Deputy Speaker, since April 2008, the toll- free number that belongs to the Public Service Commission forwards these matters to Home Affairs in the form of cases.
Five hundred and seventy-five cases have been investigated. Of those, 240 have resulted in action being taken against the officials and 125 of these cases have been referred to the department's employee relations directorate for disciplinary procedures to be instituted against the officials concerned. One hundred and fifteen of those cases have been referred to the SA Police Service for further investigation and the institution of criminal proceedings against those officials. Thank you.
Deputy Speaker, has the Minister identified a trend indicating more complaints about certain offices than others; and if so, has the Minister launched any investigations into these specific corruption hot spots in order to rectify the situation and put a stop to corruption once and for all?
Deputy Speaker, I wish there were just a few hot spots. [Laughter.]
Let me just say that one of the things that is now beginning to help us - we will see the results in the coming period - is the biometric login. We are rolling this out and, in the offices where we have rolled it out, we are beginning to pick up certain trends. We can now identify not only the office but also the actual official. There are certain trends that we are looking at. Hopefully, utilising that, we will not only be able to identify those hot spots where corruption happens in the front-line offices, but also identify the exact individuals.
We are also a bit concerned about the ports of entry, but the system has not been implemented there yet. The cluster is investigating a way of forming a single entity that is going to look after the ports of entry because there are many role-players there, amongst others Home Affairs, the police and Sars. We are discussing ways to consolidate resources and practices so that we have a single entity that can manage the ports of entry. That is going to take a bit of time, but it's on our programme. Thank you.
Deputy Speaker, during the previous week, when we were doing oversight at the ports of entry, we indeed confirmed what is already commonly known, namely that corruption levels are high and many officials are either charged or dismissed. In terms of taking action, the department is obviously doing well.
We have mentioned the issue of the management of ports of entry and it is also true that there are low levels of co-operation among the departments that are involved in managing those ports of entry. Your suggestion about a single entity is, in fact, welcomed.
The issue I want to raise is that we are of the view that, given this crisis of human resources, and in order to avoid a vicious cycle, you need to take steps at a recruitment level, so that when you actually recruit, the people are properly screened to avoid a vicious cycle. Thank you. [Time expired.]
Deputy Speaker, the hon member is right. However, as we speak, there are already 7 000 people working at Home Affairs. The new recruits will thus be fewer than the staff already employed at Home Affairs. So, besides reviewing our recruitment policy, we also need to keep training the existing staff, while dismissing those whom we can't do much about.
We also need to take a closer look at society, because, for every corrupt act, there is somebody who is doing the corrupting - in other words, there is somebody employed at Home Affairs who is corrupt - but there is also some member of society who is corrupt.
I think we should all be working towards making sure that society understands that corruption at Home Affairs is very serious. It can undermine the security of the country. I think we should all be preaching that, so that people know that they are endangering our security as a country by being corrupt.
Nevertheless, I agree with you that, when we recruit, we have to scrutinise everything and get the national security agencies to also look into the person's background, as we do with senior managers in government.
Discussions regarding lifting of recently announced visa requirements for SA citizens visiting the UK
134. Mr N J J van R Koornhof (Cope) asked the Minister of International Relations and Co-operation:
Whether she held discussions with her United Kingdom, UK, counterpart to lift the recently announced visa requirements for South African citizens visiting the UK; if not, why not; if so, what was the outcome of such discussions? NO1828E
Madam Deputy Speaker, immigration matters and matters related to the visa regime that are imposed on South Africans by any country, including the United Kingdom, fall within the ambit of the functions of my colleague here, the hon Minister of Home Affairs. However, as the department co-ordinates international relations for our government, I will share the following information with the hon member.
The governments of South Africa and the United Kingdom discussed immigration matters at the last South Africa-UK Bilateral Forum, held from 7 to 8 July 2008 in Tshwane. On that occasion, the then Minister of Home Affairs held talks with her British counterpart.
Further talks were held in London on 23 February 2009. An agreement on proposed returns could not be reached at that stage. However, what is heartening is that the UK government had confirmed to us that they see this as a temporary measure, whilst we are resolving our internal problems in South Africa.
The government of the United Kingdom announced the imposition of a visa regime on South African nationals in February 2009, with effect from March 2009. My predecessor held discussions with her counterpart in London on 6 March 2009, during which this matter was again discussed.
Relations between South Africa and the UK remain strong and sound and the visa regime remains on the agenda of bilateral discussions between the two governments. I thank you.
Could I just find out from you, hon Minister, if you would be able to take supplementary questions?
Deputy Speaker, thank you, hon Minister, for that reply. I think it's encouraging to hear that there are bilateral talks and that the government of the United Kingdom said that this is a temporary arrangement. However, what I would like to ask the Minister is whether she is aware that this arrangement will cost the economy approximately R500 million next year.
We all know that the United Kingdom is a very important long-haul destination for South Africa. Let me explain. Because South African travellers pay for their visas, that R500 million will not be available to be spent in South Africa; that is why there is a visa cost to the economy. I would like to have the Minister assure us that she will work with her predecessor so that we can resolve this as soon as possible.
Hon Deputy Speaker, I thought that the supplementary questions would go to the relevant Minister. As I said earlier on, the Minister of Home Affairs is available. We are co-ordinating the activities of this government in so far as international relations are concerned. Therefore, the cost to the economy and all related questions would be better handled by my colleague and neighbour here, the Minister of Home Affairs.
That's exactly why I asked the question. The Minister of International Relations and Co-operation stated earlier on that although she would give a reply to the question, in fact the question was supposed to be directed to the Minister of Home Affairs.
Deputy Speaker, if the Speaker agrees, we can do a bilateral.
Madam Deputy Speaker, surely this is a matter of public significance and interest, as many South African citizens are inconvenienced by these restrictions. Compliance with these requirements is necessary and the timeframes are important in this regard.
The question to the relevant Minister is: At what stage will the Minister be in a position to go to her UK counterpart to indicate that we have complied with the requirements as stipulated by their home affairs secretary and for them to lift the requirements? I thank you.
Could I find out if the Minister is able to answer the question now? If not, a reply to the question can follow at a later stage.
Hon Deputy Speaker, we have a bilateral meeting with my counterpart from the United Kingdom scheduled for tomorrow. He has since sent a message asking for the postponement of our engagement tomorrow. However, I will leave the rest of the response to the Minister of Home Affairs.
What we really want to clarify here is that indeed, yes, we are sincerely and clearly engaged with our counterparts on this very important matter.
Madam Deputy Speaker, we will go to the UK to renegotiate when we feel we are ready; secondly, there are things that the United Kingdom is asking for that we will not agree to. So, in terms of our processes, once we are ready, we'll go back to them.
For example, they want people who got South African passports fraudulently 15 years or so ago to return to South Africa. I'm not about to agree to that, but we can discuss this issue with them.
When we are ready with our internal processes, we'll go back to them and ask if we can renegotiate on some issues. However, having people that went to the United Kingdom a long time ago return to South Africa might be problematic. Thank you.
Deputy Speaker, thank you, Minister, for your response and for clarifying to us that the visa requirements for South African citizens visiting the United Kingdom are temporary. My supplementary question, arising from your reply, is: Is there any other country in the Commonwealth that has raised the issues that the United Kingdom has raised based on what your colleague has said? Thank you.
Madam Deputy Speaker, not as far as we know, but if that happens we will respond accordingly.
We are happy with the work that is under way in the Department of Home Affairs, but we need the support of all South African citizens so as to make sure that we cut down on these challenges that tend to become quite embarrassing at times.
Training of immigration officers in light of passenger processing agreement with Sita regarding visitors to 2010 Fifa Soccer World Cup tournament
129. Mr B A D Martins (ANC) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:
(1) Whether, in light of the passenger processing agreement with the State Information Technology Agency, Sita, which will eliminate immigration checks and formalities of visitors for the 2010 Fifa Soccer World Cup tournament at South African airports, her department has ensured that immigration officials are properly trained and prepared for this initiative; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details;
(2) to what extent is this initiative being popularised locally and internationally? NO1100E
Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Martins, the answer is yes, the training of officials, including immigration officials who will be directly involved in issues related to the Advanced Passenger Processing, APP, system at the three main ports of entry, namely O R Tambo International Airport, Cape Town International Airport and Durban International Airport, commenced on 6 October 2009.
It must also be noted that the APP system does not eliminate the current immigration checks that all inbound passengers are required to undergo. It will, however, allow a great majority of travellers to be precleared as low- risk before they arrive at our ports of entry, and as a result the clearance process will be accelerated.
Locally, the APP system forms part of the department's greater 2010 communication strategy and is being embarked upon as such internationally. The International Air Transport Association or the control authorities working group is well aware of the acquiring of the system by the Department of Home Affairs and the processes thus far, and the department is regularly represented at its annual meetings or workshops.
Of course, in addition to this, there is also work that is being done with the Local Organising Committee, LOC, in terms of recruiting volunteers. They will not be doing immigration work, but they will be assisting in directing passengers so that the queues can be cleared quickly. Thank you.
Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, will it be possible to utilise the skills of the personnel thus trained beyond 2010?
Deputy Speaker, yes, hon member, those people who are trained will be utilised at the ports of entry and also, some of them will be trained to use the IT aspects of the system, so they will continue to be used. In fact, where possible, we'll be using this skill beyond 2010 anyway.
Hon Deputy Speaker, the ID really applauds this initiative, but of concern to us, hon Minister, is that the Advanced Passenger Processing system is an integration of the Department of Home Affairs' R4 billion Who Am I Online project. There is much controversy surrounding the tender for this project, and since the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs hasn't perused the forensic audit, how will this Advanced Passenger Processing system then affect the process that will take place in October? It was also promised by Sita that they would look into land and sea ports of entry as far as 2010 is concerned. If this is still the case, when will this happen, especially looking at the high volume of entrants at the port of entry at Beitbridge? Thank you.
Deputy Speaker, member, first of all, let me just say to the hon member that the Who Am I Online contract that we have is for plus-minus R2 billion and not R4 billion anymore. Secondly, regarding the forensic audit, I know one hon member said here yesterday that we were hiding it. Even if you put a gun to my head and said I should show it to you, I couldn't, because we haven't received it yet, so we don't have the forensic audit from the auditors yet.
What I do know is that Treasury has given us money to use for Who Am I Online on the 2010-related issues, because we can't wait. The government has made undertakings for 2010, so that process has to continue and Treasury has given us the money for 2010-related arrangements. Thank you.
Deputy Speaker, Minister, I understand that this plan will be effected at our main ports of entry, which are basically the airports, but I would like to know something else. During our visit last week it was clear that security measures at the Lesotho border were not efficient enough. Scanning machines were standing at two ports of entry like expensive white elephants and people walked through our borders without their baggage being scanned or manually searched.
I would like to know, Minister, how do you plan on ensuring that visitors with criminal intentions do not enter the country during the Fifa 2010 World Cup, as surely the elimination of immigration checks leaves this open to abuse?
Deputy Speaker, hon member, first of all, let me say that, with regard to this Advanced Passenger Processing system, we worked together with the other members of the security sector. If a person's name is on the Interpol or our own police list it will show and that's precisely why we want advanced processing, because such a person will not even board the plane if we find out that he's trying to come here.
Therefore our system will be working with them, linking with our own list of people who are known to be criminals, but those whom we do not have on the system we do not know, and they may have criminal intentions. It will be very difficult to find them.
I wish Home Affairs had the powers to be able to see what people's intentions are. Unfortunately we can't claim powers that we don't have. We cannot know which people do have criminal intentions and which don't. But those who are already known and who are on the list will show.
Regarding the security at the Lesotho border, you are right. It's not just the security and whether people are being searched, it's also the fact that even the documents that Basothos produce are not really proper documents, and we have discussed this matter in the department and we have agreed that we are going to engage Basothos whilst also looking at our own side, because unfortunately there are agreements that were reached with the government of Lesotho that allow some of those things to happen.
There is an agreement by which you are given a six-month permit to come and go any time without even being scrutinised by the immigration officer. It's an agreement that is in operation. There is another one that we are stalling and which we are going to renegotiate, but that is in operation, so we have agreed as a department that we are going to review and then sit down with the Basothos and discuss the issue.
But we are going to do that with other countries as well, just to see how we can tighten up our security, not only for 2010, but in general, because we have found out that people fly via O R Tambo to Lesotho, they get those pieces of paper from Lesotho and then they come in as Basothos. So, it is a problem. We have identified it and we are trying to deal with it.
And I'm happy that hon Members of Parliament have visited these posts. We should discuss these issues and share ideas on how to strengthen our security and also how to review some of the agreements that we already have with them in order to, whilst allowing freedom of movement, not undermine security. Thank you.
Particulars regarding suspension and investigation of certain persons 165. Ms H N Makhuba (IFP) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:
(1) (a)(i) When and (ii) why were certain persons (details furnished) suspended;
(2) whether they were suspended with full pay; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what was the total cost to her department;
(3) whether the investigation and disciplinary process against the said persons were finalised; if not, why not; if so, (a) when and (b) what was the outcome;
(4) what was the total cost to her department for salaries which were paid to all suspended officials pending the finalisation of their disciplinary procedures for the 2008-09 financial year?