Chairperson, the governing party is very clear on matters of principle. As I said, it is a combination of what the hon Mkhwanazi is saying, commitment to nonracialism; commitment to affirming marginalised populations or sections of our population; and at the same time utilising the best talents that we have in this country wherever it is possible including the factor of merit as well. All we need to do is to look at the annual reports of these SOEs