Hon Deputy Speaker, hon members, on behalf of the Portfolio Committee on the Public Service and Administration, let me take this opportunity to support the Minister for the Public Service and Administration ... [Interjections.] ... in the passing of the Public Administration Management Bill, [B55 - 2013]. It is abbreviated as the "PAM Bill", in this House.
The Bill was referred to the National Assembly by the National Council of Provinces ... [Interjections.]
Order, hon member! There is a speaker at the podium. Order, please! Continue, hon member.
... in tandem with section 76(2) of the Constitution. Our committee then supported the Bill and therefore moves for its adoption.
I want to emphasise that the Public Administration Management Bill will ensure that the administration on three levels of government is more collaborative, effective and efficient in the delivering of services to the citizens of this country. Every South African, especially the poor, must experience an improved quality of life - while the DA is walking out, or ... I don't know what they are doing. [Interjections.] Every South African, especially those that are poor, understands that there is a need for this Bill.
The Freedom Charter does make it very clear that the people shall govern and therefore that is where we are moving to. Through the passing of this Bill we will be propelling South Africa forward towards the realisation of the vision of a developmental state that is free from acts of unethical conduct by the public servants in all three spheres of government. For the very first time in the history of our country, we have a Bill that cuts across the three spheres of government, giving particular attention to the most neglected, that is, local government and the municipalities. We have seen the erupting service delivery strikes that have mushroomed consistently, and this Bill has all the intentions to ensure intervention into that area.
The distribution of capacity across the board to our municipalities can now be realised. Indeed, this is a major achievement. Surely, there will be a significant change on the delivery of services, as capable skills will be deployed, even at the level of municipalities, as indicated. Coupled with that, the School of Government will ensure sustainability of skills within the Public Service.
Our government is fully committed to a clean, transparent, accountable, effective and efficient management and administration of the Public Service within these three spheres of government. This is a necessary undertaking for us, which we must accomplish with unflinching commitment. If we do not confront this immediate task with the necessary responsibility, the wellbeing of our people and the progressive realisation of their constitutional rights might be compromised. That is why, as the portfolio committee, we really support the good work that the department has done in terms of developing this legislation.
As a developmental state, the Public Service, in particular, ought to play a pivotal role in addressing the highlighted challenges, especially poverty alleviation. However, this can come to fruition only if our Public Service operates in a manner that ensures efficient quality, collaboration and accountable service delivery. We therefore believe that the Public Administration Management Bill, amongst other things, represents an added effort for progressive change in our system of public administration and management in South Africa, as a sovereign, democratic and developmental state.
Our premise, as the portfolio committee, and the Minister for the Public Service and Administration, is on the Constitution of the country. Chapter 10 section 195 of the Constitution clearly stipulates the basic values and principles that govern the public administration. We therefore believe that the Public Administration Management Bill is underpinned by the noble values and principles enshrined in the Constitution.
As we know, public administration is about work done by officials within government institutions in order to contribute in general to the wellbeing of our people. It must be noted, though, that from the various reports that are occasionally presented before Parliament by Chapter 9 and 10 institutions, such as the Auditor-General and the Public Service Commission, government still needs to uproot all elements of unethical conduct, in general, and corruption, in particular. This is critical if government aspires to achieve the kind of public administration envisaged in the Constitution. It is important, then, to ensure that our people do reap the benefits within this very important legislation, and we thank the Minister for the hard work on putting forward this legislation. Thank you.
There was no debate.
Declarations of vote:
Adjunkspeaker, die meerderheid van die DA het uitgeloop as protes teen hierdie ondermyning van die parlementre proses wat vandag hier aan die gang is. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Mr S J F MARAIS: Deputy Speaker, the majority of the DA walked out as a token of protest against this undermining of the parliamentary process which is taking place here today.]
This is a new Bill, and I must state that we have never agreed not to debate this Bill. I must say, I never thought that I would experience the day that the Minister would refuse to have a proper debate in Parliament. This is the first time.
This is a poor piece of legislation, precisely what Minister Manuel warned us against yesterday. This Bill was rushed through Parliament at such a speed, despite the obvious negative consequences, that the hon David Maynier would argue it is with the same speed and consequential waste of money as the use of a Gulfstream jet. Both the parliamentary process as well as not allowing a debate borders on the abuse of parliamentary protocol and privilege. It became clear that no input to the Bill would be entertained, as it would imply no consideration of this Bill before 13 March. The process left much to be desired and did not serve the best interests of a more efficient and corrupt-free state.
Beide die Nasionale Ontwikkelingsplan en die Staatsdienskommissie het verwys na ons onbevoegde staat, wat bevestig dat die kop van die vis vrot is en dat die regruk-aksie by die nasionale komponent moet begin. Ons ervaar 'n beheptheid met die inmenging in die sake van provinsiale en plaaslike regerings. Hierdie wetsontwerp is deurspek met onduidelikhede en teenstrydighede, en met verwarring en swak dienslewering gaan dit net vererger. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Both the National Development Plan and the Public Service Commission referred to our incompetent government, which confirms that the head of the fish is rotten and that the action to put things straight should begin with the national component. We experience an obsession when interference in the matters of the provincial and local governments takes place. This Bill is punctuated by obscurities and contradictions, and confusion and poor service delivery will only help to aggravate it.]
The Western Cape government, the SA Local Government Association, Salga, and trade unions, like the National Education Health and Allied Workers Union, Nehawu, agreed with us on the undesirability of the clause on the secondment of an employee without consent.
Die DA is teen sekondering sonder die instemming van die werknemer en die twee betrokke instansies. Regulasies is nou 'n opsie vir die Minister die staat kan enige personeellid van enige staatsinstansie na enige ander herontplooi. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[The DA is against secondment without the agreement of the employer and the two parties involved. Now regulation has become an option to the Minister and the government can re-employ any staff member of any institution of state to any other.]
This Bill will not curb the wave of state corruption. It should include family members of employees and, specifically, advisors to the executives. These categories are at the root of many corrupt activities.
Die Mediumtermynbegroting en die 2014 Begroting maak nie ekstra voorsiening vir ekstra fondse beskikbaar vir die drie strukture wat die Minister wil bevestig nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[The Medium-Term Budget and the Budget for 2014 do not make extra provision for extra funds available to the three structures which the Minister wishes to confirm.]
Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: I would like the hon member to withdraw his assertion that the Minister has refused to debate this Bill. He is misleading the House. He has absolutely no right to come here and say things that are untrue. I would like him to withdraw it.
Chairperson, that was my understanding. If I was misled by the information, then I withdraw it, but that was still my understanding. [Interjections.]
Die idee van 'n nasionale skool vir regeringsamptenare is finansieel nie lewensvatbaar en nie volhoubaar nie, en die Ouditeur-generaal het ook sy kommer uitgespreek. Geen party wat erns het met demokrasie en 'n korrupsievrye staatsdiens kan hierdie wetsontwerp steun nie. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[The concept of a national school for government officials is financially not viable and not sustainable, and the Auditor-General also expressed his concern. No party that is serious about democracy and a corruption-free government can support this Bill. I thank you.]
Deputy Speaker, the National Development Plan highlighted the need for a professional, efficient Public Service to enable the country to develop to its full potential. The objects of the Bill are basically to give effect to the democratic values and principles of section 195 of the Constitution, including a high standard of professional ethics, efficient, economic and effective use of resources, and public services which are accountable, transparent and provided impartially, fairly and equitably. These the ACDP clearly supports.
There are a number of good provisions in this Bill. We particularly support the provisions that seek to combat corruption in the Public Service by prohibiting employees from conducting business with the state or from being a director of a public or private company that conducts business with the state. Failure to comply may result in disciplinary action. We also support the provisions requiring employees to disclose their financial interests. Again, failure to do so constitutes misconduct.
These provisions may have been further strengthened had we inserted a cooling-off period for public servants who leave the service of the state specifically in order to do business with the state. We understand that this clause was in the original draft, but was removed. This is a pity, as it would have strengthened the anticorruption campaign. Of course, Corruption Watch also raised this issue.
We also support the creation of the Public Administration Ethics, Integrity and Disciplinary Technical Assistance Unit. How many public servants are suspended on full pay, awaiting disciplinary hearings to be finalised, which, in some circumstances, can take years to complete? We trust that this unit will assist in this regard.
We also call on the incoming Minister for the Public Service and Administration, whoever that may be, to look at the whistle-blower Act, the Protected Disclosures Act. This Act can and must be strengthened, as whistle-blowers in the public domain have been victimised and even been killed for exposing corrupt acts. So, there are some very good clauses in this Bill.
However, we also share concerns about the transfer and secondment of staff. This can be done, in some cases, without consent. What are the implications of this in terms of the existing Labour Relations Act? If you have trade unions having concerns, then there is a problem here that needs to be looked at closely. What happens if this is done to punish civil servants who do not toe a certain political line? We need to be aware of that.
We also share concerns about the constitutionality of the Bill. I was involved in the certification of the National Constitution, where the provincial and local government powers were highlighted. Those of us that were involved will remember that that constitutional text was referred back to Parliament because there were insufficient provincial and local government powers. We are slightly concerned that, whilst we have to balance those powers with sections 195 and 197, we believe that the latter clauses do not necessarily trump those original clauses. So, whilst we see there is a lot of good in the Bill, we, regrettably, won't be able to support it. Thank you, hon Minister.
Hon Madam Deputy Speaker, hon members, South Africa needs a Public Service that maintains a high standard of professional ethics. The country also needs an integrated Public Service made up of suitably qualified and well-experienced individuals. Azapo also believes that it should be possible for the state as an employer to transfer employees to where the services are most needed. Conditions change and certain sections may shrink or functions be transferred, leading to employees being redundant or additional to the establishments.
Azapo supports the idea that consent of such employees should be sought and hopes that the consent will not be unreasonably withheld. Transferring employees is better than retrenching them. The employer and the unions signed an agreement in the Education Labour Relations Council, ELRC, to facilitate the redeployment of educators who were in excess or additional to the establishment. We hope that the Department of Public Service and Administration has drawn lessons from the education sector on what can go wrong during the implementation process.
There have been many reports of corruption in the awarding of contracts and tenders. One of the reasons for such irregularities has been the fact that some public servants awarded tenders to companies in which they or their relatives had financial interests. Azapo therefore supports the prohibition of public servants from conducting business with the state. We also support the provision that employees should disclose their financial interests and those of their spouses.
One way of professionalising the Public Service is through capacity development and training. Technology changes, and it will be necessary for employees to be involved in continuous professional development. Azapo believes that the state as an employer must contribute towards such training. Prescribing minimum norms and standards will go a long way towards the improvement of the quality of service that citizens receive. But prescribing norms without enforcing them will not help, that is why Azapo supports the establishment of an office of standards and compliance. Azapo supports the Public Administration Management Bill. I thank you. [Applause.]
Hon speaker, the Bill before us, the Public Administration Management Bill, has been in the making longer than any other Bill in this democratic Parliament, you know that. It was conceptualised in 2002. There was a need to create uniform standards across all spheres of government, and we all know that. The Bill was then placed before Parliament as early as 2007, but was withdrawn in 2008 for the purpose of thorough consultation - which is what has happened - and to ensure that all other areas are aligned.
The department worked in restructuring all areas of the Bill; we, as the committee, were also part of these engagements. It has also been called to Parliament from time to time in 2012 to ensure that all possible complaints as well as any unconstitutional issues were dealt with.
In the past two years, the Ministry consulted widely with no more than 400 interested parties and entities, NGOs, private individuals, civic organisations, organised labour and the state entities, hence the member who is here knows the National Economic Development and Labour Council process - which is very critical. Several workshops, where members were part of this, were conducted. They were held with some of the top legal minds in the country.
We are more than convinced that anybody who stands against this Bill is doing it because they live in luxury where service delivery is not a problem. Anybody who is opposed to this Bill does not know the poverty of the poorest of the poor. The DA is objecting to this Bill, because they have contributed absolutely nothing.
Actually, the DA's reshuffling of members, moving them from one committee to another, was a disservice to them. They moved members in and out of committees and brought in members who didn't even have any background in those committees. They were shooting themselves in the foot. They need to learn that if they randomly change committee members, actually, in the end, those members are not helpful in the committees. Instead these members lack capacity and ultimately are not of any help to us. They are just baggage that is carried along by the ANC.
This is the best Bill to solve problems in this country such as municipal strikes. The ANC says yes to professionalising the Public Service, but the DA says no. Read them for who they are. The ANC says yes to the effective use of resources, but the DA says no, yet they always squabble about it. The ANC says services have to be provided fairly and equitably, but the DA says no - they will vote no even now. The ANC says yes to stopping corruption and corrupt practices in the Public Service, but the DA says no, yet they are always complaining about corruption. When we come up with measures to deal with that directly, they say no. The ANC says yes to good governance, but the DA says no. Let the entire South Africa know that this is the message that the DA is sending, negativity and selfishness. Thank you. [Time expired.]. [Applause.]
Question put: That the Bill be read a second time.
Division demanded.
The House divided.
AYES - 233: Adams, P E; Ainslie, A R; Bam-Mugwanya, V; Bapela, K O; Beukman, F; Bhengu, N R; Bhengu, F; Bhengu, P; Bhoola, R B; Bikani, F C; Bogopane-Zulu, H I; Bonhomme, T; Booi, M S; Borman, G M; Boshigo, D F; Botha, Y R; Botha, T; Bothman, S G; Burgess, C V; Carrim, Y I; Cebekhulu, R N; Chikunga, L S; Chili, D O; Chiloane, T D; Chohan, F I; Coleman, E M; Cronin, J P; Dambuza, B N; Daniels, P N; Davies, R H; De Lange, J H; Diale, L N; Diemu, B C; Dikgacwi, M M; Dikobo, K J; Dlakude, D E; Dlamini, B O; Dlomo, B J; Dlulane, B N; Dubazana, Z S; Dube, M C; Duma, N M; Dunjwa, M L; Ferguson, B D; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gasebonwe, T M A; Gaum, A H; Gcwabaza, N E; Gelderblom, J P; Gigaba, K M N; Gina, N; Gololo, C L; Goqwana, M B; Gumede, D M; Holomisa, S P; Huang, S B; Jeffery, J H; Joemat- Pettersson, T M; Johnson, M; Kekana, C D; Kenye, T E; Khoarai, L P; Kholwane, S E; Khumalo, F E; Khunou, N P; Koornhof, G W; Kotsi, C M P; Kubayi, M T; Kwankwa, N L; Landers, L T; Lekgetho, G; Lesoma, R M M; Lishivha, T E; Luyenge, Z; Maake, J J; Mabasa, X; Mabedla, N R; Mabudafhasi, T R; Mabuza, M C; Madlala, N M; Madlopha, C Q; Magagula, V V; Magubane, E; Magwanishe, G; Makasi, X C; Makhuba, H N; Makhubela-Mashele, L S; Makhubele, Z S; Makwetla, SP; Malale, M I; Malgas, H H; Maluleka, H P; Maluleke, J M; Manamela, K B; Manana, M C; Mandela, Z M D; Manganye, J; Mangena, M S; Martins, B A D; Maserumule, F T; Mashiane, L M; Mashigo, R M; Mashishi, A C; Masilo, J M; Mathale, C C; Mathebe, D H; Mathibela, N F; Matlanyane, H F; Matshoba, J M; Maunye, M M; Mavunda, D W; Mayatula, S M; Maziya, A M; Mbalula, F A; Mdakane, M R; Mfeketo, N C; Mfulo, A; Mfundisi, I S; Mgabadeli, H C; Mjobo, L N; Mkhize, H B; Mkhulusi, N N P; Mlangeni, A; Mmusi, S G; Mnisi, N A; Mocumi, P A; Moepeng, J K; Mohai, S J; Mohale, M C; Mohorosi, M M; Mokoena, A D; Molebatsi, M A; Moloi-Moropa, J C; Moloto, K A; Moss, L N; Motimele, M S; Motsepe, R M; Motshekga, M S; Mpontshane, A M; Msimang, C T; Msweli, H S; Mtshali, E; Mufamadi, T A; Mushwana, F F; Nchabeleng, M E; Ndebele, J S; Ndlazi, A Z; Nelson, W J; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngcobo, B T; Ngcobo, E N N; Ngonyama, L S; Ngubeni-Maluleka, J P; Ngwenya-Mabila, P C; Nhanha, M A; Nhlengethwa, D G; Njikelana, S J; Njobe, M A A; November, N T; Ntapane, S Z; Ntuli, B M; Nwamitwa-Shilubana, T L P; Nxesi, T W; Nxumalo, M D; Nyalungu, R E; Nyanda, S; Nyekemba, E; Nzimande, B E; Oliphant, M N; Oliphant, G G; Oosthuizen, G C; Pandor, G N M; Petersen Maduna, P; Phaahla, M J; Phaliso, M N; Pilane-Majake, M C C; Pilusa-Mosoane, M E; Pule, D D; Radebe, B A; Radebe, G S; Ramatlakane, L; Ramatlhodi, N A; Ramodibe, D M; Saal, G; Schneemann, G D; Segale-Diswai, M J; Sekgobela, P S; Selau, G J; September, C C; Shabangu, S; Sibanyoni, J B; Sibiya, D; Sindane, G S; Singh, N; Sisulu, M V; Sisulu, L N; Sithole, K P; Sithole, S C N; Sizani, P S; Skosana, J J; Smith, P F; Smith, V G; Sogoni, E M; Sonto, M R; Sosibo, J E; Sotyu, M M; Suka, L; Sulliman, E M; Sunduza, T B; Surty, M E; Thibedi, J D; Thobejane, S G; Thomson, B; Tlake, M F; Tsebe, S R; Tseke, G K; Tshabalala, J; Tshwete, P; Tsotetsi, D R; Twala, N M; van Rooyen, D D ; van Wyk, A; Wayile, Z G; Williams-De Bruyn, S T; Xaba, P P; Xasa, T; Ximbi, D L; Yengeni, L E; Zikalala, C N Z; Zulu, B Z.
NOES - 20: Alberts, A D; Du Toit, N D; Dudley, C; Farrow, S B; Groenewald, P J; Kalyan, S V; Line-Hendriks, H; Lorimer, J R B; Marais, E J; Marais, S J F; Mcintosh, G B D; Mulder, C P; Mulder, P W A; Sayedali-Shah, M R; Shinn, M R; Smuts, M; Swart, S N; Swart, M; Van Schalkwyk, H C; Watson, A.
Question agreed to.
Bill accordingly read a second time.