Hon Chairperson, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, today Parliament debates the Vote of Statistics SA as a stand-alone Vote for the first time since the establishment of democracy in this country.
For the past 16 years Statistics SA has always been part of something else. Initially it was part of the RDP Vote and was later incorporated into issues raised by the Minister of Finance. When the Ministry of Finance came to Parliament or to an Extended Public Committee, to debate the Treasury; the South African Revenue Service, Sars; the Development Bank of South Africa; the oversight of the Reserve Bank; the Public Investment Commission; and the Financial Intelligence Centre, three lines would be committed to Statistics SA. Because of the way in which this matter was dealt with, there have been unintended consequences.
The fact that this is being debated as a stand-alone Vote for the first time today is a cause for celebration, so I say "Cheers!", but it will have to be a virtual celebration because of the fiscal constraints and also because of what we've indicated the workload of Statistics SA will be over the next period.
In the context of the ash cloud generated by volcano Eyjafjallajkull in Iceland, flying and flight safety are exceedingly popular topics. Shall we fly? Can we fly? Where to? Why? The question is: How much information does a pilot need on the environment that he or she is flying into and, more importantly, about the response of the aircraft that they are flying?
Think about the important question that nobody has quite turned to of who generates the information that pilots need. And what are the consequences of such information that would indicate to a pilot the altitude, speed, wind direction, etc? What are the consequences of such information being incorrect? Who checks that the instrument gauges are accurately calibrated?
In truth, the work of a statistical agency is no different to that of the avionic engineers who provide pilots with certainty. It would indeed be strange if those who travel to Johannesburg on a weekly basis regularly ended up in places like Windhoek or George - although our luggage ends up there sometimes. We want the safety of knowing that the pilots have accurate and well-calibrated gauges when they fly.
For the statistical agency the client base is different: not pilots, but policy-making and not aviation safety authorities, but Parliament. And the information must inform decisions, primarily about the economy and people's lives. What is consistent is that the information must be readily available, usable and indeed reliable.
The opportunity presented by this debate is, in many respects, the start of Parliament's engagement with the statistical outputs in order that Parliament will know that these outputs meet the quality standards because this then becomes the heart of oversight, not merely of Statistics SA, but of all of the government's functions.
Parliamentarians need to know about the number of houses being built, learners in schools, visits to public health facilities and jobs created. These are very important parts of information that Parliament must know; so the quality of statistics becomes vital to answering those issues, not just in general but as part of parliamentary oversight.
It's accepted across the world that official statistics are used to inform Parliament and political assemblies about the state of the nation and provide a window on the work and performance of government.
Firstly, this allows these political assemblies to assess the impact of their policies over time and between different areas.
Secondly, it provides Ministers with a picture of the economy and society, enabling them to formulate economic and social policies and to monitor and evaluate their delivery.
Thirdly, statistics permit government and its agencies, at all levels, to carry out their business efficiently and effectively and to make informed decisions based on evidence.
Fourthly, it provides citizens with a view of society and of the work and performance of government. Statistics show the scale of government activity in every area of public policy, allowing the impact of government policies and actions to be assessed.
Fifthly, it furnishes businesses with statistical services that promotes the effective and efficient functioning of industry and commerce and assists analysts, researchers, scholars and students with their work and studies.
It's important that we acknowledge the challenge of the attitudes faced by Statistics SA in the process of compiling the data. The enemy being faced is the cavalier behaviour frequently of persons surveyed and public servants who are tasked with providing correct and current information. If people tell untruths in response to questions about their circumstances, Statistics SA will generate statistical series that are quite unreliable. Unfortunately, for the people providing wrong information, there are no consequences.
And then, there are public servants who provide incorrect information - either as a consequence of omission or commission. But today I want to invite Parliament to assist with remedying this unhealthy situation.
Firstly, we must all work together to ensure that all citizens appreciate that each of us has a civic duty, which includes providing accurate information when requested. This becomes a task for all organs of society, elected representatives in all spheres and all parties, religious leaders, trade unions and educational institutions together.
If we cannot measure either what has been done or what remains to be done, we cannot allocate resources or plan improvements. If the appeal to civic duty fails to yield the correct responses, we will have to come back to Parliament to explore with Parliament the means to insist on compliance.
As part of its mandate, Statistics SA has to collect information from both households and businesses. Often, it has to ask about similar issues and compile a view on the same issue from the perspective of business and another view from the perspective of households.
An example of this is the measurement of the labour market, which measures both the number of jobs in the form of the Quarterly Employment Survey and the level of employment in the form of the Quarterly Labour Force Survey. These are two closely related concepts that are measured using two different sets of instruments and directed at two different audiences. Now, those of us who are here as nonstatisticians battle with these things.
One of our deputy directors-general last week in the discussion said that there are statisticians and then there are the rest of you, the rest of us, the rest of the people, who battle with these fine distinctions between things like the QES and the QLFS.
The measurement of jobs is directed at businesses and asks about the number of persons they employ or the number of job opportunities that exist and are occupied. To measure employment levels, data is gathered directly through household surveys. This information not only gives an indication of the number of employed persons as in the QES, but it also better measures the rate of unemployment.
What should become clear is that the different surveys must correlate with other information. But sometimes we see that the QES and the QLFS actually throw up results that are quite different. It's quite important that we understand how these things work.
An area that will improve the compilation of our economic statistics and enhance better service delivery is the business registration reform. In committing to speed up the country's economic growth and transforming the economy to create decent work and sustainable livelihoods, President Zuma identified in his state of the nation address, on 3 June 2009, the reform of the business registration system as a key priority when he said and, I quote:
In another intervention to create an enabling environment for investments, government will move towards a single integrated business registration system. This will improve customer service and reduce the cost of doing business in South Africa.
Statistics SA, Sars and the Department of Trade and Industry have set up a joint project and will work together to achieve this government object. The first appointments to the project team were made at the beginning of this financial year. This project will not succeed without the fullest collaboration of all the government partners, including the Companies and Intellectual Property Registration Office, which must maintain a current and reliable business register.
If you don't have a business register, you can't sample, if you can't sample; accurately, you can't expect anything that approximates trends in the labour market.
While it is estimated that the project will take three years to complete, Parliament will have to monitor the delivery by political and administrative heads of these institutions to ensure that the targets are indeed met.
To get a measure of both quantitative and qualitative public services, government and Parliament alike need dependable statistics. We know what funds are allocated, after all. Parliament votes these funds in the Appropriation Act. Part of the process in discussing different Budget Votes is dealing with this in some detail over a fairly lengthy period of time.
The independent audit system provides, or ought to provide information about the general utilisation of these financial resources. But we do not yet know enough about how the funds are disbursed nor do we have an adequate measure of the actual services that the financial resources pay for. We require sound administrative record-based sources for the data to form the basis of the national statistics system. The system should begin to provide a complete picture of government delivery and in the process identify gaps.
If the education statistics point to a low percentage of matriculants with maths and science passes, government may want to consider providing incentives for specialised training for teachers in these subjects. Colleges may need to consider providing bridging courses.
If the statistics from a specific health clinic point to a preponderance of a particular disease, we may want to investigate the environmental factors that cause this particular predisposition.
However, if we want this, then every cost centre must generate data that will inform an information management system within the function of the course of its work. So, your education management information must tell you how many learners there are on any given day. It must be able to indicate how many educators are there. We must know the state of the infrastructure where learning and teaching takes place.
It's also important that we know how many books are purchased, when the orders are placed and when they are delivered. This kind of information becomes vital to knowing the quality of an education system. You don't just wait until about 5 or 6 of January when you have matric results. You must know these things in the course of what happens.
Similarly, I think in the health system we need to know how many visits there are, what people are visiting health facilities for, if they are issued with pharmaceuticals by dispensaries and what they are issued for. You must be able to verify these kinds of things. If we are spending the amount of money on ARVs that this country does, then we must know which patients are actually receiving them.
If you can't verify these kinds of things, then all of Parliament and all of the allocations that we make through the Appropriation Act must have a serious question mark hanging over them. But collecting this information must be done in the course of what health workers, educators and others do in the system, and the national statistical system must then bring all of these together.
This is a challenge that confronts us. We must become much better at delivering democracy and we will not be able to attain this without a competent and trusted statistical system. This information also becomes important for a statistical system that informs evidence-based policy- making to drive future changes.
This brings me back to the point made earlier with regard to the role of public servants and the provision of accurate information. The responsibility for accurate administrative records should not only be a civic duty, but should also be linked to performance measurement of officials. We must accept then that in some cases there are challenges in this regard in terms of the administrative burden placed on some already overworked service providers.
At the same time, however, we must also acknowledge that public servants need to understand that it's imperative that accurate information is provided. Statistics SA is only able to compile an accurate reflection of services if the data provided to them is accurate.
Once again, we appeal to the Members of Parliament to take this matter seriously when performing oversight and holding government to account. It's important that Parliament and the public begin to understand the strategic role of statistics and the importance of evidence-based decision-making. In terms of the Statistics Act, the role of the Minister is limited to determining what is measured. How it's measured is left to the Statistician- General and his team.
The role of the SA Statistics Council is to provide us, the public and Parliament alike, with the assurance that the methods are scientific and comply with national and international standards such as the United Nations Fundamental Principles for Official Statistics; the Special Data Dissemination Standards, agreed to in the framework of the International Monetary Funds; and the eight dimensions of quality specified in the South African Statistical Quality Framework.
The consumer price index is an exceedingly important measure of both wellbeing and change. It is also the most widely used of the statistics series. It is used by the Monetary Policy Committee of the Reserve Bank in their setting of the repurchase rate, which is a key determinant of interest rates. It is also used as a key measure in wage bargaining.
It is therefore essential that the CPI approximates as closely as possible the impact of price changes on the living standards of families. In fact, it's for that reason that the CPI was quite significantly retooled just a few years ago and the process completed last year.
Amongst the changes introduced, there was a change to the basket of goods measured - what do we eat, what do we spend our wages on? Previous measures excluded things like cellphones, the Lotto and so on. These now needed to be brought into the basket. There was a simultaneous change to the weights of the various goods and services in the basket.
To compile this, the income and expenditure survey was instituted. It asked 30 000 families to record an income and expenditure diary over a period of a month. Once the baseline was changed, the updates were then captured in a modern form. This innovation puts our CPI on a par with the best in the world.
It is envisaged that retooling is expected to be done more frequently, at intervals of three years, as products in the basket change and as people experience greater social and geographic mobility. Then a more intricate process of calculation of products by amounts spent and the number of people consuming the products generates the basket for the CPI. Against this base, prices on selected goods are collected monthly from outlets and price changes are recorded to calculate a monthly CPI figure.
The related price index is the producer price index, PPI, which to date is not as robust in its product coverage. In Australia, for instance, the PPI is treated as a lead indicator to the extent that it acts as a harbinger for indicators downstream.
The PPI in South Africa is in the process of being retooled so that we too can begin to see the linkages between factory gate prices and store prices. Another product to be presented before Cabinet and Parliament soon is the Poverty Line. The measurement is designed to produce statistical information on poverty and inequality from a multi-dimensional perspective. And we will do so at regular intervals. Again, relevant, good-quality data is a key element of the Integrated Antipoverty and Inequality Framework.
The poverty line is an analytical tool using multiple sources of information such as the consumption expenditure basket; the income and expenditure survey, IES; and information from dietary protocols provided by the Medical Research Council, amongst other sources. This provides an indication of a food line across the different income brackets, which is then used to determine a representative food basket and a per capita food requirement. Basic requirements such as clothing, shelter and transport are added to provide a poverty line. It is envisaged that the line will be updated annually by the CPI.
Having noted the strategic importance of statistics earlier, it's therefore vitally important that the communicators of information are here - see how full they've made the gallery today, all of these wonderful journalists we have, who have an interest in our lives and who are part of the Parliamentary Gallery Association. They are here in their numbers and the place is crowded. It's probably because we are so "snoep" [stingy] with the food or something! [Laughter.] If our journalists are not up to date and don't understand the value of their information, ordinary South Africans will never appreciate this work. Then there's no measure and everything is left to guess work. You may as well treat the statistical outputs in the same way as you treat, I don't know what. When do you play the Lotto - Wednesday, Thursday? Whatever day. You treat it like playing the Lotto. You just click on numbers and, clearly, it's a poor indicator of everything.
Now, what Statistics SA has done, and this is part of the return they are getting, is that they've started a series of workshops, seemingly well attended; seemingly the journalists were fed on that occasion - to begin to create areas of expertise in the news so that at least a basis is being provided for statistics going forward. [Interjections.]
Hon Minister, your time has expired, but you have 10 minutes for your closing time and you can take a few minutes from it.
Thank you, Chairperson. Inaccurate reporting not only damages the public confidence in the products of Statistics SA, but also affects the attitudes of those providing the information.
I want to turn to what is going to be important over the next three years or so in the life of Statistics SA, and that is the work to be done on Census 2011. It's the third census that South Africa can conduct since we earned democracy and the census has become the basis of our national statistics system.
It is, in fact, the biggest peacetime mobilisation of the population. In October next year, 120 000 people will be put in the field to canvass information from 13 million dwellings. They will be asking residents of the households for information about their age, gender, level of education, employment, language, access to services and a range of other things.
In our previous censuses there were a number of lessons we learnt and what was discussed last week in the committee was that we were concerned about the undercount of 10% in 1996, and 17% in 2001. Now, what puts me at war with the Statistician-General and his team is a call I would like to make, and I hope it will be supported by this committee, and that is that we should tolerate no more than a 2% undercount in 2011. It's a tough call, but a necessary one and it's a tough call partly because people don't want to provide the information. So many people have reasons not to provide the information.
One of the issues that presents us with the problem is that too many South Africans live in gated communities and enumerators can't get in. Another problem that we encounter is that there are people who receive services in different parts of the country. They have RDP houses in one part, they live in another part and they don't want the government to know where they are.
There are people who are in the country illegally and want to live twilight lives. There are families on farms that have been displaced by farmers and they've now been replaced with illegal workers. You can't get onto these farms to measure and all of these things add up to this undercount problem. When we ask of Parliament to take these issues seriously, it's because we need to know how many South Africans there are and what our quality of life is.
In areas where services are needed, all of this is not a party - political function, it's a governmental function and I truly believe that Parliament should play a greater role in overseeing that we can actually crack through what we know now.
Let me end by saying that our flight plan is, of course, that which we can measure as improvements in the quality of lives of people. We should agree that whilst significant progress has been made, we are not approaching our destination nearly fast enough and that the fuel for this journey - financial resources and a competent Public Service-are not being efficiently used. Our instrument gauge in the cockpit must tell us all of these things.
Statistics SA runs the avionics to calibrate the gauges on the instrument panel. If we want improvement, we must read those gauges and know that their reliability is never in question. This is hard work, mostly behind- the-scenes work and always thankless work.
I want to deviate from this last point by expressing our appreciation to the Statistician-General, Mr Pali Lehohla, and his competent team who need the confidence of this Parliament to do what they must do. I also want to thank the SA Statistics Council, led so ably and diligently by Mr Howard Gabriels.
I then wish to thank members of the Portfolio Committee on Finance for the many hours of oversight and engagement which Statistics SA will have from you.
We have only just began to live together in this area. I could sing the song if you wanted me to, Chair! An enhanced collaboration and a keener oversight will deliver a better quality of democracy. I thank you. [Applause.]
Hon Chairperson, on a point of order: I didn't want to interrupt Mr Manuel whilst he was in full flight because we all enjoyed listening to him. I hope I can speak on behalf of everybody.
The problem is that he has taken a lot of the time that is allocated, actually, for answering the questions. At the end, there are always questions and we would also like hear his answers to some of the points raised. So we are concerned about the time constraint at the end.
Perhaps it's possible for the ANC to find time to give to the Minister so that he can properly address the concerns that might come up during the debate.
Maybe we could pay overtime at time and a third!
It's usually the case that, should there be any time-saving on the side of the ANC, we will add it to the Minister's time. Let's just see what happens.
Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, Statistician- General Pali Lehohla, SA Statistics Council chairperson and team, I just want to make sure that the hon members on the other side are comfortable that at the end of this deliberation the Minister will have enough time to respond - not that the ANC would do that. I am saying this because the members of the Standing Committee on Finance have had a very good working relationship, therefore that time will be given from both sides.
Let me say that the fourth democratic Parliament defines itself and its character as an activist Parliament, active within and in support of a developmental state; and such a state will always put the interests of its people at the centre of all its programmes.
I thought I should begin by restating the obvious, because we have already pronounced on who we are and where we are going. Such a programme will be underpinned by decent jobs, health, education, fighting crime and corruption, and rural development.
Now, for a developmental state to achieve its objectives, developmental planning underpinned by developmental growth is paramount and non- negotiable. That is to say, we need to talk about growth that is guided in terms of investment and sometimes through state intervention.
The priorities of such a state must be informed by the basic needs of the people, particularly the poor and the most vulnerable, and not only by the aspirations and wants of those who already live with abundance.
The success or failure will not depend entirely on the availability of resources, but most importantly on the state's ability to prioritise and its political will to act against nonperformance and complacence. Secondly, if it cannot plan it cannot monitor and it cannot measure or evaluate.
Therefore, a developmental state must have the capacity to plan, co- ordinate, implement and monitor all its programmes and align those programmes in terms of the needs of the people. For planning to occur it must know what it has. It is in that spirit that the establishment of the two Ministries in the Presidency should be given reliable information and the statistical information to align and take all government programmes forward.
Minister, let me say that the establishment of the Ministries and the relocation of Statistics SA in the Presidency - which is in line with the Constitution, as the Statistician-General is appointed only by the President of the Republic - will not be sufficient for a government to succeed. We need to see an office that is fully resourced and skilled to help the entire government to plan better and efficiently.
We therefore support Budget Vote No 12 because, in our view as the ANC, it is the bedrock and foundation of all key priorities as reflected in our manifesto and the state of the nation address. Statistical information is about knowing what is there and what requires attention, so that we can move away from fixing and demolishing things that are not broken at the expense of what really needs to be fixed.
The strategic plans of the department relate to all our key priorities. Now, amongst other things that have been a political football, are the statistics around crime. Let me quote from the book of Owen Harari; he was quoting Colin Powell, who had said:
Keep looking below surface appearances. Don't shrink from doing so just because you might not like what you find.
I am saying this because this information is critical for society to know and to evaluate to what extent community forums can be part and parcel of fighting crime. But as political parties we should desist from using such information for political gain. In order for us to understand the relevance of this subject, it may be important to remember, comfortably or uncomfortably, where we have come from as a nation.
I just want to add to what you have reflected on in terms of the census, which I will not be deliberating on because my colleagues will be doing so. You know, when I grew up in the rural areas of Limpopo, we called the political activists of the time under the Bantustan "bonkgetheng", meaning "those who wanted to be elected". And those who were counting us, we used to call "bommalabatho".
Now, the problem with this, hon Minister, is not just the mindset that needed to be shifted in the past 16 years, but its relationship with the notorious Influx Control Act, section 10(a), 10(b), 10(c) and 10(d). Of course, those who were born after 1994 may not know what I am talking about. The counting of people was closely associated with being arrested and probably being charged for "loaferskap" [loitering]. Secondly, it may have meant being permanently separated from your family and being deported.
New dynamics have arisen, which the Minister has already alluded to, and I will not go into that. But I think Statistics SA needs to take all these experiences into consideration as it seeks to bring forward and mobilise society around Census 2011. I like the slogan that says - and the people have already embraced their own participation as an active society - "Nothing about us without us".
I think it is important that you don't think that you can count people successfully if they themselves are not part of that process. Some of us may feel a sense of discomfort when our past is revisited because the immunity of our past has been made synonymous with an immoral culture of racism.
Hard as it may be, hon members, let us remember that it would not be possible for any of us to move forward if the benchmark of our goal is based on an abstract past. The sooner we come to terms with this, the better.
In the same breath, the present is not the ideal time to start weeping for a glorious past which never was, but rather our energy should be directed towards a tomorrow founded on nonracialism, freedom and prosperity for all.
Side by side with the negotiation processes at Codesa that sought to produce the South Africa that we have today, the ANC and its alliance partners, together with broader civil society, started asking the question: What will the immediate goals of our democratic government be?
As a precursor to our Reconstruction and Development Programme, and from a perspective that we termed "Ready to govern!" in response to this question, we said: We will require an integrated, coherent socioeconomic policy framework to mobilise all our people and our country's resources for the final eradication of apartheid and the building of a democratic, nonracial and nonsexist society.
We also said that we would develop a detailed position and legislative programme of governance to achieve the stated objectives.
To make mention of these references reminds us of who we are and what we are today; and the mere mentioning of the word "apartheid", hon members, should not be interpreted as a whipping up of emotions or as a direct attack against the other racial groups.
Talking about the past, the pain, the sacrifices and the heroic struggles of our people were often expressed through songs, which should not and must not be read on the same page as hate speech. However, this must be seen as a common heritage that we should all be proud of. It is, in fact, because of those songs that we can proudly say that we are a nation envied by many.
In order for us to progress as a nation, information-gathering and management should not be ignored or undermined by following in the footsteps of the past government, whose intention was to create no-go zones for others as stipulated in the previous Act that I mentioned.
Under our Constitution, the management and evaluation of our statistical information is the explicit domain of Statistics SA. Neither the Minister nor the President can change, but they can engage. The purpose of this is mainly to ensure that nobody should use this information for his or her political objectives.
Statistics SA centres on people and must therefore be mechanised by people, particularly when it comes to Census 2011. We should administer this function in a manner that allows people to own the process, because without their co-operation the work of the institution can be very difficult. These plans have been constructed on the basis of information which provides measurable inputs and outputs as we progress as a nation. Government can only plan if the information before it is credible and reliable. It is this body of information that can assist in measuring the size of the problem at hand as well as the allocation of resources according to the size of the problem. Statistics are central to the Division of Revenue Bill and the three spheres of government.
Failure to provide proper information may lead to underutilisation and underbudgeting. In both instances service delivery and service provision are compromised, and the poor become a casualty of all these things.
The planning Ministry cannot only depend on what has been sampled and presented to guide the planning process of government. The sources which supply information must submit well-researched and analysed statistical information which is credible, concise, and relevant and we must not be scared to expect excellence in this regard.
We therefore have an inherent responsibility to ensure that the relevant skills and capacity are built up in all the departments and spheres of government dealing with information-gathering, particularly the Ministries involved in education, information technology, health and social development because this is where most of our problems are in terms of resource allocation.
As we face the pressures of service delivery, the use of authentic and quality data in our planning processes will ensure that we begin to procure services and inventory which are required, as opposed to procuring excess inventory to feed the collateral system of corruption and abuse of government processes. Thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, the global financial crisis currently being written into history as the cause of the great recession reveals a number of shortcomings in the operation of the financial marketplace. It reveals that interruptions in the flow of cash within the global financial system can destroy and disrupt activity in the real economy, and that risk is not only about pricing and volatility.
It revealed that data not properly collected, analysed and understood can have devastating consequences. Statistics SA is the official source of important data that informs the daily decisions of all participants in our economy.
When the size of government was unnecessarily increased last year with the establishment of the Ministry in the Presidency for National Planning, executive authority over Statistics SA was transferred from the Minister of Finance to the Minister of National Planning. There was no discussion over this in Parliament, nor was there any clarity on how Parliament would hold Statistics SA to account, and there still isn't any. The Standing Committee on Finance has considered the budget and strategic plans of Statistics SA for 2010-11 and has made its recommendations. There is, however, no certainty about whether we will ever see Statistics SA again or whether we will receive any feedback on our recommendations. As a result of this confusion, we only received feedback a few days ago on the recommendations we made in June 2009. This does not make for effective oversight.
The DA has proposed that a committee should be established to provide oversight over the Presidency. Hopefully this will resolve the unacceptable situation in which the Standing Committee on Finance appears to be involved with the current Statistics SA's strategy and budget at the whim of the Minister, necessitated by the requirement for Parliament to approve its budget.
We need to be sure of exactly where the oversight accountability lies, especially in the lead-up to Census 2011 and the massive public participation that will be required in this crucial activity of national importance.
It is pleasing to see that action has been taken on our previous recommendations. That includes the following: an awareness programme for the census; improvements to communication to avoid public misunderstanding when statistical results are publicised, particularly on the issue of methodologically acceptable statistical adjustments that are misreported as manipulation of the results; plans to reduce the vacancy rate; and progress on the single integrated business registration system.
Every day millions of participants in our economy make a number of decisions based on data and information that they receive all the time from many sources. This is the basis on which the market economy operates. We do know that this is not fully efficient given the fact and the extent of asymmetrical information as highlighted in the financial crisis.
In its pursuit of a so-called developmental state, government, however, assumes that it can plan centrally and that a small group in a commission can process vast amounts of data to inform the decisions they make regarding the allocation of our scarce resources. This is, no doubt, the reason why executive authority for Statistics SA was shifted to the new Ministry.
In this model the role of Statistics SA becomes crucial to informing the actions of the central decision-maker. Statistics SA's strategic plan reflects its commitment to a major shift in the way it discharges its mandate. It will move towards accessing administrative records as a source of statistical data.
While the survey method provided a primary data source - and its use will be continued - this new method will yield secondary data and be reliant on the administration that supplies it. In its presentation to the committee, Statistics SA expressed its concern over the reliability of these data sources, especially those from the Companies and Intellectual Properties Registration Office.
In its work programme Statistics SA pointed out the poor quality of some of our public services, declining trust and confidence in public institutions, and weak planning across the three spheres of government. Under these circumstances, it will be necessary for Statistics SA to treat the data emanating from government departments with the appropriate level of circumspection, especially if these are informing decisions of national economic importance.
Management of government departments must be improved to ensure that the data they generate is valid and reliable. In its feedback from last year on the development of the South African Statistical Quality Assessment Framework - which aims to improve the quality of all statistics used for the public good - to ensure their elevation to the status of official statistics, Statistics SA reports that the demand for training provision on SASQAF is increasing beyond its capacity. This needs to be addressed if meaningful data are to be extracted from government departments.
Anecdotal evidence from the former Eastern European centrally planned economies reflected how a surplus of shoes for left feet was produced as a result of faulty data. The burden of higher demand for data for central planning will fall to Statistics SA and they must be equipped to meet that demand.
The DA prefers a less intrusive role for the state in the economy - as facilitator rather than central planner and controller of economic activity. The role of Statistics SA should be to enrich the capacity of individual participants in the economy to make the most efficient decisions about the allocation of our scarce resources. The purpose of statistics is to inform the decision-makers, who turn it into usable information. It is not clear how the National Planning Commission will interface with Statistics SA and how the advisory panel appointed by the Minister of Economic Development will interface with the National Planning Commission and Statistics SA. This requires clarity to avoid any uncertainty, which our economy does not need.
The strategic plan makes reference to a new era for statistical development in South Africa which results from the need for evidence-based policy- making. This means that Statistics SA needs to go beyond providing quantitative statistics and ask the qualitative question of why a phenomenon yields a particular result.
What action will be required to encourage the statistic in the right direction? Another question that needs to be asked is: What is it that we do not know about our economy? There are still many quantitative questions that we haven't answered yet. For example, how big is the informal sector? How much illicit trading is going on in our economy? Are recent reports on illicit financial flows from our economy correct? How big is the mismatch between earned and declared income in our economy? Then we need to look at why this is so and the necessary remedies.
We need a firm understanding of the socioeconomic impediments to economic growth and development. The Minister of National Planning, when he was Minister of Finance, promised in his Budget Speech that a poverty line index would be released within weeks. We did ask for progress on this on several occasions and were told that it was in progress.
The Minister has mentioned that it will be available shortly. When exactly will it be in place? Poverty is an enormous threat to our stability and must be addressed. The poverty line data is vital to achieve this objective.
Interdepartmental collaboration to improve the quality of statistics available for policy-making decisions is a welcome step in the right direction. More comprehensive statistics on education and health can enrich the debate on how to achieve the most benefit from the application of limited resources. Effective statistics can inform meaningful interventions in the right place and at the right time.
Crime statistics are generally perceived to be understated and unavailable for public scrutiny. This statistical information and quality gap will not be closed until a robust system is established that proves itself to be accurate and accessible over time.
Statistics SA's support to the SA Police Service will enable it to deliver better statistics and to package them for more effective communication.
We also need more in-depth demographic and social analysis. Our ancestors have been migrating for millions of years. We need to take this phenomenon for granted and ensure that we can understand the impact that this will have on the ability of government to deliver those basic services that define our economy as functional and caring.
Our education system is not producing sufficient numbers of numerate learners and students who want to pursue a career in statistics. It is possible to enthuse young people about the magical qualities of numbers; how a close analysis of patterns formed by a set of numbers can tell a remarkable story just waiting to be discovered; and that a set of financial statements can read like a storybook, just written in another language, the language of numbers. To achieve this, we need more teachers with better skills in mathematics.
Census 2011 offers an opportunity to generate interest in what Statistics SA does, why it does it and how it contributes to the unfolding story of South Africa.
Why not hold a competition for entrants to make predictions about the results that the census will reveal? For example, how many people are resident in South Africa? How many are under the age of 18? What is the average age? This will help to develop a culture where it's cool to be counted and help reduce the undercount over time. My colleague, hon Swart, will address this issue in greater detail.
The cost-cutting initiatives implemented by Statistics SA are welcome and these should be extended to other departments.
Statistics SA also needs to ensure that it achieves and maintains world- class standards in its technical work. Its international collaboration with statistics bodies across the globe is encouraged and should continue to be strengthened over time.
There is ongoing debate on the adequacy of statistical measures such as GDP and we must ensure that we participate in and follow the debate, given that our own economy has unique features that are of interest to the broader international community of statisticians and economists. Attention must remain focused on continual improvements to the sampling frames, because "garbage in is garbage out". Statistics SA's reputation is recovering from the damage caused by the CPI measurement fiasco, but it will be recalled every time that the numbers produced by Statistics SA goes wrong. This can be avoided by continual improvements to the process of statistics production and rigorous quality control.
There is a risk that Statistics SA will be swallowed by the Ministry in the Presidency for National Planning and provide statistics to support the policy decisions made by the National Planning Commission and the advisory panel to the Minister of Economic Development, and not the other way around. This needs to be avoided.
The only way to ensure this beyond doubt and enhance public confidence and trust in statistics is to implement an unambiguous process for oversight over Statistics SA. Statistics SA is improving over time and is a valuable national asset that serves us well in our quest to improve the lives of all the people in South Africa. Its efforts are greatly appreciated.
The DA is committed to its success. We should focus on the future, Hon Mufamadi, and not dwell on the past. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Chairperson, with the few minutes allocated to me I will talk about the importance of statistics in the war against poverty. I was privileged to meet Yoweri Kaguta Museveni in the early 90s, who said:
Whatever we do we are guided by figures.
He is right, because the essential component of any development planning is data, and I must add, "the correct data". Without evidence-based data our country's efforts to plan future growth are flawed, because you lose contact with reality and your decisions become politically driven.
Therefore those who think money is not well-spent on the gathering of correct statistics are wrong. Statistics play a vital role in poverty reduction. That's why we do celebrate, together with the hon Minister today, that this debate about statistics is a stand-alone debate.
The power of correct statistics can be seen when you implement your policy frameworks based on correct data and it does, in fact, have a positive outcome. Reliable statistics describe the reality of people's lives. They tell us exactly where the poor are, why they are poor and how they are where they live. If we do not gather this correctly we are wasting money and time.
With this information you develop and monitor effective policies; and I do not think we are there yet in South Africa, but we must try for that. Good statistics highlight where resources are most needed. They provide transparency and accountability of policy-making and are essential for good governance.
Without good statistics, there cannot be effective delivery of basic services and therefore reduction of poverty. According to studies by PARIS21, a global partnership of statisticians, many developing countries still lack the capacity to produce quality statistics. May South Africa never be there.
We had a troublesome start to the new millennium as far as good, reliable statistics are concerned, and we shall probably never be able to quantify the damage that we have suffered because of unreliable statistics and the inability to produce good census figures.
If one adds these to the pre-1994 statistics, it becomes very important that we rectify this now and in the next five years. The problem is that poor countries cannot afford not to invest in reliable statistics, but so many times they do not invest.
Tadao Chino, the former Asian Development Bank President, said:
Sound data represent a key weapon in the battle against poverty.
In 2007, Statistics SA announced that South Africa will be committed to halving poverty by 2015, and that they would develop an official poverty line or indicator for South Africa. The hon Minister has mentioned that we are basically three years down the line. We want to know where exactly that process is. Has it been developed and the question is: Is it working?
The evidence we're getting from the ground is that the poverty indicator or line is really not out in the field and is not working. The idea of a poverty line is to monitor household vulnerability; we must know that.
It should not only address a measure of money - income required to attain a basic, minimal standard of living - but it must also monitor progress in poverty reduction. We still need to decide whether the Minister links this to the CPI, as he has mentioned that we are moving to a sort of different definition of CPI. Will it not be more appropriate specifically for a poverty line to link it to the price trends of a specific basket of a daily energy requirement per person?
Obviously it's moving, but don't we need to see two CPIs, one for poverty and one that we can use more in the microeconomic field? In March 2009, the Human Sciences Research Council published a paper on food security in South Africa on the question: What can be said about the food security status of South Africans? They have found the following: Firstly, there is little certainty about the household food security status, and we need better surveys to rectify this.
Secondly, there has been a dramatic fall in the experience of hunger since 2002, but undernutrition remains a serious problem.
Thirdly, food insecurity is chronic in this country. Policies that focus on poverty needs and in rural areas will not reach the largest number of those in need. Half of the households who are often or always hungry, are eligible but do not receive grants.
Do we know this, and if we do why do we not rectify it? The majority of small-scale farmers, they have found, are young people - the vulnerable youth of this country - and they have found a serious neglect of this group. That is why the HSRC wants an urgent food security target to be identified and announced by government.
They want government to establish a national system to monitor food security and Statistics SA, therefore, to include a special food security module in the general household survey. Cope will obviously support such an initiative.
The challenge is to develop a workable poverty indicator backed up by reliable and correct data. Therefore, it is essential that Statistics SA collects data regularly, maybe six times a year, to monitor the food basket and to ensure that the poverty line is sensitive to food security and household vulnerability. If they succeed, they will make a big contribution to the fight against poverty.
Cope wishes Statistics SA and the hon Minister all the best in this fight and we trust that he will, with the same energy that he has displayed as the Minister of Finance, do justice to Statistics SA for the wellbeing of all South Africans. Thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, statistically speaking, I can't give away any time because I only have five minutes.
Let me congratulate the hon Minister and the Statistician-General, or SG, on a job well done. I do know that the SG has been there for about 10 years now, and has done an excellent job thus far. It seems that the hon Minister has acted like a magnet, because Statistics SA fell under Finance and now it's following the Minister to the Presidency; so the Minister has some kind of charm magnet.
The hon Minister used a metaphor of pilots using certain information and instruments when they fly us around, and they have to rely on statistics. While it is important for pilots to use the statistical information that is available, it is also equally important for the passengers to know what the pilot is doing up front, because a pilot can crash into a mountain. This reminds me of two passengers who were on a flight at night, AND who were talking about what makes the plane fly in the way that it does. One passenger told the other one to look through the window and asked if he could see the red light there. The passenger said yes, and he then said he should try and look through the other window. He asked if he could see the other red light; the passenger said yes. He then said that what the pilots do is fly in between the two red lights! [Laughter.]
While we cannot overemphasise the importance of statistical data and information, I think equally important is reliability, which has been referred to by other colleagues and the Minister, its accessibility as well as its user-friendliness.
I want to pause and say that many people don't know how to use the statistics that are provided. There are complicated graphs and all sorts of information, which I think the ordinary person needs to know.
Coincidentally, I received a call from a schoolteacher a few days ago who wanted to know about poverty indexes. I told her to go to the website of Statistics SA and she would find it; but I think with Census 2011 coming up it is an ideal opportunity for the department to be able to market itself better.
We must also be careful about selective use of statistics and their manipulation, such as what we saw happen at the police station in Pietermaritzburg, where the station commissioner and others have been fired because of the manipulation of statistics to make the police station and the statistics look good.
Statistics SA, therefore, has a responsibility to co-ordinate to ensure that they work with all departments within government to make sure that the information that they give to us, as the public, is credible.
They say that until somebody counts the problems, nobody does anything about that. So, we have to count the problems and the Minister is quite right to emphasise that.
Mark Twain once said:
There are three kinds of commonly recognised untruths: lies, damn lies and statistics.
We do hope that that doesn't apply to Statistics SA and the kind of information that they put out!
I would like to ask a few questions about things like missing value. The Minister is quite right when he says that many people don't easily disclose some of the information that is required of them, particularly those in affluent areas. They do not want to disclose; the illegal immigrants that we spoken about do not disclose. So, how does one deal with this?
We have the undercount problem which the Minister referred to, the 10%, and 17%. Ten years from now is it going to be 30%? How are we going to strike a balance to ensure that there is some measure?
In Australia and in the United States the undercount is at 1,8%; and I think I will disagree when the Minister says 2% for Statistics SA. It's a bit of a tall order in the short term, but I think in the medium term ... [Interjections.] ... we can look at 2%. But I think we have to set a more reasonable target.
One of the areas that we could probably look at is incentivisation. How do we come up with incentive measures? The Minister spoke about civic duty, but how many people really show allegiance to this country? How can we give people incentives?
We all get calls: Sometimes they are from people asking us if we would like another cellphone, to go on a holiday, to do this and that, and if we give the correct answer we will win R500,00 or get a trip to Robben Island or Pofadder, or something like that. [Laughter.]
Maybe we need to start looking at incentives along the same line. It would be sad if we have to do that, but it is something that we need to look at.
Then there's compulsion. How do we compel people to reveal statistics, accurate or inaccurate? In certain countries one is compelled to vote, and there is a list of countries that I have. You have to register as a voter and you have to vote. How can ... As the IFP, we support the Vote. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Chairperson, hon Minister of the National Planning Commission, Trevor Manuel, hon members, the Statistician-General and officials, sanibonani. [I greet you.].
Maybe one needs to start with an obvious thing such as definitions so that we don't have any confusion. We should try to differentiate between a survey and a census.
A survey is when somebody is looking for something or inspecting something, while during a census you count for a survey of the population. The other two terms - yes, it's free education - are individual information and public information.
Individual information is very confidential and it is used exclusively for a particular reason, while the public is entitled to have access to the public information. I am providing these definitions because our friends across the House tend to confuse these issues. We assume that they know because they are public figures but, unfortunately, that is not the case. We need to know this information.
South Africa is to undertake its third population census since the first democratic election in 1994; that is now according to the Statistics Act, No 6 of 1999. If you remember, in 2007 we only conducted a survey. As was mentioned by our hon Minister, official statistics provide an indispensable information system for a democratic society.
Statistics provide economic development, and public and government programmes with measurable data that assists future planning and resource allocation. This is very important because we tend to say that the provinces are not delivering. This is due to the fact that resources that were allocated were insufficient in relation to the population.
It is therefore important for the department to ensure that the awareness programme is a key factor in an undertaking and operation of this magnitude.
It is for this reason that the ANC insists on relevancy, impartiality and equal access during the collection of the information. The information needs to be made available on an impartial basis so as to honour the citizens' entitlement to public information and not to give the information which suits an individual sector. These individual sectors could be the media or the opposition. The information is then no longer impartial because others tend to have the privilege of receiving information before it is officially publicised.
We would like to congratulate our ANC-led government on ensuring that out of the five priorities which were born at the ANC conference in Polokwane, the departments were able to come up with 12 strategic objectives.
These 12 strategic objectives are going to be used to measure and monitor the activities. It is therefore important for the ANC to ensure that whatever debates we have we align with these five activities. Let us look at education and how statistics contribute towards education and skills development.
The Minister has mentioned the necessity of empowering our people with information. Even hon Singh was able to indicate, for a change, how important it is that our people become well informed about the format of collecting the information.
However, the ANC believes that the department needs to design an effective awareness programme - seemingly it is not there - so as to ensure effective public participation. You know, when we look at 2010, there has been talk for so many years. We are just few months away from Census 2011, but there is no talk. So we then request that such a marketing strategy or an awareness programme should be put in place.
We also, hon Minister, appreciate what has been done by the department; we are not only criticising. We are aware that the department has started the teacher participation programme and the shoe programme in preparation for Census 2011. We appreciate that. [Laughter.] They are laughing at the shoe programme; we also laughed because we did not understand.
Unfortunately time does not allow me to further explain to the hon members what the shoe programme is about, but it is quite an effective programme.
As the ANC we also appreciate that the department is really aware of the undercounting which creates a lot of problems, and we hope that something will be done. The ANC will request the department to provide the committee with a geared-up programme on the communication, marketing, publicity and advocacy instruments to deal with the preparations for Census 2011.
Why will we make this request, hon Minister? It is because as the ANC we are really unable to take further or persistent action against poor service delivery, which is created or caused by complex or different factors, one of them being the allocation of the equitable share.
I am going to be brief so that you are able to get some minutes, hon Minister.
Now let us look at the alignment of the statistics with the growing economy and creating decent jobs. Yes, indeed, Minister, the department did inform us about the CPI and the PPI. However, as the ANC, we are a bit concerned that the department is aware of the industrial sectoral fragmentation register and nothing has been done thus far.
The ANC is asking itself: How then is the information going to enhance the capacity to monitor and evaluate the transformation of economic policy? Is it going to be able to conduct the ongoing assessment and engagement around the economic policies? How is that going to be done because the department is aware, but the initiative to control that is not tangible? We cannot see it; we cannot reach it.
Yes, indeed, the President did indicate and request single integrated economic participation. As the ANC we are aware that in the provinces there are different initiatives towards the co-ops, towards the Small Medium and Micro Enterprises, SMMEs. However, we do not have the information which tells us who is benefiting from those programmes and at what level.
We also do not know whether there is any collaboration. Such information will actually assist us so that we are able to say that, indeed, there is growth in the economy and jobs are being created.
With regard to creating a safer community using statistics, editing and analysis takes longer - we are all aware of this - after the collection of the information. But the ANC always finds it very difficult to understand - especially with regard to the stats on crime - why there are people who are privileged with regard to these statistics. They are so privileged! They get it and it is so inaccurate. It is invalid, but they start talking about it and arguing about it, which causes the citizens to panic. This creates fear.
Once they have done that they do not go back and say that, by the way, they didn't have the statistics or that it was just a rumour, or that they were trying to confuse statistics. So based on that, hon Minister, we are requesting the department that for Census 2011, can we then have strict confidentiality and professional processing of the data collection before the publication? This will ensure that the so-called impartiality is achieved, as perceived by the ANC.
With regard to enhancing the quality of the health system, yes, the ANC is aware that the department is in the process of implementing the new, functional information system for health. However, the Health department should develop a reliable, single health information system. We are aware that this will be costly, but this is a Polokwane resolution. We need to achieve it, so that the system enables the departments like Treasury and planning to operate an ongoing system.
In conclusion, planning, implementation and monitoring if the priorities and 12 outcomes will only be successful if the data are accurate, consistent and leads to correct and effective decisions. The ANC supports Budget Vote No 12. [Applause.]
Chairperson, the ACDP shares in congratulating Statistics SA on a job well done. The state of the economy is often in the news, with everyone wanting to know what is happening and what is expected to happen; even more so since the 2008 global economic crisis.
The appropriate measure for measuring economic growth or lack thereof is real gross domestic product, GDP. Gross National Income or GNI is, however, a better measure than GDP of determining the income and standard of living of the citizens of a country.
The daunting task of estimating GDP, GNI or even gross domestic expenditure, GDE, is carried out by Statistics SA and the SA Reserve Bank, who draw up our national accounts. These accounts are the most important sources of information about the state and the performance of the economy. However, GDP and other national accounting totals have certain shortcomings.
GDP is sometimes jokingly referred to as the "grossly deceptive product" or the "grossly distorted picture". One of the main shortcomings, as the other speakers have said, is that many transactions or activities, such as in the informal sector, are never recorded and can result in a serious underestimation of the value of GDP.
We, as the ACDP, believe that it is here that Statistics SA can play a valuable role in obtaining more accurate data to determine truer GDP figures. It provides us with very important statistical information, but we are truly mindful, and share the views of the Minister, that the reliability of these stats, upon which the figures of the GDP are determined, depends on the accuracy of the information that is received. We share the Minister's view that we have a public duty to provide reliable and accurate information.
Chair, the issue of crime stats has been raised by various speakers. We know that crime stats are produced by the SAPS, Justice and the NPA. Crime stats were last produced by Statistics SA by conducting a victims of crime survey in 1998. We ask the question: Why has Statistics SA not produced another survey, particularly in view of the controversy surrounding national crime figures and high crime levels, and the allegations of the manipulation of statistics?
To conclude, Chairperson, Statistics SA is currently planning for its Census 2011, which will involve some 120 000 field workers. We again come back to the issue of reliability and civic duty, and we need to look at the issues of undercounting. We, as the ACDP, support this Budget Vote and congratulate the officials at Statistics SA on a job well done. Thank you, Chair.
Chairperson, the misuse of statistics can produce subtle but serious errors in description and interpretation - subtle in the sense that experienced professionals make such serious errors; and serious in the sense that such errors can lead to devastating decisions.
Social policy, medical practice and the reliability of structures like bridges all rely on the proper use of statistics. Even when statistics are applied, the results can be difficult to interpret for those who lack the expertise.
It goes without saying, therefore, that statistics is a complex subject for those who study it extensively, but more so for a lay person. Having said that, we cannot continue to pardon our ignorance concerning statistics. Statistics form a key, basic tool in business and manufacturing. They are Fused to understand measurement system variability, and control processes and the summarising of data, and to make data-driven decisions. In these roles, statistics are a key tool and, perhaps, the only reliable tool.
It is our view, as the UCDP, that studies in statistics need to be introduced as early as possible to our learners so that it does not continue to be a scarce skill and so that we can alleviate the general ignorance on statistics.
At an applied level, we need to develop a system whereby Statistics SA does not rely upon available data which is usually made available by other entities or departments, to formulate statistics. Perhaps it should rather have a co-ordinated data collection system where Statistics SA would be able to collect data from the original source.
It is always embarrassing to find that after certain statistics have been issued, for instance crime statistics, allegations that stats have been tampered with, emerge. We particularly cannot continue to have a case like the one referred to by hon Singh: the incident in 2009 in Pietermaritzburg, in which Constable Craig Josiah was suspended because of exposing the fraudulent activities in the capturing of crime statistics.
These are statistics that individuals rely upon to make real, serious life decisions, like where to buy their homes. We must ensure that these should not be tampered with. Apart from anything else, we can only tackle the problems when we know about them and their intensity. Therefore, if we continue to tamper with the statistics, we might fail to know the seriousness of the matter and therefore make flawed decisions.
I will be ending my speech by congratulating the hon Minister on having led this department so well. It is one of the few departments that is running their financial management very, very well. The Standing Committee on Public Accounts, Scopa, tried by all means to call it out, but we couldn't, because they have done a very good job. Congratulations, hon Minister. [Applause.]
The UCDP accepts and supports the Vote. Thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members and colleagues, we must commend Statistics SA for identifying skills development as, amongst other things, part of their strategic thrust. We believe, Chairperson, that it will go a long way in capacitating the majority of our people and also in assisting government to speed up delivery at all levels.
In their strategic plan Statistics SA recognises the lack of statistical skills in South Africa and has compiled a development framework to improve statistical literacy and create an appreciation for crunching numbers.
It has set a medium-term goal to improve stats literacy at schools and tertiary colleges in conjunction with building more capacity as Statistics SA, and improving the efficiency of the national statistics system.
The organisation plans to address these shortcomings through a combined investment in human, informational and organisational capital. This consists of expertise and competencies to acquire professional skills in mathematics and statistics. Statistics SA's human capacity-building strategy aims to maximise employee learning and knowledge. The plan includes enhancing capacity at schools and tertiary levels, and also inside Statistics SA.
Chairperson, it is common knowledge that the ANC has long expressed concern about the shortage of high-level skills in South Africa and made a concerted effort to address this anomaly with the purpose of making a huge impact on human capital development. The 2007 Polokwane conference resolution on investing in priority skills and education captures this clearly under Economic Transformation, point 2.9:
Improving our performance in maths, science and technology. Significantly expanding the resources devoted to our capacity as a people for knowledge production and expanding the resources devoted to innovation and research ...
Reviving the role of state-owned enterprises in skills development and training, and building partnerships between the state, parastatals, the union movement and the private sector in the quest to improve skills.
Placing further education and training colleges, at the centre of a popular drive to transfer skills to our people, including by providing these institutions with more resources, and scaling up dedicated bursary schemes to popularise and subsidise attendance at FET institutions.
The state of the nation address and the ANC's January 8 Statement and manifesto priorities cover: more jobs, decent work and sustainable livelihoods; food security - ensuring no one goes hungry; rural and agricultural development and land reform; and education to be at the centre of our efforts. The priorities also include moving forward to achieving health care for all, and together intensifying the fight against crime and corruption. The final and seventh priority is to build cohesive and sustainable communities and, lastly, a better Africa and a better world.
The recent service delivery protests highlight the disconnection between local government and the expectations of the masses of our people with regard to job creation, the provision of social services and infrastructure, the existence of food insecurities linked to unemployment, the slow pace of urban renewal and land reform and the opportunistic rise of criminal activities.
The service delivery protests make it imperative for Statistics SA to channel its efforts towards the provision of high-quality data on trends and indicators; and the availability or shortages, as highlighted in the priorities of governments Medium-Term Strategic Framework for 2009-14, and explained above, and in the ANC manifesto priorities.
For a successful implementation of the outcome of such research, as the ANC in government we would want the information generated to be widely available and user-friendly for utilisation by communities and stakeholders.
About your parting shot, hon Dr George, I would say the other side of your shot is looking back while moving forward. I believe and I support the chairperson of the committee, when he says the committee can always speak the same language. Therefore, the ANC supports this Budget Vote, Chairperson. I thank you. [Applause.]
Thank you, Chair. Mr Minister, you started your speech by referring to the flight problems in Europe. When I fly around I see the Minister sitting in business class, which is right at the front of the plane. I want to warn you against it; it is very dangerous there - because I have never seen a plane reverse into a mountain!
The fact that there is no media coverage here can be ascribed, Mr Minister, probably to the fact that the statistics department is not one of the most glamorous departments in government, but it fulfils a very important role for the purposes of planning public policy and decision-making.
It is also important for monitoring and evaluating the programmes of both government and business. The accuracy and reliability of the statistics produced by the department are therefore of the utmost importance.
The last full census was held in 2001. The census which was due to be held in 2006 was replaced with a community survey and the next full census is only planned for 2011. The likelihood of using outdated figures, therefore, particularly in respect of population statistics, is an unfortunate certainty.
By its own admission, the population statistics obtained by the department in the previous surveys could reflect a population undercount of as much as 17%. This has serious implications, especially for government programmes since transfers to provincial governments, in particular, are based and are proportionately paid on these erroneous population statistics.
It will lead to serious payout distortions. We find that government monetary transfers to more densely populated provinces, in respect of health, for instance, have the effect of funding to these provinces being much more advantageous than to rural provinces where low population densities are found. This leads to poor service delivery at clinics and hospitals in rural areas as the funding received is simply not sufficient.
Not only does Statistics SA work with statistics off an erroneous base, but the position is further worsened by the monthly updates received from the Department of Home Affairs.
The data on the population register at the Department of Home Affairs is highly suspect. The Department of Home Affairs is also unlikely to have any factual information with regard to the number of illegal immigrants in South Africa and to whose livelihood the South African taxpayer contributes.
It also doubtful whether any adjustments in population statistics of provinces were made after cross-border changes to municipalities, or whether any account is taken of the massive migration of the population from rural to metro areas.
In its strategic plan the department identifies many of its shortcomings. Remedial action by way of more and regular accurate population censuses is now of the utmost importance, and we must make sure that the information they are gathering is accepted by the South African public as being completely trustworthy.
I agree with you, Mr Minister, that we should set the target for undercounting at 2%. In fact, we should go to 1,9% because I am not to be told that the Australians count better than we do! Thank you.
Chairperson, hon members, good afternoon. Chairperson, allow me to forward my apology in advance to hon George, as I'm going to be revisiting the past now and again in my speech. [Laughter.]
It is 17 years since Comrade Martin Thembisile Hani, the secretary-general of the SACP and a member of the national executive committee of the ANC, was assassinated outside his home by the right-wingers. Comrade Hani was murdered on Saturday morning, 10 April 1993, as he returned to his home in Boksburg.
Those who were convicted of the crime admitted that their intention was to fuel a violent racial confrontation. However, due to the discipline of our people and the leadership of the ANC, their plan did not work.
Today we see some of these tendencies trying to show their ugly face again. We want to assure our people out there that this did not happen in 1993. Their plan did not work in 1993. It's not going to work today, and it will never work for as long as the ANC exists. [Interjections.] Our people must feel free and safe; their lives are safe in the hands of the ANC. [Applause.]
Statistics SA tabled its revised strategic plan before the Standing Committee on Finance on 13 April 2010. In terms of the Statistics Act, No 6 of 1999, the functions of Statistics SA are outlined as follows. Statistics SA is responsible for the collection, production and dissemination of official and other statistics, including conducting a population census, and for the co-ordination of statistics among producers of statistics. This mandate therefore places Statistics SA at the centre of the government's development agenda.
The strategic plan of Statistics SA presented before the committee outlines a shift or a move from the normal way of doing things. This new way of doing things is a direct response to the increased demand for reliable and accurate information by government, business, NGOs and public stakeholders. Over and above this is the commitment of this government, led by the ANC, to evidence-based policy-making.
Hon Mufamadi, you can put on your gadgets now. [Laughter.]
Mhlalingaphambili, ukuze umbutho wesizwe ukwazi ukuphucula impilo zabantu kuyanyanzeleka senze isiqinisekiso sokuthi ulwazi oluthi luqokelelwe licandelo lenkcukacha-manani lulwazi oluphangaleleyo nolunyanisekileyo. Kwinkomfa yakhe ukhongolose ePolokwane ngowama-2007 wagqiba ekubeni ugxininise kakhulu kule mibandela iphathelene nempilo yoluntu, ikakhulukazi uluntu oluhlelelekileyo. Le mibandela ihlelwe ngolu hlobo: ukuphuculwa kwempilo yoluntu jikelele; ukuphuculwa kwemfundo; ukhuselo loluntu kunye nokulwa norhwaphilizo; uphuculo lwezasemaphandleni; kunye nokudala imisebenzi nezinye.
Ngaphandle kolu lwazi, singurhulumente wabantu asoze sikwazi ukufikelela kuluntu lonke jikelele. Loo nto iyakuthi ikhokelele ekubeni urhulumente angakwazi ukufezekisa izithembiso zakhe awathi wazenza ebantwini ngonyaka wama-2009. Eli candelo sithetha ngalo namhlanje lijongene nobunzima obungummangaliso ekufezeni iinjongo elakhelwa zona. UMphathiswa sele ezibalile ezinye, mna ndiza kuthi gqaba-gqaba nje kwezimbalwa.
Ezinye ezingumceli-mngeni elithi eli candelo lihlangabezane nazo zezi zilandelayo. Eyokuqala, uluntu lwethu, ikakhulukazi indlu emnyama, alikabinakho ukuthi lilithembe eli candelo. Uyakukhumbula Mhlalingaphambili ukuba phambili phaya ngexesha localucalulo eli candelo lalisetyenziselwa ukuhlukumeza abantu bethu. Uyakukhumbula ohloniphekileyo uSwart ukuba ngaloo maxesha kwakuthi emva kokuba kungene amagosa eli candelo kwiindawo zethu zokuhlala kulandele amapolisa ezobandlululo eze kutshabalalisa imizi yabo babekrokrelwa okanye abo babesaziwa njengabagrogrisi.
Eyesibini ebaluleke kakhulu bubuchwepheshe obungekhoyo obubangelwa ngulaa mngxengwa wemfundo esasiyinikwa ngurhulumente wegcuntswana. Omnye wale miceli-mngeni ngulowo wokuba amasebe ngamasebe karhulumente anokuthandabuza ukuba iinkcukacha-manani ziyinxalenye yokusebenza kwawo kwaye okungenza khaphukhaphu umsebenzi wawo. Okunye kukuba uluntu aluwathembanga amagqobhoka neencwadi zawo xa ejikeleza kwiindawo oluhlala kuzo befuna iinkcukacha zabo. Basuke babe namanwele ngokuthi ezi nkcukacha zingasetyenziselwa ulwaphulo-mthetho ngakubo.
Emva kokuba siwondlale onke la mabakala ayingxaki kweli candelo, singumbutho wesizwe sithi kucace okwekati emhlophe ehlungwini ukuba kunyembelekile. Kufanele ukuba siphume ngendlu sonke singamalungu ale Ndlu namasebe onke karhulumente kuyiwe eluntwini lufundiswe ngokuqulethwe lubalo lwabo nokuba urhulumente angahlangabezana njani neengxaki zabo xa nabo bewenza khaphukhaphu lo msebenzi. Uluntu lungawenza khaphukhaphu lo msebenzi ngokuthi lusebenzisane nathi namagosa eli candelo kunye nezinye izakhiwo zikarhulumente.
Ukungabikho kolwazi malunga namanani achanekileyo oluntu esinalo kunye neengxaki zalo njengorhulumente lwenza kube nzima ukucwangcisa iimfuno zalo kwezophuhliso, intlalo, ulwaphulo-mthetho nako konke okuchaphazela abantu jikelele. Urhulumente akakwazi ukusuka avuthuze nje okwegqirha lilahlekwe ngumhlola, engazi ukuba ngoobani, bephi, bebangaphi, befuna ntoni, kanjani, nini, nangayiphi na indlela abafuna ukulungiselwa ngayo. Kungeso sizathu urhulumente kufanelekile ukuba abe nolwazi olucace gca ngamanani abantu neemfuno zabo kwiindawo abahlala kuzo.
Kungoko ke sihlaba umkhosi kuwo onke amasebe karhulumente kumabakala omathathu ukuba mabayithathe ngocoselelo ngenxa yokubaluleka kwayo. Futhi kufuneka bakwenze uxanduva lwabo ukugcinwa kwamanani oluntu. Oku ke kuya kwenza lula umsebenzi karhulumente okwecephe lisiya emlonyeni ukuhlangabezana nokuphumeza izibophelelo esazenzayo njengombutho wesizwe kumqulu wokugaya wonyulo lonyaka ogqithileyo.
Kwakhona urhulumente wethu wathi wazibophelela ukuba uya kudlala inxaxheba ephambili apha ekhaya, kwi-Afrika iyonke kunye nelizwe liphela ekucutheni indlala, ekuphuhlisweni kwemfundo, uphuhliso lwezempilo njalonjalo. Nokuba konke oku kwenzeke ngexesha ekwakuvunyelwene ngalo ngaphantsi kwenkqubo ye- MDGs ngokolwimi lwasemzini. Kungoko ke kubaluleke kanobom ukuba urhulumente wethu abenolwazi olucacileyo noluthe ngqo lomyinge wabantu ajongene nabo. Zimpula zikalujaca ke ezo sithetha ngazo.
Ngethuba evele phambi kwekomiti, uMphathiswa ojongene neli candelo uye wasiqinisekisa ukuba zikhona iinkqubo abaziyilileyo eziza kuqinisekisa ukuba ubalo kunye nokugcinwa kweenkcukacha-manani luza kuba semgangathweni ophezulu. Ezi nkqubo ziya kuthi kwakho zikhuthaze urhulumente kunye noluntu jikelele ukuba lukwazi ukunikezela ngolw azi lwabo kurhulumente ngaphandle kokoyika. Nabo baya kuthi basebenzise olu lwazi baya kukwazi ukuyithemba le nkqubo karhulumente.
Sithi huntshu kwinkqubo yokuphuhliswa kwezakhono kubasebenzi beSebe leNkcukacha-manani laseMzantsi Afrika nakuwo onke amasebe karhulumente njengoko oku kuya kuthi kuncede kuphuhliso loluntu.
UMphathiswa uphinde wasithembisa, Mnumzana Singh, ukuba eminyakeni embalwa ezayo eli candelo liya kuthi litshintshe indlela elenza ngayo izinto ukwenzela ukuba sikwazi ukudlulisa imiyalezo ekufuneka ifikelele kubantu bethu. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[Chairperson, in order for the ruling party to be able to improve the lives of the people, we are compelled to ensure that the information gathered by Statistics SA is general and reliable. At its conference in Polokwane in 2007, the congress decided to put great emphasis on issues pertaining to health, especially that of the poorest of the poor. These issues have been arranged as follows: health improvement of the population in general, improvement of education, improvement of safety and security of the public and the fight against corruption, improvement of the rural areas and the creation of jobs, etc.
Without this information, the people's government will not be able to reach all the people. That will lead to the government not being able to achieve and fulfil what it promised the people in 2009. This department we are talking about today faces incredible challenges in achieving the goals for which it was established. The Minister has already pointed out the challenges the department is facing, therefore I shall just briefly refer to a few of them.
The following are some of the challenges that this department faces: Firstly, the public, especially black people, do not trust this department. You will remember, Chairperson, that during apartheid this department was used to abuse our people. Hon Swart will remember that at that time, after the officials of this department had arrived in our communities, the police of the apartheid regime would follow to destroy the homes of those they regarded as suspicious or those they classified as terrorists.
Secondly, there is a lack of skills that was caused by the inferior education that we were given by the minority government. Another challenge is that the other departments doubt that statistics form part of their responsibilities and could make their work easier. The other challenge is that people do not trust strangers who carry books, and who move around in their communities taking down their details. They become suspicious as if their details will be used for criminal activities.
Having tabled all the problematic issues in this department, the people's party says it is crystal clear that the situation is really hopeless. We, as members of this House and all government departments, are supposed to go out to the people and educate them about statistics and how the government can assist them with their problems if they are also making the task easy. The public can make this task easy by co-operating with the officials of this department and other government facilities.
The lack of correct statistical information about the number of people in our country and their problems makes it difficult for the government to plan for their developmental and social needs, to fight crime and to deal with everything that affects them. The government cannot just do things haphazardly, without knowing who to assist and how many to assist, and what needs to be fixed where and when. It is for that reason that the government is supposed to have information that is crystal clear about the statistics with regard to the people and their needs in their communities.
That is why we are appealing to all government departments, in the three spheres of government, to pay close attention to it because of its importance. In addition to that they must make the safekeeping of statistical records their responsibility. This will make the government's task of fulfilling the promises it made as the ruling party in the election manifesto of the previous year as easy as ABC.
Furthermore, our government committed itself to play a leading role here at home in Africa and in the whole world in the reduction of hunger, the development of education, and the development of healthcare, etc. Also, this must take place within the agreed timeframes under the MDG programme. It is therefore very important that our government has direct and correct information about the average number of people it is responsible for. I'm referring to the poorest of the poor.
When the Minister responsible for this department appeared before the committee, he assured us that they have designed programmes which will ensure that the population census and statistics will be of the highest quality. These programmes will encourage the government, and the public in general, to give their details voluntarily and without fear. Even those who will be using this information will trust the programme of the government.
We commend the programme for skills development at Statistics SA and all the government departments as this will help in public development.
The Minister has also promised, hon Singh, that in the years to come this department will change the way in which it does things so that we will be able to convey the messages that we need to, to our people.]
In conclusion, we want to encourage all parliamentary oversight committees to ensure that all government departments and institutions have a plan of how they are going to collect and keep information that relates to their area of functioning, as well as how human and financial resources are allocated to this function.
Chairperson, the ANC supports this Budget. Thank you. [Applause.]
I have been informed that when the Minister was talking he went into his question time and exhausted 6 minutes, and he is now left with 4 minutes. However, the ruling party was able to save 7 minutes from other speakers.
Therefore, we will add the minutes from the last speaker, which means, Minister, you now have 11 plus the other minutes when I do some calculations. You have 11 minutes plus any other thing that comes to my desk; I will let you know. Did the DA save one minute? [Laughter.]
Thank you very much, Chair. I should just draw attention to the speakers' list distributed by Parliament. They've included 15 minutes for the Deputy Minister, so I shall consume those as well. [Laughter.]
Was it earlier? When, Minister?
That's a statistical quirk we are discussing! Let me just go back to something that we frequently lose in this debate and that is the interrelationship between the output of statistics and all of government. We seem to focus on this narrowly and not look at all of these issues together.
I think hon George, while drawing attention to Eastern Europe and the left, failed to draw attention to what was actually the biggest problem here, and that is the failure of the key statistical agencies in the United States to give any meaning or sense to the number of derivatives at play. And the costs of that are now measured in the lives of families where there is unemployment, homelessness and all manner of other devastation.
So, the issue of statistics in decision-making is something that we shouldn't ever gloss over. However, the point that hon Singh and hon Koornhof made about the interrelationship between the statistical outputs and planning for the future is something that is fundamentally important.
I want to ask the hon George to rest assured that the norms that we have applied in respect of Statistics SA - no prior citing and so on - will very much remain.
We must be able to draw on the outputs in order to improve on planning and resource allocation; but these norms are not up for negotiation and they never have been. And that is fundamentally important.
On the issue of what happened at the conclusion of the discussions, the outstanding questions were published in the Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, ATCs, last year. But the function shifted and Statistics SA had provided this. But I think there was an administrative glitch and we recognised that when we appeared before the committee last week, and we did correct it. We apologise for that.
I had explained to the chairperson of the portfolio committee that it is not something that happens in the course of things or because there was any malintent on the part of Statistics SA in its dealings with Parliament.
A number of members, Chair, have drawn attention to crime statistics; it is not something that Statistics SA is responsible for. Hon Singh spoke about Pietermaritzburg, but there are a number of other instances where this has happened. It is a sign of the problem of the cavalier attitude of those who should be collecting statistics. And you are going to find the same issues in other parts - in education and health, as I have mentioned in that context - and that's where the problem lies.
In respect of the poverty line, yes, it is something that we endeavoured to have available for discussion in South Africa. Like other issues, unfortunately, it became very highly politicised. Just a few weeks ago, there was a discussion in Nedlac to look at the methodology without dealing with the numbers. It was a very important and necessary discussion partly because of certain concerns expressed.
Some of the social partners believe that if you have a lower number then it will impact on wage bargaining. There are some NGOs who believe that two restaurant visits a month, four movie tickets a month, etc, should be added in because if we don't have those things, it means we are poor.
These were intense discussions and there will be some adjustment, but I want again to give the undertaking that this matter will be brought to Parliament. This is because to settle things just in terms of methodology is not something to which you can just apply a global methodology. You have to cut your own path and this is what made it difficult because if this very important poverty measure is caught in political contradiction, then it loses its meaning and its value as a tool for upliftment.
Of course, upliftment is one of the key issues. There has been a very important report - and president Sarkozy convened the panel last year that had at least two Nobel laureates, Amartya Sen and Joseph Stiglitz, on it.
One of the questions they engaged with in the report was what? of course, the value of GDP as a measure of what? [Laughter.] Certainly, it doesn't measure access, happiness or any of the other things that people need in life. And because of the way in which it is aggregated and standardised, in statistics when you have one millionaire and nine penniless families in a row, the average doesn't look too bad.
This is part of the challenge of the aggregation that comes with the defined statistical methodology, so we can have a long discussion all year. [Laughter.] Those are fundamentally important issues.
The food security issue is, of course, also important and the problem is partly in what the hon Koornhof said. The number now is approaching 14 million South Africans who are benefiting from social security grants. But if that is only half of the eligible families then we will very soon have a social security system that is quite unaffordable.
These are fundamentally important issues that Parliament must be seized with. We musn't just criticise; these things ought to be the subjects of debate because we can't leave people behind and we can't build a system that this country will not be able to afford, or afford to the exclusion of all of the other things that the government has to do in the context of public services.
I don't know how many surveys we can do. I don't know what our capacity is to undertake these things with a great frequency, but one of the problems that we have heard and that has been raised in the context of this debate is that there are a number of outputs that actually are not utilised. The bulk of it, I would submit, is not utilised.
I would challenge members of this House to deal with their own conscience on this matter. When last have they looked at the GDP number, the CPI number, the PPI number, at the labour statistics, or any of those numbers and used it to inform the way in which they themselves take decisions on legislation, or anything else?
If this is what's happening in Parliament, how much bigger a problem is it in the rest of society? The way in which we process information and use these resources for decision-making, where we find ourselves in Parliament, is something that we have to take account of.
You know, the Statistician - General, last week made reference to one of the experiences we've had arising from Census 2001. The results were available in July 2003, so two years had already elapsed. Then it took about another year to put together the statistics of all of those municipalities. What was the number? It was 700 and something then. Two years after that, so almost five years had elapsed, a questionnaire was sent to the municipalities to ask them for the statistics on water sanitation, electrification, houses built and so on. And it was amazing just the quality of the match between the results of Census 2001 and what they then gave back to us five years later. They admitted that the source of their information was Census 2001.
Now this said very clearly that municipalities had no idea of what they were doing and when they were doing it. It confirms what Deputy Minister Cronin said last week, that municipal officials don't even get out and drive along the road to see where the potholes are. Never mind who has water, whether the water is filtered, or whether the sewerage works are actually operating.
These are the fundamental problems. It is a cavalier attitude that people have towards their tasks. They are not clear about why they earn their salary and unless we deal with this problem, we won't actually deliver a democracy that our people feel part of it.
Service delivery protests, therefore, are going to be the order of the day. The value of statistics as an early warning indicator for everything we are doing in government should never be undermined. [Laughter.]
Andiva tata. [I beg your pardon, sir.]
Oh, all right! I now want to turn to hon Swart. I don't know which Swart it was, Pik or Manie. No, it is not Pik, it's Manie. [Laughter.] You know, we all want more frequent censuses.
It is interesting that the United States and United Kingdom have a census once every 10 years, so we are not completely outside of the norm. Countries like Australia, Japan and Canada have it once every five years.
Part of doing this is arriving at a rational decision about the frequency and this big mobilisation of putting 120 000 people in the field and what you will actually do with the information.
And to try to answer from my own experience, what we did in the past is we conducted a census in 2001 and five years later, a large community survey. You try to ensure that you can develop in that respect, and you get better at that as you proceed. These, I think, are the big challenges.
Chairperson, the hon Sibhida spoke about how we must change the undercounting and I just hope that that receives a big round of applause. It is going to cause a lot of hard work, but we must remove the fear that people have about how they engage with officialdom when these surveys are done. This is because the census will be fundamentally important because we must recognise, 15 years on, where we are and what still needs to be done. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Thank you, Minister. Right on time! Order! Members are reminded that the EPC on Communications will meet in Committee Room E249, which is this committee room here, at 16:30 and the EPC on Energy will meet in the Old Assembly Chamber, also at 16:30.
Hon members, the House is not rising. Could you all please sit down. I will not rise until you sit down. That's the power of the Chair. [Laughter.]