I would like to continue and take another ruling, hon Speaker. It is that on 16 February 2016, during the state of the nation debate, the hon Filtane rose on a point of order and said, and I quote him:
Chairperson, my point of order is that the statement that the hon Minister made is derogatory about my leader. You don't talk like that about Holomisa! [Laughter.]
Order, members, order! I indicated that I will check the Hansard transcript and revert back to the House. The Minister of Human Settlements, hon Sisulu, is recorded as having said, and I quote:
Thank you very much to hon Holomisa for the suggestion of an economic indaba resembling that of Convention for a Democratic South Africa, Codesa. The rest of hon Holomisa's rumblings are not worth mentioning here right now.
The hon Filtane, did not specify which part of the speech by the hon Minister of Human Settlements was derogatory. After careful reading of the Minister's remarks, I could only assume that the hon Filtane should be referring to the words, "Rumblings". Now the word 'rumblings' hon members, is defined as: To talk or to write in a discursive or aimless way. [Laughter.]
Order, members! The guiding principles as to whether the words used in a debate are out of order are: The motive attributed to the member accused of using them; and whether something dishonourable is being attributed to another member. Words or phrases used in a debate but which do not in any way impend on the honour of a member will not be ruled out of order.
Therefore, my ruling in this point of order, raised by the hon Filtane, is that it cannot be upheld. I thank you, Speaker. [Applause.]
I recognise the hon Kwankwa!
Speaker, thank you very much and I am sorry for wasting your time. I had raised my hand before the President took to the podium but when I realised that you did not see me or pick up my hand, I decided to put it down.
Mine was to really request that I make an appeal to the House about precisely a matter that concerns us greatly as a party concerning what happened during the state of the nation debate. Following reviews of the young people on the state of the nation debate on the platforms and channels that they use, one discovered that they could remember the insults and not the substance of our inputs here in the House.
My concern, and our concern as a party, is that we are inculcating a culture of intolerance which at some point is going to lead to political instability. We have to exercise better leadership! We have to try and change our ways of behaving in the House because we have clearly taken a wrong turn.
My words, ladies and gentlemen, are not in judgement of your actions; they serve just as a mere caution! We have to change course before it is too late because we all have the responsibility to build a South Africa in which all of us look forward to - the sunrise of our tomorrow! I thank you. [Applause.]
Thank you very much, hon Kwankwa. In particular, I appreciate the fact that you yourself are a young person - but a young person that has taken responsibility and is prepared to stick his neck out for South Africa. Hon members, the Joint Sitting ... [Interjections.]
Speaker, Speaker, Speaker! Madame Speaker, to your left!
Who is calling? [Interjections.] Yes, hon Natasha Mazzone!
Thank you, Madame Speaker. I am sorry to interrupt you as you were about to close the sitting. I think it has been an oversight and I wish to remind you of a meeting that hon Maimane and myself had with you yesterday in your offices, in which we discussed a ruling that was made in the House.
There was a set of circumstances that then followed our discussion. However, one of the agreements made between ourselves, and also with the National Assembly Table, was that a ruling will be made today regarding utterances that were made in the House yesterday. [Interjections.]
Hon Speaker and the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, I would just like to know why we aren't getting the rulings as we discussed yesterday, please.
Thank you very much for reminding us of that meeting. I dare say, in fact, we are proud to report that while there was a bit of pandemonium in the House, there was a very constructive interaction between the Leader of the Opposition and hon Natasha Mazzone who just rose, which found a constructive resolution to a specific area of the issue that had arisen.
However, in discussing the matters that we had thought that we would be able to rule on today, we found that it was necessary to still look in particular at the Hansard records on an element that relates to the Deputy Minister on the side of the ruling party. We are still looking into those issue and we would like to have more time before we can come back with a ruling on that.
It is only that we in fact forgot. We should have raised it when we were making one of the rulings. So, those issues are not forgotten; we are coming back on them. Thank you very much hon members ... [Interjections.]
Madame Speaker! Madame Speaker
Madame Speaker! Madame Speaker!
Hon Sisulu!
Madame Speaker, I rose on a point of order two days ago. I was assured by the Deputy Speaker that he would look at Hansard and come back before the end of this session with an outcome of the complaint to make a ruling. I await that ruling before we rise or else get an explanation as to why we do not have a ruling as yet, please!
You will get it, hon Sisulu. We did discuss that matter and another ruling from the Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP. We decided that those ruling will be dealt with still but not before the end of this particular sitting. Hon Waters!
Madame Speaker, given the agreement that was made in your office, one would have expected some of form of communication with the hon Leader of the Opposition in this regard that: Firstly, you were not going to actually make a ruling; and secondly, what this then suggests going into the future for any Joint Sitting is that our freedom of speech in this Chamber is severely curtailed.
We cannot use words such as 'factions' in a debate anymore. [Interjections.] I mean, we have more freedom of speech outside than we do inside the Chamber. This is a Chamber where we were supposed to be able to express ourselves freely ... [Interjections.] ... and be protected! I would suggest that we need a ruling sooner rather than later - concerning the ruling made by the hon Tau, The Deputy Speaker of the NCOP, about 'factions' and about 'rubbish' - on whether or not we can use those words in this Chamber. [Interjections.] It is a matter of urgency, Madame Speaker!
Hon Waters, we appreciate your input and we agree with you that it is very important and we should actually make those rulings as soon as possible. As we have said, we apologise and we promise that we will come back to the House as soon as is possible.
