Postponed: Challenges and interventions to address governance challenges confronting ITB & Ingonyama Trust; with Deputy Minister

Meeting report

Opening remarks

The Chairperson welcomed the Members, the delegation from the Department of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development (DALRRD), led by Deputy Minister Mcebisi Skwatsha, and the Director General, Mr Mooketsa Ramasodi, as well as the Ingonyama Trust Board (ITB).

The Committee would be briefed by the ITB on a follow up on the interventions of the new Board of Trustees on challenges and interventions to address governance challenges confronting ITB and the Ingonyama Trust. There was a lot in the public domain and the media regarding the restructuring of the Ingonyama Trust as per the last appearance of the Ingonyama Trust before the Committee led by its chairperson, Inkosi Mzimela. From the media reports that were in the public domain, it seemed that Inkosi Mzimela was relieved of his duties as the Chairperson of ITB by the sole Trustee, King Misuzulu kaZwelithini who also took the responsibility to appoint himself as the chairperson of ITB. As the chairperson of the ITB, he is obliged to come before the Committee every time the ITB appears before the Committee to present.

The Chairperson allowed an opportunity for the ITB to take the Committee through the latest developments at the ITB, noting that if the situation was as it was read in the news, the Committee wanted to know the whereabouts of the chairperson of ITB.

Briefing by Ingonyama Trust Board (ITB)

Adv Linda Zama, deputy chairperson, ITB, said it was correct that Inkosi Mzimela was relieved of his duties as Chairperson of ITB and that King Misuzulu KaZwelithini appointed himself to the role of the chairperson of the Board. It then became important for the deputy chairperson of the ITB to solicit the assistance of the Minister because it was glaring that the chairperson of the Board did not seem to fully appreciate what was required of him by the legislation, as the ITB is regulated by an Act of Parliament.

She said she asked the Minister of Agriculture, Land Reform and Rural Development to have a one-on-one meeting with the chairperson, and before the ITB team travelled to Cape Town, it had a virtual meeting with the Minister with the intention of having the Minister introduce the chairperson to the Board and to charter a way forward on how the ITB would proceed its work. However, the new chairperson of ITB did not attend the meeting and the Board was told that he was held up in another meeting. The ITB chairperson was also unavailable in the meeting with the Committee, and usually, according to protocol, there should have been an apology letter from him, but none was received.

Adv Zama reassured the Committee that the work of the ITB would continue because they have a mandate to address matters of agriculture, land reform and rural development and assured the Members of their commitment and that they have a renewed spirit of that commitment compared to what happened in the past. She asked the Members to continue to trust the judgement of the Board.

The Chairperson said the Committee was uncertain about the absence of the chairperson of the ITB and the confusion and turmoil it would bring. He noted that the CEO of ITB was familiar with the uncertainty of the Committee as he was also present in the past when a similar situation happened regarding the chairperson of ITB which left the Committee disheartened about his role in the Trust and was subsequently replaced by Inkosi Mzimela, whom was now also replaced. He then asked Members for their opinion on how the Committee would proceed with the meeting considering the news of the absence of the chairperson of the ITB.

Discussion

Ms B Tshwete (ANC) said it was unfortunate that any chairperson of an entity of the Department would miss their first meeting with the Portfolio Committee and she did not understand why the new chairperson did not send an apology, even after an intervention was held with the Minister, which he also did not attend. The Committee has a responsibility to ensure that entities perform their legislative duties including them coming to account to Parliament. She proposed rescheduling the meeting to a later date because there were many developments in the entity that needed the leadership of the new chairperson to be present before the Committee to steer the ship and to assure the Committee of the direction that the ITB would take.

Mr N Capa (ANC) said an apology from the new chairperson was missing and he was unsure whether there was any constitutional delegation for the deputy chairperson to stand in the absence of the chairperson in such meetings. It also did not seem like the ITB was properly delegated with people to deal with the contents of the meeting, which brought some uncertainty to the Committee. He then agreed that the meeting should be rescheduled, noting that the Board must first resolve its issues.

Mr S Dlamini (ANC) was concerned that the matter was in the public domain and how it was being handled because, as he understood, the ITB chairperson was dealing with other matters relating to his position as King of the Zulu nation that the Committee would not be able to deal with in Parliament. He agreed with the postponement of the meeting to a later date until the ITB chairperson is available.

Ms T Mbabama (DA) did not agree with the postponement of the meeting even though she did not want to undermine the impact of the absence of the chairperson of the Board. She felt that the business of the day should go on as she did not see a reason to cancel the meeting as the meeting was well delegated and the people present were in touch with the issues. From her reading of the presentation, she was excited that for the first time, it seemed that the Ingonyama Trust was on the right path and wanted to hear more about that. She asked that the ITB chairperson and his advisors be allowed to acclimate themselves with the procedures and protocols of Parliament. She warned that the Committee should not be guided by what was happening in the media.

The Chairperson said he had started off by mentioning the history that the Committee had experienced regarding the absence of an ITB chairperson, which the ITB CEO could attest to which gave the Committee headaches. In this regard, a new Board was instituted and led by Inkosi Mzimela, who was subsequently removed and the sole Trustee, King Misuzulu KaZwelithini, who instituted himself as the new ITB chairperson. According to legislation, the chairperson of the Board is to appear before the Committee of Parliament to engage on every presentation required from the ITB.

The deputy chairperson mentioned that the chairperson failed to attend a meeting with the Minister within which he was to be informed of his legislative duties, and he also failed to attend the meeting with the Committee and did not submit an apology. Was this a board that the chairperson and the Trustee sent before Parliament? Was the delegation of the ITB before the Committee still representing the Trustee who has become the chairperson of the Board? Those are the things that the Committee needed certainty on and needed not to be driven by excitement about.

The Committee should engage with the parliamentary legal services on whether a Trustee can be a chairperson of the same Trust. Those things must be addressed and attended to before the Committee can engage further with the Ingonyama Trust, and a strong request will be sent to the chairperson stating that he is required by legislation to come before the Committee of Parliament. The Committee could not proceed with uncertainty because it was unsure who the delegation present in the meeting represented. The Board was established to represent the interests of the sole Trustee, who has become the chairperson of the Board, and was not present in the meeting, did not attend a meeting with the Minister, and did not tender an apology with the Portfolio Committee.

There were outstanding questions that the Committee had requested that the ITB respond to in writing and the responses were sent to the Committee. The Chairperson asked if Members had an opportunity to engage with the responses and whether they had any follow-up questions so they could also be responded to in writing or when the ITB returns to the Committee with its chairperson.

Mr Dlamini supported the sentiments shared by the Chairperson. He added that the Committee was not judging the ITB officials who were present as guilty or not guilty, but were requesting a postponement because their chairperson had to be present.

Ms Tshwete said the Committee was doing its oversight on the ITB and its officials, which is its legislative mandate, so whatever position is held by an individual outside of Parliament does not count inside Parliament because the oversight duties of Parliament supersede that role. Regarding the written responses, she said she could not find the response to the Committee's question about how far the Board was in implementing the findings of the court judgement where the ITB was meant to refund the money that people paid.

Mr N Masipa (DA) said the Committee would need to look at its timelines around the matter of the ITB as Parliament will rise soon because of the upcoming elections. He asked whether it would be possible for the Committee to conduct an oversight visit at the Royal Palace so that it could get some answers to some of the outstanding matters.

The Chairperson said the ITB is not located at the Royal Palace but at the uMgungundlovu Local Municipality in Pietermaritzburg. The responsibility of the Committee was not to His Royal Majesty, but to the Board, which has a chairperson and a deputy chairperson, a CEO and CFO, and a sole Trustee, and is funded by the Department.

Ms Mbabama said she had several questions regarding the responses to the Committee’s previous questions in the last meeting, but considering the circumstances, she felt the need to hold on to her questions. She was also concerned that Parliament would be rising soon and that leaving things hanging in the air would be untidy for the Committee’s Legacy Report.

The Chairperson said the Committee would look at the earliest date available as this was an urgent matter for it because it was in the midst of wrapping up its work and giving input on its Legacy Report. The Committee was not going to leave matters hanging as it was not a clumsy Committee and it always did its work with dignity.

Mr Capa wanted to know who was supposed to formally inform the Committee about the developments that the Committee only knew through the media.

The Chairperson said the Department accounts to the Committee with its entities, so the Committee did not receive anything official in writing from the ITB regarding what was circulating in the media, which was the reason members did not receive any information.

Adv Zama said the ITB also heard things through the media just as the Committee did. Even the Minister heard things through the media, which is why she ended up approaching the Minister and informing her of the need to meet with the chairperson of ITB. The chairperson of ITB then brought the Traditional Prime Minister, who does not count in terms of the law. She apologised to the Committee, noting that the interventions by the Minister were meant to address the issues at hand and urged the Committee to stick to what needs to be done to resolve the matter.

Mr Vela Mngwengwe, CEO, ITB, said the Minister is responsible for informing the Committee and the Board should come to the Committee to inform it of its changes, but in terms of the sequence of events that happened, the Minister only met with the chairperson of the Board on 22 February and the Minister was uncertain of what was going on as it was still speculation. There was correspondence, but from the media reports, it was said that some of the correspondence had faltered. The Minister was only certain of these changes on 22 February 2024 so the Minister might not have had an opportunity to inform the Committee because of those timelines.
 
The Chairperson said this was precisely the reason he objected to continuing with the proceedings of the meeting because the ITB is not a Traditional Council. A Traditional Prime Minister has no role in an entity of the Department, so this was concerning. The Committee must adjourn the meeting and look at the earliest available date to get clarity on the issues because for the new Board to do the work it is supposed to do, the cloud of uncertainty must be cleared.

Deputy Minister Skwatsha said there was only one meeting with the new ITB chairperson, which was on 22 February, as stated by the CEO. The Traditional Prime Minister, who is a Mayor of Zululand, also entered the frame by making adverse remarks which would not take things forward on the matter, hence the importance and the urgency of the meeting that must be held with the new chairperson so that matters are cleared at once for the sake of the future.

The Chairperson said the Committee Secretariat confirmed to him that the Committee did not receive any written communication from the Minister after the meeting with the new ITB chairperson, but the Committee will enquire about the latest developments from the Minister. He requested that as much as the Committee want the chairperson of the ITB to come before it, the Committee must also request that the Minister is present in the meeting as well so that the matters that were seen in the media are also resolved.

He thanked the Deputy Minister and the officials of the Department, the ITB Board and the Members for their availability in the meeting. He said the earliest date that the Committee can reschedule the meeting is 26 March before Parliament rises and requested that Members mark the date on their diaries for a physical meeting in Parliament so that the matter can be concluded.

The meeting was adjourned.