Postponed: General Laws (Anti-Money Laundering and Combatting Terrorism Financing) Amendment Bill: consideration

Meeting report

Due to countrywide loadshedding, Members struggled to log onto the virtual platform on time.

Dr D George (DA) enquired about the Post Bank letter from the Portfolio Committee of Communications and the way forward.

Adv Frank Jenkins, Parliamentary Legal Advisor, explained to Dr George that this is a matter that could be taken up by either informally communicating with other committees or for political party caucuses to make a position.

Dr George requested for the letter to be circulated amongst Members. In his view, the South African Postbank Limited Amendment Bill is a huge matter because it is about establishing a bank. Hence, he believed that Committee Members should discuss the matter.

Adv Jenkins informed the Committee that the request from Mr B Maneli (ANC), Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Communications, indicated that the Standing Committee [on Finance] should peruse the Bill and revert to the Committee on Communications in writing should there be any inputs.

Adv Jenkins suggested that the Standing Committee should deliberate on the matter and form a view within the Committee. However, that does not preclude individual political parties from forming their positions on the matter.

The Chairperson asked Mr Ismail Momoniat, Acting Director-General, National Treasury, how a Bill, which cuts across various other legislations and affects the mandates of other portfolio committees, was being dealt with at the executive level.

Mr Momoniat explained that because of the pervasive impact of the Bill, should there be any changes, National Treasury’s view is that the Bill would not be finalised in time if it had to wait for the inputs of every ministry. So far, only the Department of Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs (COGTA) and the Department of State Security have made inputs. Treasury agreed that all other changes would be put into one Bill.

Mr Momoniat assured the Committee that all government departments had been consulted in the process and made their contributions on some of the clauses.

Mr Momoniat also reminded the Committee that the Minister had informed the Chairperson in the very beginning that the Bill would affect other portfolio committees and thus requested Parliament to find a solution to the matter. For instance, the biggest change which emerged last week was around the issue of non-profit organisations and the Department of Social Development had been consulted.

The Chairperson noted that Ms P Abraham (ANC) was on the platform.

She informed the Chairperson that she was struggling with network and so was Ms M Mabiletsa (ANC) and other Members.

The Chairperson urged Members to log onto the platform quickly because the Committee is behind in its programmes. Other committees had been complaining about the Committee’s slow work process.

Mr S Swart (ACDP) indicated that Annexure C, which was the senior legal counsel opinion, had not been included in the documents that Members were given. He highlighted the importance of Annexure C because the Minister’s letter indicated that Annexure C explained the constitutionality of the Bill.

Dr George asked whether the Committee should consider the Post Bank letter because it is a very important matter.

Adv Jenkins suggested that the Committee first table the letter and then have a short discussion on the matter to establish its position on the Post Bank Bill. After that, the Committee also needed to find out the timeframe from the Committee on Communications to slot in the programme and be briefed on the Bill.

Dr George agreed with the suggestion but indicated that this process must be done swiftly because the Bill is near completion in the Communications Committee.

Mr Swart sought clarity from Mr Momoniat on the wording “legally privileged and confidential” on the legal opinion. The Minister’s letter suggested that Committee Members would find this opinion document helpful, but he was uncertain as to what extent the document could be released in the public domain.

Mr Momoniat explained to Mr Swart that since National Treasury had sent the legal opinion to the Committee, it thus is an indication that the document could be made public. When Treasury discusses the Bill, he would be able to show how the legal opinion has been taken into consideration.

The Chairperson sought further clarity on the meaning of confidential, whether the document was for the attention of the Chairperson, the legal persons of this Committee or for Members of the Committee only.

Adv Empie Van Schoor, Chief Director: Legislation, NT, explained that it was the standard practice of counsel to put “legally privileged and confidential” on the cover page. In her view, the opinion can be made public.

Due to the Committee being unable to form a quorum, the meeting was delayed for 45 minutes and could not proceed.

Mr I Morolong (ANC), Ms M Mabiletsa (ANC) and Ms P Abraham (ANC) were briefly on the platform but immediately were disconnected due to connectivity issues. The Chairperson, Mr Swart, Mr J De Villiers (DA) and Dr George remained the only Members on the platform towards the end.

The Chairperson asked the remaining Members whether the meeting should be postponed to 9am tomorrow morning.

The remaining Members agreed to that proposal.

Mr Swart asked the Chairperson to confirm if he was an Alternate Member on the Committee. He had a Justice Committee meeting which he was obliged to attend [tomorrow]. At the same time, he would like to participate in the finance process however he did not anticipate the finance deliberations would be a quick process.

Dr George indicated that his appointment tomorrow at 8am cannot be changed, but he will get his two colleagues, Mr A Sarupen (DA) and Mr De Villiers, to stand in his place.

Dr George remarked that it was troubling that the Committee could not form a quorum and it did not look good for the Committee.

Dr George requested the letter from the Portfolio Committee on Communications  be circulated among Members.

The Chairperson adjourned the meeting.