Chairperson, the response to the question is that the Department of Mineral Resources established the Mining Industry Growth, Development and Employment Task Team, Migdett, in December 2008 in response to the implosion of the global economic and financial crisis. The Migdett mandate was two-pronged, namely to collectively develop a mechanism to mitigate the impact of impending job losses as a result of the crisis, and to develop a strategy to prepare a trajectory for long-term labour absorptive growth for the industry once the crisis receded.
The work of Migdett remains active to date, as the crisis has been protracted. The Platinum Task Team was specifically established to respond to the challenges faced by the sector in June last year, and it culminated in a report of Migdett being adopted by the respective principals. This report demonstrates the continued effort of the department to mitigate job losses and to work with business to find the means to restore the long-term viability of the sector. Thank you.
I see that there are a number of supplementary questions, and amongst them there is hon A Steyn, hon Hlengwa, hon Bhanga and hon Lorimer. It seems to be the same people asking questions. [Interjections.]
Chairperson, it is nice today in Parliament! Thank you, Deputy Minister. In regard to the proposed programme and strategy that we have come up with, what tangible impact does that have on the daily lives of the ordinary mineworkers who are confronted by this reality? What monitoring mechanism have you put in place in order to detect whether the programme is working or not? Thank you.
Chairperson, it is clear that hon Bhanga does not participate in the portfolio committee, where the information on the impact is given on a regular basis.
You will recall that after the crisis we reported that we could prevent the loss of over 100 000 jobs in the industry. We continue to do so on an ongoing basis and, as we said, in this crisis they are still protected. For instance, just to give a recent example, we have been busy with the Platinum Task Team, which has looked into how to protect jobs and ensure that they are not lost, as we have said.
In the Budget Speech last week the Minister gave some indication of jobs that have been saved in this process by our talking to industries and trade unions to ensure that we minimise job losses in the industry. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
I call on the hon Steyn.
That was for the previous question, Chair.
So how come it has come onto my screen? All right. Then, does the hon Lorimer wish to put a question?
Yes, indeed, Madam Chair.
Then it will be the hon Hlengwa.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Deputy Minister, you say that Migdett is the answer to job losses. Well, it's not working. Jobs have been lost at Coal of Africa and jobs are being lost in the gold sector. You may be proud that government has saved jobs at Amplats, but the fact is that 6 000 jobs have been lost at Amplats.
Rather than threatening companies if they try to cut jobs, would the government not better spend its time and energy in creating a climate where investors want to invest, and where companies can operate easily, so that they are not put in a position where they want to cut jobs?
Hon Lorimer, this government cannot afford to do nothing when there are problems in the mining industry. [Applause.] We have to intervene, and this intervention of Migdett has worked very well for this country. This intervention has been lauded by the mining industry, the trade unions and the government. It has worked. It's a tripartite system that has worked. How we have resolved and continue to resolve problems in this country is by talking to each other at these forums that we are talking about.
It has been the history of this country, even within Nedlac, that we talk to partners and stakeholders to minimise the negative global impact in the country. For instance, you talk about Amplats and say that we have lost 6 000 jobs. However, you cannot say that for sure, because the task team is still working to ensure that we minimise job losses, so they are not to the extent that you are talking about. So, you don't have all the facts.
In regard to investors, we meet them all the time in our daily lives, and they do not talk the language you are talking. There are investors here. I told you last week that in the platinum, zinc and other industries, like manganese, there are programmes and projects that are shovel ready. Investors are coming and investing in this country.
We do recognise that there are industrial relations problems in the country. However, the Minister of Labour, the Minister of Mineral Resources and the Deputy President are involved with interventions, and there are responses that are very positive.
I would advise you to update yourself on the positive impact that is being made in the industry, rather than just staying negative about the ANC government. You won't succeed. [Applause.]
House Chairperson, Deputy Minister, the National Development Plan charges the Department of Mineral Resources to create 300 000 jobs by 2013. Now, in the light of the job-shedding that is taking place in the mining industry, do you still believe that you are on track with this target. If so, what urgent plans are in place to help retain those jobs? Secondly, with regard to the issue of Migdett that you alluded to, how far are you with aligning that with the prescripts of the National Development Plan?
Hon Chairperson, I thank the hon member very much. Alignment is an ongoing process. When we align with the NDP, we are not talking about the Migdett process only, because the Migdett process is one element of trying to have stakeholders talk about the issues around this matter, both positive and negative. So alignment, generally, with the policies is an ongoing process.
In regard to job creation, I am not able to give you the statistics now, but our daily interventions and so on are to attract investment to ensure that jobs are created.
We have rolled this out to you, hon members. We have said that part of the expansion in the mining industry is the new mines that are coming on stream. To give you one example, of a possible 10 000 jobs that will be coming on stream in the near future, we have one of the biggest zinc deposits in the Northern Cape that will be ramping up in 2015. So, lots of jobs will be created there.
We have also outlined to Parliament a beneficiation strategy that will ensure that we not only export mineral resources in their raw form from this country, but that we add value. Those are job spinners that are coming, and work is happening as we speak.
So, I can assure you of this. While I cannot give you the statistics for sure now in regard to how many jobs will be created, but I can say, you can rest assured that we are marching forward in the mining industry. Thank you. [Applause.]
Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister, in the light of the upcoming collective bargaining period, how possible will it be for the Minister of Mineral Resources, as well as the Minister of Labour, to ensure that there are discussions on, firstly, an acceptable minimum wage for all employees in the mining industry and, secondly, doing away with the Paterson grading system? Thank you.
Chairperson, I thank the hon member very much. We have all hands on deck on this matter relating to what should be happening to stabilise the mining industry. I think you will recall that the President intervened and the Deputy President is also busy with the process of dealing with the general stabilisation of labour relations in the industry.
Secondly, in regard to the collective bargaining period that we are talking about, we know that this is a very difficult time for the mining industry, and it has always been looked at as the strike season. However, you will recall that the National Union of Mineworkers has taken the step of inviting the Chamber of Mines to pre-bargaining negotiations to try to see how they can best deal with this difficult task.
The last question that you raised, hon member, is about the Paterson band grading scheme. I think it is a matter that is in the purview of collective bargaining and negotiations, and I think the trade unions and employers must be able to guide us as to how best to continue with or get out of that system. Thank you. [Applause.]
Madam Chair, I wish to put a point of order.
What is the problem?
Madam Chair, we traditionally allow four follow-up questions. I know that hon Schmidt put his name forward, but you are moving forward without asking if there are any others.
The screen has gone blank. That means that four questions were ...
Madam Chair, with respect, I approached the National Assembly Table and told them that hon Schmidt would like his name to be included.
Well, his name was there but it was removed. That is why I did not call him. I suggest you write a letter that they upgrade all the systems.
Sorry, Madam Chair. [Interjections.]
Apparently, it is at the discretion of the Chair to decide how many follow-up questions will be taken, and the DA already had two questions.
Madam Chair, it is four questions, but the Rules do not specify that it has to rotate in terms of party.
Yes, all right, but it says that the person in the Chair can decide how many questions will be taken.
So, Madam Chair, may I ask whether you are suppressing the debate then? [Interjections.]
I am not suppressing the debate. [Interjections.]
I would respectfully submit that if you are blocking a question, Madam Chair, you are suppressing the debate.
No, I'm not suppressing the debate, and please take your seat. [Interjections.] The Minister of Tourism apparently ... [Interjections.] Can somebody from the Table come up here?
Hon Chairperson ...
Where is the Deputy Minister? Ah, there she is sitting.
Hon Chairperson, can I perhaps just refer you to the Rule?
Sorry, Mrs Kilian and the Deputy Minister look very much alike today, so I'm unable to tell the difference. [Laughter.] Can we please get on with the debate? Yes, Mrs Kilian, what is your point of order?
Chairperson, I actually had a look, and we have four supplementary questions in terms of Rule 113(4). I think what maybe led to the confusion was the fact that our member stood in. Hon Mzwenqaba Bhanga stood in for the hon Mbhele. I think maybe that is what contributed to the confusion. However, in addition to his supplementary question, there could be three others. Thank you.
Thank you for the information. Hon Deputy Minister ...
Madam Chair, may I address you, please? [Interjections.]
What is it, Mrs Kalyan?
Madam, at the Chief Whips' Forum today we discussed the fact that we would always respect the ruling of the presiding officer, and we agreed on this. However, I regret, Madam, that this afternoon I cannot respect you, because some of your decisions have not been in the interest of fair debate. [Interjections.]
You reflected just now that it is in your discretion to allow follow-up questions. Because the DA had two, you thought it was one too many. Now, Madam, when you make a ruling like that, in all honesty we cannot say that there is fairness and justness on your part in the way you are treating the opposition parties. [Interjections.]
A point of order, House Chair. [Interjections.]
May I reply to Mrs Kalyan?
House Chair, may I address you? [Interjections.]
Just hold on a moment, whoever you are.
House Chair, may I address you?
Yes, just hold on a second. Let me reply to her.
First of all, the name "Steyn" was an old name that came up and that we removed. Then, we had the hon Hlengwa from the IPF, the hon Bhanga, the hon Lorimer and the hon Bikani. [Interjections.] Yes, we did. So, please get your names and your figures right. Yes, Madam.
House Chair, I would like to address you. With due respect to my colleague from the DA, this morning in the Chief Whips' Forum we indeed reflected on the decorum of the House and ensuring that we maintained that.
Part of what we said was that if a presiding officer made a ruling that we did not agree with, we as members of the House would definitely follow the relevant procedure, which has not been the case here. The relevant procedure is to take the matter up with the presiding officers, to write to them and request them to look at the Rules in that regard and to request that the ruling be reviewed.
I am appealing to the House today that we should try our level best to make sure that proceedings run smoothly, and that we therefore maintain the decorum of the House. If we as members are not happy with the presiding officer's rulings, we have a platform on which to take them up. I am really appealing to all members from both sides of the House. [Interjections.]
Thank you, Acting Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party.
May I continue, Chair?
Please, hon Deputy Minister, continue.
Tourism co-ordinating structures at local government level
154. Mr L P Khoarai (ANC) asked the Minister of Tourism:
What steps has his department taken following the recommendations of institutional arrangements in the National Tourism Sector Strategy (NTSS) to ensure that there are tourism coordinating structures like local government bureaus at local government?