Thank you very much, hon Speaker. Hon Rev Meshoe, at the Regenesys graduation ceremony to which you refer, I was addressing young management and leadership graduates. I encouraged them, as the leaders of tomorrow, to always engage in good governance practice, whether they are located in the private or public sectors.
I further conveyed that for any society to thrive, especially for the benefit of the poor, it has to have in place moderating mechanisms, plus checks and balances, because the system by its nature is imperfect. As the member should be aware, there are a number of initiatives and instruments, like the King Code, that promote ethical dealings by the business sector. Unless gaps are identified in these measures, among others, there is no need for further codes.
As for codes of ethics for politics, as the hon member is aware, there is the Executive Members' Ethics Act, which was passed by this House; the Code of Conduct for Members of Parliament, which is implemented by the Joint Ethics Committee of Parliament; as well as codes for Members of Provincial Legislatures and municipal councils. Unless otherwise determined by Parliament, there is no need for new codes.
However, hon member, let me reiterate that it is not so much the content of the existing codes - whether they be in the business or political spheres - but rather the adherence to and enforcement of these codes that is important. Thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Speaker, I give Rev Meshoe's apologies. He couldn't be here due to unforeseen circumstances. Thank you for your gracious response, hon Deputy President. I will pass the information on to the hon Rev Kenneth Meshoe.
The ACDP appreciates all efforts promoting ethical behaviour in government and society in general. Having had the opportunity to read your speech now, I have been inspired and encouraged. The following words of Dr Martin Luther King, which you began and ended your speech with, were particularly inspirational:
Cowardice asks the question: Is it safe? Expediency asks the question: Is it politic?. ... But conscience asks the question: Is it right? And there comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but because conscience tells one it is right. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr Speaker. Hon Deputy President, in your speech at the Regenesys graduation ceremony you said:
Each organisation and institution has an ethical culture which separates what is just and good from the bad and unjust.
And you continued to say -
We see a direct link in the practice of ethical leadership and transparent and representative governance.
We, in the DA, agree with the sentiments you expressed, but we would like to know from you, Mr Deputy President: How do you reconcile these statements about ethics, transparency and governance with the fact that the ANC continues to do business with government through its company, Chancellor House?
Hon Swart, with regard to the ANC and Chancellor House story, Chancellor House does not do business with government. Chancellor House bought a stake in a company called Hitachi Power Africa. It is Hitachi Power Africa that won a contract to supply boilers to Eskom. That is the closest, closest, closest link between Chancellor House and any government institution. It is the closest. Besides that, there is none. Chancellor House does not chase after government contracts at all. Thank you. [Applause.]
Thank you, hon Speaker. Hon Deputy President, you have referred to various pieces of legislation that would in effect promote an ethical code of conduct for both business and politics. However, in the recent past, we have had incidents of either senior Cabinet Ministers or directors- general or senior government officials either resigning from government or leaving government and, within a short space of time, joining companies which do business with government.
Would the hon Deputy President, in looking at the code of ethics, promote a cooling-off period where hon Cabinet Ministers or senior government officials do not involve themselves in business with companies for a period of 12 months or so, or any period that may be determined? Thank you.
Thank you very much, hon Singh. Yes, indeed, there should be a cooling-off period because it would not be correct for any senior politician or manager to prepare ground and then move outside to collect what they would have prepared whilst in government. I think a cooling-off period is very important, and that ought to be followed.
However, of course, you will also take into account the fact that, normally, people are employed as senior managers in government departments either in accordance with their skills or in accordance with what they would have qualified for. When they then leave the Public Service, it is natural that they would also operate in the same space precisely because of their strong points, and so on. So, we also have to accept that such things will happen. However, a cooling-off period is definitely a necessity; I agree with you. Thank you.
Speaker, the Deputy President has indicated that he believes that what Chancellor House is doing is okay because it has a specific interest in Hitachi, and is not directly doing business with government. Yet, the hon Deputy President must be aware that there are some other contracts - very controversial contracts - that have been awarded, and in respect of which the Public Protector has actually found that there are transgressions in the one instance, more so on the pronouncements made by the hon Minister of Communications.
In the other case, it was actually a saviour for the particular senior ANC politician who is the owner of SGL Engineering that municipal records could not really prove to the Public Protector what business he engaged in with local authorities. Can I just ask him whether he will assure us in this House today that government will close all those avenues within the codes of ethics, and implement very firm cooling-off periods so that we can avert the current insider trading that is taking place between senior officials and government? Thank you.
Hon Kilian is now raising issues about business activities of members of the ANC, rather than Chancellor House. I want us to be clear about that. These are now individual members of the ANC who are in business, or who have interests in business entities. That is a very grey area for the simple reason that South Africans have a right to partake in the economy of the country without exception.
At certain times, the relatives, or individuals, or friends, or acquaintances of people who hold political office are reduced to automatons that have no lives, skills, and experience of their own. They are regarded as people who can only benefit from the fact that they are blood relatives or friends to political office bearers. This is a very difficult area. I would like us to look at it in a just manner which also takes into account that individuals grow differently. Even if people are born of the same mother, they may pursue completely different paths as they develop. Then later, by virtue of having someone in the family or within your circle of friends who is a political office bearer, you are debarred from all other activities.
I think it is a bit of a challenge. I do know that perhaps what should be helpful in such instances is that - and I don't think this would be a difficulty, although it's a prejudice, but it may be helpful - where such individuals who are relatives of prominent office bearers succeed in life, in one way or the other, there should be a body - perhaps the Public Protector or somebody like that - that will be allowed to check whether or not something untoward has happened. If something untoward has happened, then we take steps to correct it. If there has been undue facilitation, it must not be allowed.
However, when people succeed on merit, of their own volition and on their own initiative, and if they are cleared by a body such as the Public Protector, then there should be no insinuations and innuendos. Even though, on the one hand, we want to fight against corruption - which is a serious problem - on the other hand, if everything is called corruption, then that is a problem.
For example, I have seen my name attached to somebody who was a member of the trade union when I was the general secretary. People raised concerns that this person and the Deputy President were in the same union at some point. Bear in mind that the person in question has been in business for many years, and so on. I am just saying that there are those kinds of things that do not help us to zero in on the nub of the problem.
What we should be dealing with is how we shall ensure that there is no undue manipulation and influence of processes, so that the law or tender processes apply, and people have equal access to these. I think that is the issue that we must look into. Thank you. [Applause.]