French Foreign Minister : briefing

Meeting report

FOREIGN AFFAIRS PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE
26 June 2003
FRENCH FOREIGN MINISTER: BRIEFING

Chairperson: Dr Z P Jordan

Document handed out:
French Foreign Minister's Speech to Parliament (Appendix)

SUMMARY
The French Foreign Minister briefed the Committee with regard to South African-French relations and the common goals of the two countries. He lauded South Africa for the leadership it was providing in Africa and for South Africa's firm commitment to multilateralism and international law.

MINUTES
The Chair stated that the Committee was honoured to have the French Foreign Minister, Mr D de Vellepin and the Deputy Speaker of the National Assembly in France as well as a distinguished delegation of members of the French Diplomatic core. He also welcomed the representatives from various EU embassies.

The French Foreign Minister's speech (see Appendix) focused on the following issues:
- the high level of co-operation between South Africa and France
- South Africa's pioneering role on the African continent
- France's willingness to support solutions for Africa
- the mutual view held by South Africa and France with regard to multilateral action and respect for international law.

Discussion
The Chair stated that members could see the similarities between the positions that South Africa had adopted and those that were articulated by the Foreign Minister.

Mr C Eglin (DA) stated that he was excited to meet the Foreign Minister as he was a key actor in the drama that unfolded in the security council over the Iraqi issue. He stated that the NEPAD agreement pledged an individual and collective commitment to peace and security, democracy and human rights, and good governance as pre-conditions for the development of Africa. He asked the Foreign Minister to what extent France considered these pre-conditions necessary to becoming involved in the partnership to develop Africa. Secondly, Mr Eglin asked to what extent the peer review mechanism was a critical part of South Africa achieving its objectives. Finally, Mr Eglin asked if the negative situation of a particular country in a region influenced the development of other countries within that region, in the view of France or other G8 nations.

The Foreign Minister answered that France had a positive, constructive, and pragmatic approach to NEPAD. He highlighted the need for a good process to face the variety of challenges facing different regions in Africa. This process would give good reasons for other countries to get involved with Africa. Furthermore, he was confident that the process would work to alleviate a situation in Africa, such as in the situation in Zimbabwe where the heads of state of South Africa, Malawi, and Nigeria came in to help alleviate the situation. France would help in the process, but not interfere.

If there was a problem with one country in a region, the countries within that region must try to solve the problem and show the way for other countries (such as France) to assist in finding a solution. The peer review system would assist in this regard.

Mr L Zita (ANC) asked if France's position was distinct from the US's with regard to the Roadmap to Middle East Peace. Secondly, he welcomed the support for NEPAD, but was hoping for something similar to the Marshall Plan in which first world countries opened their economies to NEPAD. Lastly, he asked if France would consider a policy change with regard to agricultural subsidies that would assist Africa.

The Foreign Minister agreed that the road map must be implemented through the unity of the international community. No single country could make peace in the Middle East. It would be in the interests of the United States to have everybody on board for this process.

With regard to agricultural subsidies, the Foreign Minister stated that the EU had received a lot of criticism on this issue. The EU was open more than any other western-world entity to the agriculture of the third world. During the Evian summit, the possibility of stopping the support and subsidies was brought forward by France. This needed to be a collective decision by all of the "important" countries of the world and it had to be progressive.

Imam G Solomon (ANC) asked about the challenge in striking a balance between combating international terrorism and protecting human rights. He asked if South Africa could learn from the French experience.

The Foreign Minister answered that the terrorists would try to divide the world, but the world community must remain unified. With regard to terrorism and human rights, the Foreign Minister answered that the most important thing was to stick to the values and ideas of mankind, freedom and principles. A country should never use the same principles as the terrorists because that country would not have truth and strength on its side.

Ms M N Magazi (ANC) asked how France defined the term "terrorism". In regard to the war in Iraq, what was France's view on weapons of mass destruction in Iraq?

With regard to the definition of terrorism, the Foreign Minister stated that it was one of the most difficult terms to define. He did not believe that there could be good terrorism and bad terrorism, as all terrorism that resulted in the death of innocent people was bad. But, of course, one must look at why terrorism was rampant in certain parts of the world. One of the most cruel situations in today's world occured when people were put in a situation where they were facing injustice and felt that they have no choice but to resort to violence.

Concerning the weapons of mass destruction, the international community saw a risk in Iraq. That was why inspections were decided upon in the Security Council. The fact that weapons had not been found, seemed to indicate that the inspections should have been given more of a chance.

Adv Z L Madasa (ACDP) stated that while France was committed to multilateralism, he was not sure if France was with South Africa in regards to economic development. France's support towards Africa should be in terms of economic development. He wanted to hear if France was prepared to do more.

This question was not answered due to time constraints.

Ms F Mahomed (ANC) asked about dialogue within international financial institutions like the World Bank and the WTO, in terms of development in the third world. She also asked how seriously the major powers take conflict resolution in the developing world. Finally, she asked what the role of China and India would be with regard to the future balance of power in the world.

This question was not answered due to time constraints.

The Chair explained that the Committee ran out of time because the Foreign Minister had another appointment. He thanked the Foreign Minister for visiting and engaging with the Committee.

The meeting was adjourned.

Appendix
French Foreign Minister's Speech to Parliament
CapeTown 26 June-3 pm
The Speaker,
Members of Parliament,

It is a great pleasure for me to be here with you today. I have long wanted to come here to meet you and to feel for myself the true substance of your nation, to gain insight Into the situation as it really is. So I cherish this opportunity to visit your great country today.

In the first place, I want to salute South Africa's pioneering role on the African continent.

Under the resolute leadership of President Mbeki, your country is making manifest the full dimension of this "African Renaissance" so dear to his heart.

First of all at the head of the African Union, shortly about to complete a well-filled first year of existence.

Next, through the impetus given to NEPAD, of which it is a founder, and which the Evian Summit has designated a priority.

Finally, through its resolute involvement in most of the conflicts that still afflict your continent.

But, beyond these crucial issues, which are of concern to the continent as a whole, your country is also a key partner in the emerging dialogue around the major contemporary issues1 e.g. the war in Iraq, the Middle East conflict, the fight against terrorism and proliferation, and the means to ensure a equitable1 sustainable, and shared.

On all these major issues, we have regularly exchanged views, our concerns and our objectives in the course of past year.

We have worked consistently with Ms Dlamini-Zuma to strengthen relations between our two countries.

Your President has visited France three times already: in January, on the occasion of the Paris conference in the wake of the inter-Ivorian agreements; in February1 for the Africa-France Summit; and in May, for the enlarged G8 Summit dialogue. We await him with pleasure, finally, for a State visit on 17-19 November.

On African soil, for the first time, South African and
French troops are operating side by side in Operation
Artemis This operation symbolises the marriage of South
Africa's negotiating efforts with the belligerents and French
support for the mediation thus put in hand

I also want to gauge the true situation in a country experiencing a series of complex developments with vital implications for the continent as a whole.

Nearly 10 years after the post-apartheid transition I want to grasp the full import of the emergence of an innovative society model and the role your country now plays as a source of inspiration for the continent of Africa and further afield.

That is the purpose of the various meetings scheduled during the course of my visit.

First, with your intellectuals and artists, in a country long distinguished by the vigour its thinkers and its artistic and literary output. Perhaps more than elsewhere, due to its distinctive history, the voices of artists such as Johnny Clegg and Miriam Makeba, and writers such as Coetzee, Breyten Breytenbach, Andre Brink and Nadine Gordimer, were seen as an expression of your country's struggle for freedom;

Then, with the Cape's religious leaders (Christian, Muslim and Jewish), who have played such a vital role in the development of South African society before, during and after the democratic transition. Today they are the guarantors of the unity of this "Rainbow Nation" which is what makes South Africa a model like no other;

And, finally, with the embody the economic future global growth is clouded by the North and South alike.

l shall be visiting a township in Johannesburg in search of deeper insight into the challenges South African society has to overcome, with the 'support of the international community.

Mr Speaker, Members of Parliament, I want to salute here, in the name of France, the outstanding role played by South Africa and its Parliament - you, who are the embodiment of:
- democracy in Africa,
- the peaceful transition which you in your wisdom have set in motion and implemented,
- and a model of coexistence between communities, which you have successfully
preserved.

In truth, your country is proof that the image of a continent ~o often portrayed as beset with chaos and failure is a travesty of the truth

Today Angola is at peace once more. The Great ~ region is accomplishing essential steps that could put it O[I road to a political settlement. In Sudan, agreement no longer seems beyond reach. Madagascar is about to resume its place in the African Union, while in the Ivory Coast the Marcoussis Accords point the way to a new model for crisis resolution.

Most of all, Africa is today the first to devise answers to the substantial challenges facing it.

The challenge of globalisation to begin with; more than for any other continent, this represents an opportunity to be grasped, and a source of concern as well. For while Africa needs to acquire the various kinds of know-how essential to participation in the global economy, it must be careful not to lose its soul in the process.


Then comes the challenge of democracy. Africa has undergone a remarkable change in the space of a few years. More and more countries are experiencing a peaceful hand-over of power in accordance with the rule of law, But vigilance is called for everywhere.

Lastly, there is the challenge of development. The road ahead is strewn with no end of obstacles, from the drama of deep poverty which continues to ravage whole countries, to the great pandemics undermining already fragile civil societies, and inadequate access to water.

Unlike some of its Northern partners, France shuns the temptation to turn its back on the world, which would lead th4 western world into a dead end From the Ivory Coast to Ituri France stands ready to answer the call, convinced that Africa embodies the promise of a future both more humane and more fraternal, even as societies are fragmenting and conflicts are breaking out all around us.

None of these challenges can be overcome in a state of conflict. Together, we must make it our priority, through an unprecedented effort, to help those regions in crisis to find their way back to the path of peace. Dialogue alone can wear down antagonism; only through negotiation can we put an end to conflict. Where division rules, we must seek solutions1 not take sides. We must act to defend values and not to guarantee entrenched interests. Better than any other, your country, so long torn apart, embodies the wisdom of this approach.

Three clear principles guide France's involvement today, namely:

Principle number one: the legitimacy of power. The road to democracy remains strewn with obstacles, and merely replacing political leaders by no means guarantees a solution.

Legitimacy depends also on the manner in which power is exercised. The ballot box may confer a mandate, but it does not confer immunity. While there is no single model for democracy, freedom and human dignity are indispensable and imperative elements of it.

Principle number two: respect for national sovereignty and territorial integrity. The intangibility of frontiers remains an absolute imperative. A re-drawing of national boundaries would run the risk of triggering further disintegration.

But there is one reality we must bear in mind, which is that no conflict affecting one State can be settled independently of its neighbours. The Congo crisis will not be settled in the absence of Rwanda, Uganda and Burundi, nor without the determined and tireless action of South Africa which has shouldered responsibility for the smooth progress of the current process.

Which is why we ought to encourage efforts at regional integration, for these alone can strengthen the ties of solidarity ..and overcome tensions, calmly and enduringly.

Principle number three: systematic support for African mediation efforts For the solutions to African problems can and must be African. And France has no intention of intervening directly, or in isolation, in order to impose a solution from outside.

France has expressed this determination concretely:

- first through resolute military involvement, with the 4,000 men of "Operation Licorne" in the Ivory Coast, the 300 present in Bangui, and the 1,500 sent to secure Bunia. Or again, through the training, equipping and financing of regional military forces. In all instances, French military intervention is designed to achieve the same objectives namely to avoid civil war and humanitarian disasters and to consolidate a political process of reconciliation, acting within a regional or multilateral framework.

- Our determination is also manifest in our concern to mobilise the international community. We organised a round table of donors for Madagascar in Paris, last July. For the Ivory Coast, we have referred the case to the Security Council and the multinational donors. In the Central African Republic; we are seeking to restore dialogue with the International Financial Institutions. in the Congo, in addition to immediate military intervention, diplomacy too is playing its part. In each case, our role consists in activating dialogue with our African and western partners, exploiting their complementary features in the service of a collective and regional approach. Because of our deep attachment to your continent, we stand permanently ready to sound the alert, build awareness and act as a catalyst for the involvement of others concerned.

Which is why we want to work closely with the Chair of the African Union, and with the chairs of the regional organisations. When I leave you I shall be heading for Ghana, the President in Office of ECOWAS.

Looking beyond the continent of Africa, we have real convergences of views on the vital issues that concern us today, including our points of convergence on the Iraqi question, which indeed led to the postponement of this visit to South Africa several times.

Throughout the Iraqi crisis, France upheld the principle of a political solution and respect for international law. It welcomed South Africa's efforts to persuade Iraq to respect the Security Council resolutions and to secure adoption by the African Heads of State of a declaration in support of our common position. Our policies were not directed against any particular country. They were dictated, rather, by a certain conception of collective responsibility and world view7 in which consensus and respect for the law alone can confer the necessary legitimacy on force. But now it is time to look to the future.

Iraq is in the throes of considerable upheaval. From the outset of hostilities, we strove to bring humanitarian aid to the Iraqi people, and we welcomed the fall of Saddam Hussein. And today we welcome the fact that the international community is once again united for the reconstruction of Iraq.

The Security Council adopted Resolution 1483 unanimously after negotiations conducted in a constructive spirit on all sides. At the Evian Summit, which South Africa attended in the framework of the Enlarged Dialogue the members of the C8 welcomed the adoption of this resolution and reaffirmed that their common goal was a fully sovereign stable and democratic Iraq, at peace with its neighbours and set on the road to progress.

The resolution of the crisis in Iraq revealed the importance of preserving the multilateral system.

France shares your vision of multilateral action. another of my reasons for visiting a country that, with special model embracing 11 national languages, Canada, Senegal and France, working to promote diversity in the world.

No power in the world today can single-handedly shoulder responsibility for the equilibrium and stability of the world. Shared responsibility is the keystone of multilateralism and is a necessity from every point of view.
- collective decision-making alone gives power the legitimacy it needs in order to act
effectively;
- only through dialogue between cultures can the diversity of approaches and viewpoints find
expression, and thus avoid ignorance and fear of others;
- solidarity, and in particular between countries of the North and those of the South (in wake
of the Durban and Johannesburg summits), is only viable response to the underlying factors
of disorder and instability, i.e. extreme poverty, famine epidemics.

For France, the principle of collective responsibility ought therefore to lie at the heart of the international system. Which is why we give our support and backing to the work of the United Nations, the embodiment of this principle.

The United Nations is the cornerstone of the international order. Since 1945, the practice of the United Nations, and in particular that of the Security Council, has shown that strict compliance with the Charter was perfectly consistent with the need to adopt the UN to the changing face of international relations and in particular to new threats.

France is well aware that the United Nations should continue to reform if it is to play its role to the full.

For many years, we have sought to make the Security Council more representative by broadening both categories of member1 both permanent and non-permanent, for the benefit of both developed and developing countries.

In the same spirit, we have proposed to the United Nations General Assembly the creation of an Economic and Social Security Council, together with a World Environment Organisation.

That gives some idea of the scale of the projects and ideas France wants to broach with South Africa, in Africa and beyond

Thank you