indicated in the reply to an earlier question, a national consensus on how we move forward and some agreements between government and partners in the wealth- creating machinery of the economy, business and labour. Thank you very much.
Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: I have pressed my thing here. I am not sure if it is working well.
It is working well. I didn't call you because we were already over four follow-up questions. We are now on another question.
There is a question for Minister Patel.
No, hon member. We have called all the speakers who wanted to ask Mr Patel a question - all four of them.
I did press here. That is why I'm saying I'm not sure if this thing is working.
It is working. Your name was here. But it was not amongst the four that pressed their buttons first. If you want to speak, you have to press your button first so that you can be within the first four. That is the Rule of this House.
Particulars regarding requested supplementation of Transnet's Second Defined Benefit Fund, and any steps to be taken to pay out increases to pensioners forthwith
133. Adv A D Alberts (FF Plus) asked the Minister of Finance:
(1) Why has National Treasury not yet given effect to Parliament's request for his department to supplement Transnet's Second Defined Benefit Fund in the amount of R1,9 billion;
(2) whether he, in co-operation with Transnet, will be taking any steps to pay out increases to pensioners forthwith, because Transnet is unwilling to make the money for the payment of increases available immediately, but first wants to use the fund's surplus for disbursements; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? NO2458E
Deputy Speaker, the response to the first part of the question is that when the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises resolved on 2 November 2010 that a cash injection of R1,964 billion be provided to the Transnet Second Defined Benefit Fund to cover an ex gratia payment of five months, pension, a base upliftment of 3,21% and 75% of Consumer Price Index, CPI, and an annual increase going forward on the 3,21% uplifted base, it was recognised that a funding solution still needed to be finalised.
The Minister of Finance has met with the Minister of Public Enterprises and reached agreement that Transnet will be responsible for providing all of the funding. To effect this decision, it requires the following process be followed: firstly, the rules need to be amended and drafted accordingly; secondly, approval of the rule amendments by the board of trustees together with support from the actuaries; thirdly, approval of the rule amendments by the board of directors of Transnet; fourthly, approval of the rule amendments by the Minister of Public Enterprises, together with the concurrence of the Minister of Finance; and lastly, rule amendments to be gazetted, at which time the amended increase policy can be implemented.
The response to the second part, as highlighted in the answer above, is that the additional financing required for the payment to the pensioners over and above the existing funds surplus is to be provided by Transnet. Payments can be effected once the pension funds governance process, as outlined above, has been completed. Thank you.
Chairperson, the DA welcomes the statement by the Minister of Finance, although this process has taken longer than it should have. It is vital that those pensioners who have been suffering in the absence of appropriate pension increases receive relief as soon as possible. According to the resolution taken by Parliament in November last year, Transnet pensioners should be given a lump sum back pay equal to five months' pension and annual increases calculated at 75% of CPI on an increased basic pension amount. The DA welcomes the statement that the Minister made today. Thank you.
Deputy Speaker, we welcome the support and, secondly, the fact that this matter might have taken longer than one anticipated is certainly not in our hands, so we regret that.
Deputy Speaker, I think the absence of the Freedom Front Plus in the House is an indication of how important they view this issue to be.
I will not ask a question but just make the following statement. This issue is currently not before Parliament or the executive or National Treasury. Transnet has already reported to the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises that they received a letter from the Minister of Public Enterprises in April 2011. The Transnet board met in June 2011 and instructed the management to find a funding solution based on the report from Parliament.
This is now a matter to be addressed between Transnet and the board of trustees of the two pension funds. Transnet, as the Minister has indicated, has already committed itself to cover any deficit. The administrative and statutory processes now need to be completed as soon as possible, as a matter of urgency. Thank you.
Thank you hon member. That was a comment, hon Minister.
Hon Vacant? [Laughter.] Seats press themselves. There's a vacant seat that just pressed the button.
Thank you, Deputy Speaker. I already made my statement. You already gave me the opportunity, and I just made the statement to the Minister. Thank you.
Measures to ensure blacklisting of service providers and company directors who have defrauded the state
98. Dr Z Luyenge (ANC) asked the Minister of Finance:
Whether the National Treasury has any measures in place to ensure that service providers and directors of companies who defrauded the state are blacklisted; if not, why not; if so, what measures?