Thank you, Madam Speaker and hon members. As background to question 1, I should remind this House that as a custodian of state assets one of our responsibilities as the Department of Public Works is to offer accommodation to government departments, state entities, Members of the Executive and Members of Parliament.
The residential accommodation therefore falls under the function known as "prestige accommodation" in our budget. Hon members will recall that in 1994, when the new democratic government was set up, the Melamet commission, which looked at conditions of service for Members of Parliament and the Executive, made a proposal as part of the salary structure, that members need to pay for residential accommodation if they take occupation of such as offered by the state.
This decision was then operationalised by the Department of Public Works through the ministerial handbook, as well as communication through the parliamentary board with Members of Parliament. Cabinet further decided that should an MP utilise both residences in Cape Town and in Pretoria he or she will pay rental on one of them. At the time, hon members would recall, the valuation of an amount to be paid by the MPs was bench-marked to be market related, and included a formula that was developed then.
In 2002, Cabinet took a decision after recommendations by the mandate committee that members of the Executive will pay 1% of their annual salary divided by 12 on a monthly basis. On the other hand, Members of Parliament and session officials are also accommodated in state accommodation in the parliamentary villages according to the Parliamentary Acts. The determination of their rental payment is done after consultation between the Minister of Finance and the Minister of Public Works, following consultation with the parliamentary board.
If I were to come to the answer directly, Madam Speaker, there is no Member of the Executive that is still owing money and therefore question b and c fall away. Thank you.
Thank you, hon Minister, for such a comprehensive response. Are you telling this hon House that the case of the axed Deputy Minister of Health was an isolated incident, where we read that she owed up to R26 700, which is about 72 months' rent in arrears? Thank you.
Well, I will be very kind to the hon member because the matter does not necessarily arise, but it might be related. It is not an isolated question. Every Member of the Executive, or even a Member of Parliament who is owing is reminded in accordance with the agreements that have been made with Members of the Executive through their departments about the amount that the member has to pay or the amount that is owed. Arrangements are therefore made on how a member would actually pay back that amount to Public Works. As we speak now, with regard to the Members of the Executive there are no arrears that have accrued. They have paid the money. Those who were in arrears have made good their payment in accordance with the statements. Thank you very much.
Hon Minister, does that mean that the former Deputy Minister Madlala-Routledge was in arrears and did not pay or did you have a special dispensation for her not to pay? Why did the department leave it until such a late date to collect that money from her? It seems to create the impression that some people are untouchable until they leave the Cabinet. Can you please just tell us what happened there and why it happened?
Thank you, Madam Speaker. The question was: How many Members of the Executive owe the state? I think I have answered that. The former Deputy Minister of Health is aware of what she owes to the state. Her office has actually consulted us in terms of the ministerial handbook on whether she is vacating the house belonging to the state. As we all know, one month after Members of the Executive have been released of their duties they have to vacate the residences. Again, if she or he was using a state car, we will pay attention to that, as well as the vacating of offices. There are timelines that have to be honoured.
Obviously, where a Member of the Executive has been released from duty, we will have to do our reconciliation to see whether or not that member owes money or not. If she or he owes, we will communicate with the member in question. There is no isolated incident. As I have said, Members of Parliament who owe us to date are reminded and they will be reminded as we always do with the statements that are sent to them.
Thank you, Madam Speaker. Comrade Minister, the ANC-led government passed a Constitution which guaranteed equality to all its citizens, irrespective of whether a person is a Minister, a Member of Parliament or a member of the public. As long as the person owes the department any money, that money will be collected by using just administrative procedures, which means that a person can be made to acknowledge the debt and make an arrangement to pay that debt. Is this principle still going to be applied to any person or entity or department owing any money to the department in future?
Certainly, such is done. Actually, in the case of the former Deputy Minister of Health we have had discussions and we will indeed enter into negotiations with regard to the money that is owed, which is accrued as a result of the rental, and which arrangements she is going to make to be able to pay us back. We do not doubt that because we understand that the former Deputy Minister understands clearly her obligations, as do all other Members of Parliament. Where there is a debt we will inform hon members of such.
However, I must say, that clearly, in terms of administration there are also things that we ourselves must deal with in terms of our monthly invoices which have not been done, because statements have been sent either quarterly or even every six months. I think those are the issues that we have to correct as a department to ensure that all members who get accommodation from the state are reminded on a monthly basis about what they owe and how they must pay back as well.
Thank you, Madam Speaker. The ACDP shares your concerns, hon Minister, when it comes to debts owed to the state in this particular case, and in general. Could I just enquire from you: One of the concerns relates to the time period over which the debt was incurred. As you are aware, that prescription takes three years from the date when the debt becomes due. What steps have been taken to ensure that the debts are not incurred where persons do not pay and it goes back beyond three years, which then becomes legally unenforceable?
Clearly, in this case that has not arisen, hon member. As I said, we will enter into a debt recovery agreement with the hon former Deputy Minister or any other member. I want to indicate to this House that there are many of you here who have debts with me as a landlady. I will make sure that I send reminders to you and if you owe me for more than two months I will also explain as such and I trust that you will pay me. If you do not pay, we also know what happens if someone does not honour the debt obligations. Scopa is there in Parliament. You will also put me on the spot if I am not following up on the members who are not paying as we all know that these are our obligations