2023 Fiscal Framework & Revenue Proposals: Committee Report

Meeting report

Chairperson Maswanganyi welcomed the Select Committee on Finance and Standing Committee on Finance to the joint meeting. The main agenda was considering and adopting the 2023 Revised Fiscal Framework and revenue proposals.

Chairperson Maswanganyi congratulated Mr I Morolong (ANC) on his appointment as Deputy Minister in the Presidency and Ms D Peters (ANC), who was appointed as Deputy Minister of Small Business.

Report on 2023 Fiscal Framework and Revenue Proposals

Committee Observations and Recommendations

Chairperson Maswanganyi took Members through the relevant paragraph and asked for input.

Chairperson Carrim added that 8.1.1 should reflect the differences between National Treasury (NT) and the South African Reserve Bank’s (SARB) forecasts.

On point 8.1.2, Chairperson Carrim made the addition that the implemented plans must include the master plan of economic reconstruction recovery plan.

He also made the addition, on point 8.1.3, that the high unemployment rate reflects the expanded definition of unemployment which stood at 42.6%.

Ms P Abraham (ANC) proposed, on point 8.2.1, that the word ‘welcome’ should be replaced with ‘noted’.

Regarding point 8.2.5, Chairperson Maswanganyi said this point should strongly reflect the role of small and medium enterprises (SMEs), especially rural women cooperatives. He said that this needed to be empowered, as it was a massive programme run by government.

Continuing on that point, Chairperson Carrim recommended that NT engages on these issues in the next six months at their quarterly meeting. This was as it would ensure the issues are addressed, NT has time to prepare, and Members can work on their positions.

Mr D Ryder (DA, Gauteng) added, on point 8.2.6, that the Committee welcomed the flexibility and the reactive response of NT to ensure a balanced approach.

Continuing on that point, Ms Abraham said the opinion of the stakeholder should be added. She added that the NT recommendation should be implemented in the 2024 budget.

On point 8.3.3, Mr Ryder said it was important that the underspending on the Social Relief Distress (SRD) grant in the Second Adjustment Appropriation Bill be reflected. He made the addition that a review of the qualifying criteria for the SRD must be undertaken.

Ms Abraham asked whether Members would have to deal with the matter while it is being undertaken by the Select Committee on Appropriations.

Chairperson Maswanganyi clarified that the matter should be taken to Appropriations with the recommendations, and they would have the final resolution on the matter.

On point 8.3.4, Chairperson Carrim made the general point that it is constitutionally sound in some instances that information may be withheld. He further said that even though they requested information on behalf of a stakeholder, it does not mean that they support the policy or the stakeholder making the request.

Chairperson Maswanganyi said that the information requested at this point was not classified.

On point 8.4.1, Mr Ryder made the addition that the impact on the gross loan debt was a direct result of the transfer of Eskom’s debt on the national balance sheet.

Chairperson Maswanganyi asked whether Eskom was migrated under the Minister of Electricity or if it remained under the Department of Public Enterprises (DPE).

Chairperson Carrim said that Eskom’s operational duties remained with DPE. Matters of energy policy remained under the Minister of Mineral Resources and Energy.

Chairperson Maswanganyi hoped that the reconfiguration of the energy cluster would assist in resolving electricity issues, due to the large impact on the public.

Mr Ryder said that the President indicated that the responsibilities of the Minister of Electricity would be gazetted in the next few days.

On point 8.4.2, Mr Ryder said that any additional debt incursion by Eskom should be avoided until Parliament approves a comprehensive and workable restructuring plan.

Regarding point 8.4.5, he added that the Committee recommends a strong focus be put in place on removing South Africa from the FATF’s grey-list. He further added that there must be a less partisan stance on high-profile international conflicts, while promoting peaceful solutions.

Chairperson Maswanganyi added, on point 8.5.1, that NT should compile a comprehensive response plan before reporting back to the Committees on Finance. He appreciated Parliament passing legislation to prevent South Africa’s grey-listing.

Ms Abraham felt point 8.4.5 should remain as is, due to Mr Ryder’s use of the word ‘partisan’.

Mr Ryder said that he agreed with Ms Abraham regarding the subject matter and suggested that a more appropriate word could be used to include his point.

Ms Abraham disagreed and felt that the recommendation was sufficient in its original form.

Responding to Chairperson Maswanganyi’s addition on point 8.5.1, Chairperson Carrim said that some matters may be beyond the scope of NT. He felt that this would have to be addressed by the NA and NCOP.

He suggested that each Portfolio should be allocated responsibilities to ensure the implementation of the Zondo commission recommendations. He made the addition that NT should report to the Joint Committee and all relevant Committees on the matter.

Chairperson Maswanganyi clarified that he wanted NT to be accountable for the coordinating role through a consolidated report. He agreed that other Committees would have to be included to fully address these matters.

On point 8.5.3, Chairperson Carrim said that the Tax Institute indicated that government should not provide taxpayers with money to the extent they do. He disagreed and felt that it should only be reduced slightly. He added that South Africa is responsible for sharing certain funds with Southern African neighbouring countries.

Mr S F Du Toit (FF+, Northern Cape) disagreed with Chairperson Carrim. He stated that the Professor of the Tax Institute never shared these sentiments. He said that the emphasis was rather placed on needing the figures and calculations for the purposes of transparency. He supported the original point 8.5.3.

Ms Abraham proposed that NT provide a response to the Committee and FCSG within seven days.

Chairperson Carrim apologised for his misremembering and agreed with Ms Abraham. He furthered his point that the funds should not be revoked or substantially reduced.

Chairperson Maswanganyi asked for clarity regarding whether the information should be made available in the next seven days or in the budgetary review.

Chairperson Carrim said that the information should be provided in seven days and should regularly be made available in future budgetary reviews.

Mr W Wessels (FF+) agreed with Chairperson Carrim.

Chairperson Maswanganyi cautioned Members against overstepping their scope as Parliament. He stated that Members must not interfere with these funds at a multilateral level. He also asked when the Public Procurement Bill would be tabled before Parliament, as it was previously meant to be tabled in March 2023.

Ms Abraham said, on point 8.5.4, that the urgency of the matter should be reflected.

Chairperson Maswanganyi said the Minister must be held accountable for tabling the Bill. He said that a letter could be drafted to request that it be brought before Parliament on account of the delays.

Chairperson Carrim agreed, saying the Bill was meant to be tabled five years prior. He suggested that the Bill be brought before Parliament within six weeks. Should this not happen, he requested that the Minister addresses Members on the obstacles preventing the Bill from being tabled.

Chairperson Maswanganyi concurred that the Minister must be held accountable, as this was a matter of public interest.

Continuing on the point, Chairperson Carrim added that the Committee noted that the Public Procurement Bill would be tabled in March. The Committee expected this to be done, failing which the Committee would request to know what the obstacles are.

Ms Abraham felt the wording insinuated that the Minister was given an option not to bring the Bill to Parliament. She said that it must reflect that the Committee is owed the Bill in March.

Mr G Skosana (ANC) agreed that the wording should indicate that the Minister is the one who committed to table the Bill in March. He felt it was implied that the Minister would have to report to the Committee in April if he failed to fulfil his commitment.

Ms Abraham said, on point 8.5.5, that the wording is more instructive. She added that the relevant parliamentary committees responsible should exercise their rigorous oversight on the matter.

Chairperson Maswanganyi asked who is specifically responsible for acquiring state cars, regarding point 8.5.6.

Chairperson Carrim agreed that the phrasing was confusing. He made the correction that the Committee recommends that NT or the Presidency should reply within 14 days. He said the matter did not involve the Department of Trade Industry and Competition (DTIC).

Ms Abraham said the recommendation should be edited for brevity to ensure the significance is apparent. The point should emphasise the need for a plan or policy to ensure the changes are affected.

Chairperson Maswanganyi asked whether the DTIC had an arrangement whereby car manufacturing companies were incentivised to produce State cars in South Africa. He further asked whether there were conditions for this arrangement.

He suggested that the DTIC could appear before Members to address this concern.

Chairperson Carrim said that he felt this agreement did not exist. He agreed that the DTIC should be invited to speak on this concern. He also agreed that the point should be reduced to only indicate the main concerns.

He felt that the concerns on the point should be written as a letter for the Director-General (DG) of the presidency and acting DG of NT, who could consult with DTIC on the matter.

Chairperson Maswanganyi agreed with Chairperson Carrim. However, he felt that the letters could be sent out at a later point.

On point 8.5.7, he requested that the South African Revenue Service (SARS) and NT compile a comprehensive report on their engagement with the widows. This was because NT had done a lot of work to address the concerns of the widows on many occasions. This was in an effort to not demoralise government for the work already done.

Chairperson Carrim agreed with the addition.

Ms Abraham added that it must be reflected that officials have gone to different provinces to deal with the matter. This was as the Committee recommendation should be one that encapsulates all provinces.

Chairperson Carrim agreed with Ms Abraham. He made the addition that responses across provinces were affected by the organisation.

Dr D George (DA) felt that the widows who travelled to Parliament and were not met should be issued an apology.

Chairperson Carrim said it was not true that the widows did not understand that it was a virtual meeting. He said that the widows made their submission in Cape Town on the Monday before the public hearings. They were also afforded an hour to raise concerns, rather than their 10-minute allocation.

He urged that this particular issue not be conflated with Committee arrangements on whether or not to have physical or virtual public hearings. He cautioned against a public apology as it would cast aspersions on the staff who were not at fault.

Mr Ryder said that it was a regrettable misunderstanding, though not the fault of the Committee Secretariat. He encouraged Members to embrace a hybrid system to allow for a greater scope of public participation without incurring additional expenses.

He said that, following numerous meetings with Parliament, these widows were looking for a final response to ensure their concerns were heard. He felt that greater accommodation must be made for participants in public hearings. He also thought it was an appropriate response to issue an apology to the widows.

Chairperson Maswanganyi requested a report from NT and SARS detailing government engagement with the widows. He disagreed with the need for an apology, as it would be harsh on support staff working to address the matter.

Once again, he congratulated Mr Morolong on his appointment as Deputy Minister in the Presidency and Ms Peters, appointed Deputy Minister of Small Business.

Consideration and Adoption of the Report: Standing Committee on Finance

Chairperson Maswanganyi asked the Committee to move for the adoption of the 2023 Fiscal Framework and Revenue Proposals.

Mr George said that the DA reserved its position on the Report.

The Report was adopted with amendments by the NA.

Read: ATC230307: Report of the Standing Committee on Finance on the 2023 Fiscal Framework and Revenue Proposals, Dated 07 March 2023

Consideration and Adoption of the Report: Select Committee on Finance

Chairperson Carrim asked the Select Committee to move for the adoption of the Report.

Mr E Njadu (ANC, Western Cape) moved to adopt the Report.

Ms M Mamarengane (ANC, Limpopo) seconded the adoption.

Mr Ryder said that the DA reserved its position on the Report.

Mr M Moletsane (EFF, Free State) said the EFF also reserved their position.

The 2023 Fiscal Framework and Revenue Proposals was adopted by the Committee.

Read: ATC230307: Report of the Select Committee on Finance on the 2023 Fiscal Framework And Revenue Proposals, Dated 07 March 2023

The meeting was adjourned.