Chairperson, just on a point of order. I would like to know if parties are not getting the opportunities to make declarations.
If there is anyone who wants to make a declaration, I guess we will have to ... Nyambi?
It is a procedural matter so that when we go on we must not experience problems. We have in terms of the rules to make sure that when a member has called for a division, at lease we have that minimum of four supporting because we will have one member that will broke down plenary and call a division and get the four as a support. So before we can have the bells we were supposed to get the four that are supporting the division that has been called.
Obviously the number is more than four. Having done that, can we then move over and have the declaration being made?
Chairperson, it appears like we have a problem with the microphones. Okay, they are on now. Shall I make the declaration from the podium or from here?
You can make it from where you are hon member to save time.
I think everybody is in agreement that we save time today.
Chairperson, Members of the House, fellow South Africans, on the 15th of February 2018, President Cyril Ramaphosa was inaugurated as the President of the Republic of South Africa.
The DA on that day had the good grace to congratulate the new president and wish him well in his endeavours, even though he had been Leader of Government Business for the past four ruinous years.
I had the honour to congratulate the President personally on the floor of the National Assembly after the proceedings. As I shook his hand, I also assured him that, as a then member of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, SCOPA that I would hold him and his government to account. He encouraged me to do nothing less.
Many in South Africa were emboldened by the new dawn, widely known as Ramaphoria. Since then, the President has been involved in internal battles with Luthuli House over financial and constitutional policy. He has admitted, at the very least, that he provided incorrect information to Parliament which has led to a damning condemnation from the Public Protector.
And this past weekend he was forced to challenge his National Executive Committee, NEC, to remove him at the next ANC National General Council, NGC, if they didn't like his leadership.
So before supporting any Budget, the essential question is: Who is running the Budget? Who is in charge? Is it the Secretary-General and Luthuli House? Or is it the President and the Union Buildings? Or is the canny Deputy President just biding his time as the ANC Titans clash, ready to step forward as the compromise candidate?
President Ramaphosa is fond of quoting Teddy Roosevelt's "The Man in the Arena" as a dismissive statement to those outside of government.
The President must be reminded today that the DA is in the arena. Our faces are marred by dust and sweat and blood. We do strive valiantly. We do dare greatly. And we shall know victory. And the ANC will know defeat. Siyabangena!! [Applause.]
We will now proceed. Yes, is that a point of order, hon member?
No, it is a declaration on this.
Okay.
Okay. Chairperson, firstly, I want to start by saying that there is no amount of hypocrisy that will make the people of South Africa to understand what the DA stands for.
Allow me to rise on behalf of the ANC on the declaration of our undivided support for the Vote of the Presidency. This is the first Vote for the sixth administration after the renewal of the democratic mandate of the ANC by the people of South Africa. we welcome this Vote especially against the backdrop of the reconfigured national executive with the enhanced capacity to co- ordinate and monitor the implementation of strategic priorities for the current Medium-Term Strategic Framework.
Amongst key voices of our people during the election campaign were call for the intensification for government efforts against crime and corruption and addressing the triple challenges of joblessness, poverty and inequality. This Vote gives articulation to the capacity of the Presidency as a critical centre of policy planning implementation monitoring and evaluation.
The reinvigoration and reanimation of the policy planning coordination and implementation in the Presidency is amongst the critical steps to build and strengthen capacity of the democratic developmental and capable state in line with the National Development Plan. Of course the DA advocates for a weaker state where market will dictate. It is our considered view as the ANC that any attempt to reject this Vote is the rejection of democratic mandate to fight crime and corruption address triple challenges unemployment, poverty and inequality. You shouldn't scavenge of the lives of our people. Our people need change and now.
Hon Rayi?
Chairperson, I would like to propose that we should divide the House, those that will be voting against must go that side and those for on the other side. And also propose that we have two people that will be counting to assist the table.
Can we do as proposed. Traditionally this how voting has happened in the NCOP. Can we do so?
On a point of order.
Yes.
Chairperson, I refer you to Rule 65(1) which states that after a question has been put and the presiding officer has indicated whether the Ayes and Noes have it, any member may demand the division and then it continues to indicate what the procedure is in Rule 66. in another words the division can only happen after the vote has take place otherwise what are you dividing on. So, therefore I would suggest that we vote and then a division be called and then we divide. Thank you.
I think that throws the House somewhat into confusion. The call for division is the call to vote as I understand it broadly and I therefore without any waste of time call on members to divide the House in terms of the sitting arrangement so that we can proceed with the question of manual voting. Please sit down, hon members.
What is the point of order?
This House can't unilaterally decide to change the Rules of this House as they please. I have quoted to you from the Rules of the House what the procedure is and would request to you to
please follow the Rules of the House as opposed to a hon member from the Eastern Cape suggestion. The Rules of the House are very clear. We vote then a division is called and then we divide in terms of Rule 66.
Chair, on a point of order.
what is the point of order, hon Labuschagne?
Chairperson, I want to support what hon Michalakis said because the Rule 65(1) makes provision for a vote before a declaration. In the first place the order of this session started wrongly. I didn't interrupt because the order number one is fist Votes on the order paper. Order number two is the report on the Bill. We started with order number two and we didn't reject or accept the report. I left it; because of the chaos we started with I stood up and ask for a division. As the Chairperson you should rule but it is right in this House. So, the Rules are that we first vote and then we divide. So we first have to call for the people we agree or support the vote then for those who don't support the vote then count those who are abstaining and then we call for a division and then we continue. Thank you.
Yes, hon member.
Sorry about that chairperson, it seems the microphones are not working as they should. You will remember in the National Assembly at least. No, no, can I speak, please. It is my right to speak. I am not going to count out anybody.
Please proceed.
Nobody. It is my right to speak. Now, here it is. As I understand it the words being used are causing the confusion but the process and you can't have two completely separate set of Rules for two completely different analyses in some substantial things. As I understand it, it is the use of words that is causing the confusion. As I understand it and I am not familiar enough for the NCOP. I hope is for those who will come in. it is this that you actually ask for what we call it Ayes and Noes and then what happens is by verbal indication you have a sense of where people are and then you say as I understand it those who want a division the Bells will ring for so many minutes or whatever but the difficulty with mu colleague there and I understand it. It is that he is using the word called vote. The vote literally occurs I hope advocate Phindela is
listening when you press the button or we vote in this case physically. Thank you.
Hon members, we will now proceed and the way we are going to proceed is to find out and gauge whether members support the Vote broadly. Can we find out those in favour? Those against! Those abstaining! I guess those who support the Vote are seem to be in the majority but that being the case it seem ... Yes, hon member.
The point of order is that you can't guess.
Yes.
You must know that the Noes have it.
So the EFF is calling for a division?
But you are missing a point.
Okay, I am listening.
We are saying you guess that the Ayes have it but I am saying you can't guess.
Yes.
You must know.
Okay.
So I am telling you the Noes have it. Thank you.
Is the DA calling for ... Yes. The DA?
Chairperson, clearly according to what I heard the Noes have it, therefore I will call for a division in terms of Rule 65 and 66. Thank you.
Therefore hon members that being the case, we will move to the actual voting and the bells will ring for a minute.
Division demanded.
The Council divided: