We have seen the looting of the SABC exactly on account of this. Today I recuse myself from a decision and the hon so and so will look after my interests. Tomorrow the hon so and so will recuse himself and I will in turn look after his business interests. That is the practical reality; that is what is happening. That is how Public Service officials are looting the resources of the state. Will government commit itself to barring the conducting of business between an employee of the state and the state itself? I am referring to all departments, all the way through. [Interjections.] [Applause.]