Order, hon members!
You know, Floyd and Julius, I can engage you outside. [Laughter.]
Will you refer to the hon members as hon members, please, hon Tobias?
I apologise, House Chair. It is the generation of Peter Mokaba, Rapu Molekane and Kgaogelo Lekgoro that understood the fact that for the National Democratic Revolution, NDR, to arrive at its logical conclusion, it had the responsibility to develop the youth. The responsibility to bring the NDR to its logical conclusion cannot exchange hands. I repeat, the responsibility to bring the national democratic revolution to its logical conclusion cannot exchange hands. It is only the party of the revolution that carries the mandate. [Interjections.]
The ANC therefore remains the relevant party in setting the national agenda. The ANC will continue to mobilise all progressive forces, especially the youth, and rally them behind the vision of building a nonracial, nonsexist, democratic, united and prosperous society. The youth of today should take lessons from the youth of yesterday, who implemented the task of the national liberation movement with discipline, agility and the ability to learn from their predecessors. Therefore, it would be suicidal for any revolutionary to lack clarity of thought in understanding the basics of any revolution.
The ANC ushered in a developmental state post-1994. By definition the developmental state is a progressive tool to implement the NDR, and thus has a positive impact on the lives of ordinary citizens. It therefore develops the capacity to achieve the strategic goals of bettering the lives of the people. It also changes the quality of life of the masses and is biased towards the motive forces of our struggle. Through its progressive social programmes, it mobilises social forces and all structures of society by transforming society, and it achieves this through a competent patriotic Public Service with high levels of education and raised productivity levels. This is reflected by the high intake of youth in its employ, and it also translates into economic beneficiation.
Therefore, the youth of this country remain an essential component of a progressive motive force that our government continues to mobilise through guidance and development, but above all, the youth themselves must not sit in a corner and wait for government to intervene in their plight. The youth of Nelson Mandela's time took it upon themselves to change their lives around through sacrifice and selflessness.
The developmental state gave itself the role to transform society by playing an active role in the development of our people. Government not only drafted regulations, but has also committed huge amounts in funding for training and financing huge infrastructure development projects and incentives through the micro-financing of small business. Therefore, greater participation of youth in the economy will yield good results, and we need the commitment of the youth to serve the South African masses. Business should also commit itself to supporting government in economic development to accelerate movement towards a people-centred social system.
It is through the role played by the youth that the South African government can relate to the market forces. Currently, the developmental state is building a professional and committed cadre. I want to pause there to reflect on what someone said: "buy investors". How on earth can you say that a developmental state that has injected so much money in social development can be equated to a market-orientated state? It is a fallacy. [Interjections.] A poor capitalist state would not provide the poor with social grants, free housing, free education until matric level, free education through NSFAS and bursaries; that's the reality that we do not want to accept. [Applause.]
Of course, we understand you are playing to the gallery, and that you aspire to be on this side of the House one day. [Interjections.] That is not going to be possible for the coming two or three decades. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members!
So you should understand that as long as you don't bring fundamental theoretical change in terms of policy shift away from what the ANC stands for, there is nothing new that you are bringing to the table. [Applause.]
We are accelerating economic freedom; we are a more responsive government; our economy is labour-absorbing; we are deracialising the economy; we are pursuing a 5% economic growth rate; we have invested in an infrastructure development programme, and we are also stabilising the mining sector. We have just won the deal. Now applaud us! [Applause.] It was through government intervention, through Minister Ngoako Ramatlhodi, that today the five-month long platinum belt strike has come to an end. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Hon House Chair, you know, comrades, we should not waste time with semantics. No one disagrees with the fact that, in terms of revenue allocation, education is a priority in South Africa. But, where we disagree is on the question whether we are getting returns on investment. As soon as we do not agree on that ...
... siza kuba nengxaki kuba uza kufumanisa ukuba... [... we are going to have a problem because you will find that ...]
... we are only going to regurgitate our manifesto, without addressing the problem. The fact of the matter is ...
... asifumani sivuno kutyalo-mali kwaye sisemsileni kwizifundo zezibalo nezenzululwazi kwilizwekazi i-Afrika. [... we do not get any returns on our investment and we are far behind in mathematics and science subjects throughout the African continent.]
We cannot celebrate that. That is a fact.
June 16 1976 signifies the contribution of the youth in the fight for the self-evident right to determine our own destiny. The youth of 1976 fought bravely to disentangle ourselves from the apartheid regime's oppressive entanglements. We owe this generation a big debt of gratitude for the freedom we are now enjoying.
Fellow compatriots, in remembering the heroism of the youth of 1976, we should first consider the appropriateness of the fiery and dramatic start to the fifth democratic Parliament last week, where pelting each other with a litany of expletives seemed to take the place of a meaningful discourse and the economic advancement of our people.
If we allow mud-slinging and name-calling to become a permanent interlude, instead of a meaningful discourse, we run the risk of going down as the generation of leaders that derives a perverse pleasure from behaving in ways that constitute a perversion of the true meaning of democracy - the same democracy for which the generation of 1976 fought.
We should therefore get all hands on deck to come up with proposals that ensure the building of a truly better life for all, especially the youth. We should focus on the youth, because 20 years into our democracy, the youth face a kaleidoscope of new challenges such as poverty, unemployment, and alcohol and drug abuse.
The UDM believes that advancing youth development should not only be to reduce the red tape that stifles youth entrepreneurship and introduces targeted incentives that are critical in job creation for youth, but youth development finance institutions should also be compelled to help young entrepreneurs to meet their conditions for finance agreements. This is the only way to close the big gap between loan approval and loan disbursement rates for youth.
On skills development, we believe that government should work with the private sector and forge a closer working relationship with tertiary institutions to improve both the work-readiness of graduates and the quality of internship programmes. It is futile to place thousands of young people in internships around the country if all they do is to make photocopies and fax documents for the duration of their internships.
As a nation, if we fail to prioritise youth development and empowerment, we will continue to carry the heavy load that is filled with the detritus of an unhappy youth. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Voorsitter, die jeug van Suid-Afrika, insluitend di op die kontinent van Afrika, is deel van 'n geskiedkundige demografiese dividend wat Afrika, insluitend Suid-Afrika, f 'n geweldige ekonomiese hupstoot kan gee, f 'n geweldige faktor in die destabilisering van state, insluitend Suid-Afrika, kan wees. Europa, die VSA, asook in 'n mate nou China, kon di demografiese dividend effektief vir die skep van enorme ekonomiese groei en ontwikkeling tot voordeel van al hul burgers aanwend. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Adv A D ALBERTS: Chairperson, the youth of South Africa, including those on the continent of Africa, are part of an historic demographic dividend which can either give Africa, including South Africa, a powerful economic kick start or be an enormous factor in destabilising states, including South Africa. Europe, the USA, as well as to a degree now China, were able to utilise this demographic dividend effectively for the creation of enormous economic growth and development to the advantage of all their citizens.]
South Africa is struggling effectively to use its demographic dividend arising from the youth. Instead of super-economic growth, we are dealing with the following statistics: As much as 50% of employable persons under the age of 25 are unemployed - the under 25's constitute 30% of the total number of unemployed persons; 60% of school-leavers left without obtaining their matric; the average time spent looking for a job equals 806 days; and young people are competing in a pool of 6,5 million job seekers.
This struggle means that South Africa can in the foreseeable future face significant unrest stemming from frustrated youth. The answers are obvious. We need economic growth that creates jobs fast and sustainably. However, the stated statistics have an underlying reality of cause and effect that can be found in government policies that, after 20 years of democracy, simply do not work.
Die regering se beleid skiet in die volgende areas ver te kort. Eerstens, basiese onderwys is so swak dat diegene wat uit daardie stelsel kom, veral arm swart jong mense, beskou word as onaanstelbaar, behalwe as ongeskoolde arbeid. Dit is 'n nasionale skande en mens kan net wonder of die regering opsetlik die massas ongeskool wil hou ten einde hulle makliker te beheer. Die eerste stappe in die regstel hiervan is die instel van moedertaalonderrig, meer klem op Wiskunde en Wetenskap en die daarstel van hor slaagstandaarde. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[The government's policy falls far short in the following areas. Firstly, basic education is so poor that those emerging from that system, especially poor black youths, are regarded as unemployable, except as unskilled labour. This is a national disgrace, and one can only wonder whether the government wants to keep the masses untrained so that it will be easier to keep them under control. The first steps in correcting this are to institute mother tongue education, to place more emphasis on mathematics and science and to introduce higher pass standards.]
Secondly, affirmative action and broad-based black economic empowerment, BBBEE, have become instruments that for the most part empower ANC cadres only. These instruments do not allow for growth, but merely redistribute the existing wealth. They merely replace the previous extractive regime with another one that is based on race.
The last time I checked, there was a difference between the mathematical functions of division and multiplication. Instead, the solution in unlocking wealth can start with government handing state-owned land to the poor, whether black or white.
Die hantering van die beleidsprobleme sal ekonomiese ontwikkeling moontlik maak deur middel van die jeug as demografiese dividend. Die vraag is egter of die regering die korrekte beleidsopsies gaan volg, wat bewese is en wat groei in 'n land soos Suid-Korea verseker het, of di wat na hel op aarde lei, soos in Noord-Korea. Die keuse is in u hande. Dankie, Voorsitter. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Tackling the policy problems will make economic development possible, by way of the youth as a demographic dividend. But the question is whether the government will follow the correct policy options, which have been proven and which have guaranteed growth in a country such as South Korea, or those which will lead to hell on earth, such as in North Korea. The choice lies in your hands. Thank you, Chairperson.]
Hon Chairperson, every year around 16 June, the youth of South Africa are reminded of the heroic efforts of the young people of 1976 who stood their ground against the apartheid regime and against the efforts of the government to dehumanise them by forcing them to learn in a language that was not their own.
The youth of today still battle with the government, but it is a different battle. The youth are fighting against unemployment, illiteracy, poor education, HIV and Aids.
The 20 years of democracy find the youth of South Africa still fighting for their place in the economy of the country. They find a youth that is unable to create wealth, a youth that is living in debt. It finds a youth that is still fighting to get a decent education. The fight against the oppression of a foreign language is now replaced by the fight against an indifference to education.
The 20 years of democracy find young women who are still dependent on the state for survival, who have very few choices and little control over their future, their lives, their careers or even their own bodies. Violence against women and children is greater than it has ever been.
The 20 years into democracy has found an entire generation without hope. The young people are daily faced with poor nutrition, poor living standards, poor teaching, few opportunities and little encouragement. This has created a poverty trap.
After 20 years of democracy, we still have serious deficits in our education. An inadequate number of learners take up mathematics. Most school-leavers lack competency in reading, comprehending and writing. Technical education is also inadequate. Those who have mathematics, strong writing capabilities and the right technical skills are ready to contribute to the economy. Unfortunately, skills demanded in the workplace are the very skills that continue to be seriously in short supply.
Today, as we debate this most important topic, we must accept that the quality of the education our children get is satisfactory to those who will be seeking to employ them... Thank you. [Time expired.]
Hon members, the next speaker is the hon Dirks, who will be delivering his maiden speech. [Applause.]
Hon House Chair, hon members and members of the public, good afternoon. On 7 May this year, the youth of this country went out in their hundreds of thousands to vote for the ANC to continue to deliver services to them. They renewed our mandate to continue improving their lives in this country.
This ANC democratic government has committed itself to transforming the post-schooling system, including the inherited apartheid social and economic structure, in order to bring about a new social order. We as the ANC have a working plan in place to move the youth and people in general of this country forward. We have therefore committed ourselves to building a comprehensive system that integrates universities, further education and training, FET, colleges, sector education and training authorities, Setas, the National Skills Fund and public adult learning centres.
The Freedom Charter, which is the blueprint for the democratic revolutionary forces, calls for the doors of learning, culture and training to be opened to all. Immediately after the 1994 democratic breakthrough, we were faced with the mammoth task of radically opening those doors according to the mandate that was given to us by the people. The ANC government had to do that knowing very well that education and training is a key and vital component of national unity, nation-building, reconciliation, social cohesion and, more importantly, youth development.
Education and training is a critical cornerstone of the National Democratic Revolution. As a result the President, in his state of the nation address, raised the issue of education and the government's plans for education. He said that Grade 12 learners who gained entrance to university would increase from 172 O00 in 2013 to 250 O00 in 2019. [Interjections.] He raised the issue of 12 new education and training colleges that are to be built. We have opened a new medical school campus at the University of Limpopo and we have also built new universities in the provinces of Mpumalanga and the Northern Cape. [Interjections.] These are the issues that the President raised in his state of the nation address in tackling the issues of education.
The hon member of the IFP came here to the podium and asked us what good story we have to tell. [Interjections.] The hon member of the IFP forgets that from 1995 they ran the KwaZulu-Natal government. He forgets that from 1994 till 2004 they ran KwaZulu-Natal into the ground and in the process they reduced themselves to a regional party based in Ngoma. [Interjections.] We as the ANC are offering the youth of this country quality education. [Interjections.]
Then you find the hon leader of the EFF - I see the DA has also jumped onto the bandwagon - who says that the two universities are high schools. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members!
The hon leader of the EFF says that the two universities that the ANC built are high schools. I think that statement that the hon member of the EFF ... [Interjections.]
Order, hon members!
... made in this House is an insult to every young person who will walk through the gates of those universities to obtain their degrees. [Applause.] We have a plan. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members!
What does the hon leader of the EFF offer the young people of this country? What does the hon member of the EFF offer the young people of this country? He offers them snake oil. The hon leader of the EFF is a typical snake oil salesman. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Order, hon members!
As we celebrate all these progressive strides that the ANC government has made in youth development, we cannot help but signal the role that was played by the different generations in the revolution, most notably the young revolutionary democrat, a disciplined soldier, the leader of young people par excellence, Solomon Mahlangu, who was hanged by the brutal apartheid regime. Indeed, he paid the supreme sacrifice, his life, in calling for equal education for all and in fighting for the freedom of his people. When he went to face the hangman, his last words were:
My blood will nourish the tree that will bear the fruits of freedom. Tell my people that I love them. They must continue the fight.
Today, as we speak, it is the blood of Solomon Mahlangu that is nourishing the tree of education in this country. Our post-schooling system is indeed on the right track. [Interjections.]
Would you like to ask a question, hon member?
Order, hon members! Hon member at the podium, please address the Chairperson, and don't respond directly to members.
Our democratic government is investing so much in young people and responding to the clarion call which was made by the late president Oliver Tambo, when he said:
A country, a movement, a people that does not value its youth does not deserve its future.
We are taking into account ... [Interjections.] ... that we need to grow our economy ... [Interjections.]
Hon members! Hon member at the podium, will you take your seat, please. Hon members, let's allow the hon member to continue with his speech and not drown him out with interjections. Allow him to be heard, just as you want to be heard when you are at the podium. Continue, hon member.
... by investing in the post-schooling system in general, and in both the EFF ... FET colleges and Setas ... [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Hon members! Hon members, you are now disrupting the debate. That is not correct. Five years in Parliament is a long time and we have just started. Continue, hon member.
Hon Chairperson, the noise and disruption that come from this side ...
Continue with your speech, hon member!
I repeat: by investing in the post-schooling system in general and in both the FET colleges and Setas in particular. Our Vision 2030 is crystal clear and has acknowledged some of our shortfalls as a country. Approximately three million young people between the ages of 18 and 24 are not accommodated in either the education and training system or the labour market. By 2030, we aim to raise university entrants to 1,5 million, a projected participation rate of 23%, as opposed to the 2011 enrolment of 899 120, a 16% participation rate in colleges or other post- schooling institutions.
In 1995 only 40 000 students were funded by the Tertiary Education Fund for SA, the Tefsa, with a budget of R154 million. Today our democratic government has increased the funding by the National Student Financial Aid Scheme to R9,7 billion for 430 000 students in 25 public universities. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Chair, youth in South Africa are young women and young men between the ages of 14 and 35 - most of them going through dramatic changes in their life circumstances and facing challenges and threats that are unique to them.
Forty-two percent of the population of this country are under 35 and prioritised attention has been focused on youth development through policies, institutions and endless programmes, yet the challenges and needs of young people seem to increase. Even where policy is good, we lack a capacity to implement it.
Young people are telling me that, after 20 years of democracy in South Africa, enhancing youth development means very little to them - especially to those who are not in major cities.
The biggest challenge, they say, is the lack of opportunity for employment. We are all painfully aware that statistics reveal very high unemployment amongst all demographic groups in South Africa, including the youth. Young people are saying that the biggest obstacle is that government is not doing enough to invest in skills development at the secondary education level. Our country needs, they say - and a very passionate a young man told me this - artisans, plumbers and electricians. As a developing country we need engineers too. Clearly we have not done enough to convince and fund young people to get the education and skills they need to qualify as artisans and engineers, amongst other things. Greater investment is needed if the youth are to get the chance they deserve to escape and avoid the poverty trap.
The Sectors Education and Training Authorities, Setas, created some years ago to address issues of skills development, have not had the impact envisioned or required. To add insult to injury, Setas continue to underspend their budgets.
Now, sadly and very importantly, the agency established by the Presidency to deal with youth issues is perceived by young people to have done very little. The National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, needs a serious revamp to include young people from all walks of life and different political parties if it is to become a credible body. The NYDA does not have a good story to tell, and there are good stories to tell. The lack of accountability has been one of the main problems. Government agencies must serve all citizens in the country, not just a select few.
ACDP Youth continue to call for greater emphasis on multiparty participation as they are convinced that this will bring greater accountability and more ideas to the agency with the prospect of more being achieved.
It is critically important that people in positions impacting on youth development have the required expertise and knowledge of youth development. A lack of capacity to link youth with skills and finance, even where youth desks exist, seems to be a factor contributing to the lack of success.
At a municipal level, youth officers operate with substantial but inadequate annual budgets that are very quickly exhausted by youth summits or conferences and transport to Youth Day celebration venues, as, increasingly, youth development is being regarded as an event rather than a process. The bottom line is that democracy and youth programmes are costly and there is no way around it. Thank you. [Time expired.]
The next speaker is the hon Gana, who is also delivering his maiden speech. [Applause.]
Ndza khensa, Mufambisi wa Ntirho. [Thank you, Chairperson.]
Hon members, fellow South Africans, I stand before you this afternoon as a proud South African who is committed to building this country and to ensuring that everyone has access to opportunities to better the quality of his or her life. I stand before you as a beneficiary of the efforts and heroism shown by the 1976 generation of young men and women.
Hon members, as we celebrate and commemorate Youth Month, we can all agree that the freedom we enjoy today is due to a significant degree to the efforts of the youth of 1976. We are harvesting the inheritance left behind by that generation of fearless young men and women.
Our duty today is to build on that inheritance and leave for future generations an even richer and brighter endowment. However, we cannot get there if we cannot ask and honestly respond to the question whether our individual and collective actions as leaders bring hope and inspiration to millions of young people in our land.
I know a lot has been done, yet so much more still needs to be done, done better and with more honesty. Last week, I read a report about primary school learners having to pay R2 to cross a makeshift bridge in the East Rand to get to school. This is 20 years into our democracy. We regularly read similar stories.
I can relate to the struggles of those learners from the East Rand. I used to walk 6km from Lefara to Mhlaba village on a daily basis, having to cross a river that had no bridge. As this was in the early 90s, it can perhaps be forgiven. But we cannot forgive our young people having to endure such difficulties in 2014, 20 years after the dawn of our democracy. [Applause.]
We have to ask what inheritance we are leaving behind for these learners, when we cannot give them the simplest instruments to make something of their lives when they are older. What do we expect them to think when they read about the billions of rands that are wasted and stolen each year when they don't have a proper bridge so that they can get to school safely? Will they be wrong to think that their inheritance is being stolen by leaders who are supposed to protect and nurture their future?
Hon members, we can't claim to be serious about improving the lives of our young people without improving the quality of their education and their access to it. Our education system must be geared towards equipping our learners to act and think independently so that they can be the architects of their own exit from their current difficult conditions.
We have to make available to them every possible resource so that they can successfully compete with the youth of other nations of the world when it comes to scientific and industrial innovations. This means a fundamental shift in the purpose of our education system - from preparing people for the labour market to producing scientists, businesspeople and industrialists.
That we have many young people with potential there is no doubt. There are many bright young people who are coming up with many innovative products, but they are not being showcased. For example, we have Ludwick Marishane, a young man from Limpopo, who developed a waterless bath solution and won the entrepreneur award in 2011. We have many such Ludwicks in South Africa, but we need to produce many more and provide better support for their development.
If we are to address the youth unemployment crisis that we face as a country, we have to encourage, support and celebrate innovations by our young people so that we can industrialise the products they develop.
As we discharge our responsibilities as members of this House, as leaders, we must at all times be guided by the desire to ensure that the sacrifice of the 1976 generation, some of whom are in this Chamber, is not in vain. The best way to do that is to do all we can to help our young people realise their dreams so that they can also receive their part of this rich inheritance.
A hi tirheni hi ku tshembeka hi mikarhi hinkwayo tanihi varhangeri va Afrika-Dzonga. Vantshwa i vumundzuku bya tiko rerhu. Ndza khensa. [Va phokotela.] (Translation of Xitsonga paragraph follows.)
[Let us always work honestly as leaders of South Africa. Youth is the future of our country. I thank you.] [Applause.]]
The next speaker is the hon Mahambehlala, who is also delivering her maiden speech. [Applause.]
House Chairperson, hon Deputy Speaker, Ministers, Deputy Ministers present today, hon members of this august House and guests in the gallery, allow me to greet you all. I am proud to have been given this opportunity to address this House on a subject close to my heart as a former youth league member, namely the role of the youth in building consciousness and patriotism in order to espouse solidarity and revolutionary commitment.
Hence, I make so bold as to state that I am the product of a revolutionary movement that has moulded me to such a degree that today I can stand at the podium in this august House. [Applause.]
For the youth of today, it is not enough to shout from the sidelines and be content with shouting the loudest. The answer lies in being involved in resolving the problems of the people. This is the best school, which not only defines the place and role of the youth, but a school where self- discipline, solidarity with other oppressed people and revolutionary consciousness is forged.
The power of the youth in nation-building is like a double-edged sword, which can swing to either the right or the left, depending on the intent of the person swinging the sword. Thus, even the youth, in its impatience, must still be disciplined and guarded. [Applause.]
Youth power is a recognised force in the world and therefore all development and education programmes should focus on the youth, particularly young women, in developing countries. No government worth its salt can ignore the plight of the youth.
I am proud that our own government dedicates a paragraph to the place and role of the youth and talks of the Youth Lens, the lens that cascades to all aspects affecting the youth, such as health, productive rights, education, employment and their role in the economy, amongst others.
The power of youth can therefore be utilised either as a constructive or a destructive force by any nation. But for the youth to be relevant, it must actively participate in the constructive process of engaging all citizens in building social cohesion, economic prosperity and political stability in an inclusive and democratic way. [Applause.]
Fellow lawmakers, Youth Month has rightly become synonymous with the 16 June 1976 Uprising, when a young group of learners took to the streets in defiance against racist laws being shoved down their throats through the school curriculum.
Our country will always be deeply indebted to the generation of 1976. As a product of the youth movement, I have come to cherish the daring and bravery of the generation of 1976, who were not only content with protests, but dared to join the ranks of our revolutionary army, uMkhonto weSizwe. [Applause.]
They are the generation that took up the cudgels of the founding heroes of the youth league. These include heroes such as Duma Nokwe, Oliver Tambo, Walter Sisulu, Anton Lambede, Albertina Sisulu, Nelson Mandela and Henry Makgothi, to name but a few, who found the path along which generations to come will move South Africa forward.
As the 1944 generation showed us, it takes the best of the best to be real revolutionaries. Only true patriots who are revolutionary-conscious will serve as catalysts for change and provide remedies or solutions to the problems that they have studied.
Youth aspirations need to be championed with vigour and facts. It would be of no use if in our advocacy we reduce our aspirations to sound bites. The youth should not cling to ideas that sound revolutionary, but should produce novel ideas that reflect realities and are capable of being sold for the betterment of their own living conditions. [Applause.]
Perhaps the youth of today should take a leaf from the tenacity of people such as O R Tambo, Duma Nokwe, Onkgopotse Tiro and Steve Biko who, at the height of colonialism and apartheid, valued education and achieved higher performance levels in difficult subjects. [Applause.] These were revolutionary intellectuals, not because they wore overalls and berets, but because of their deeds. [Laughter.]
The logo of the ANC Youth League, produced by young MK artists in exile, fascinates me. It states: Fight, produce, and learn. This to me was a far- sighted invention in the camps of MK. It is relevant to this date - the youth must learn and learn in order for our country to develop; it must produce and produce in order for our country to industrialise; and fight and fight all vestiges of backwardness, disease and ignorance in order for our country to advance to higher levels.
If we effectively do these things, the youth will continue to produce great lawyers like Duma Nokwe, great mathematicians and musicians like O R Tambo. And these heroes were not just content with their school books, they also fought to change the world and rid the country of apartheid. Despite their academic prowess, as true patriots they studied the nation's problems with vigour.
Young people in our era need to raise their hands and be counted. In the post-apartheid South Africa there is no reason not to be patriotic. Avenues to imbue consciousness are plenty. Youth from all creeds need to be visible and combat moral disintegration amongst Africans by upholding high ethical standards. That is what revolutionary commitment to the future of this magnificent country implies. [Applause.]
Since the advent of democracy, many young people have struggled to develop an identity that is South African rather than one that is geographically, politically, ethnically or racially defined. The National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, must promote the values of good citizenship and patriotism that assist young people to develop a positive identity and connectedness.
It should engage a cross-section of young people - the unemployed, students and the disabled - that are from a variety of cultural, religious and educational backgrounds. The NYDA should therefore seek to expand opportunities for all young people who wish to serve. The National Development Plan, NDP, dictates the necessity to strengthen youth service programmes as it is through such programmes that young people can forge unity.
In his address to the youth on Youth Day, hon Minister Nathi Mthethwa said:
The NDP 2030 alludes to the fact that the youth bear the brunt of unemployment.
The plan identifies the need for economic growth and jobs, education and skills as well as youth development. This can also be realised through the support of initiatives such as the Youth Enrichment Programme as part of youth development in arts and culture.
The programme will create jobs for young people through the skills they will acquire for the duration of the project. The Department of Arts and Culture has supported youth skills development in the North West, Gauteng, Limpopo and the Eastern Cape. This year the project will be rolled out in Mpumalanga and the Western Cape. [Applause.]
This was also emphasised in President Zuma's state of the nation address, wherein he mentioned the need to implement a youth accord - labelled by the hon Van Damme as crumbs for the youth. Well, such a label could not be more misplaced; crumbs are what the DA government gives the young people of the Western Cape. [Applause.]
She conveniently ignores the Ministry of Higher Education and Training's direct intervention to tackle what has become a hidden chronic problem, the lack of facilities and skills in rural communities. The R10 million skills development grant by the Department of Higher Education and Training in memory of Anene Booysen is such an initiative. This has skilled 700 learners in the rural town of Bredasdorp in various fields, making our youth more employable.
Hon Van Damme is a Johnny-come-lately in the world of activism and politics in general, so she would have missed this. [Interjections.] More importantly, this blatant lack of intimate knowledge shows that only revolutionaries really equip themselves with facts and undertake proper analysis. Those are only found in the ANC. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Hon members, the next speaker is the hon Plouamma. He is also delivering his maiden speech. [Applause.
Chairperson, thobela [good day]. The revolution of 1976 is a revolution betrayed. The blood of Solomon Mahlangu is no longer nourishing freedom, it is nourishing corruption. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members!
You only howl if you don't want to hear the truth. [Interjections.] I am not here to make friends, I am here to serve my people. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Order, hon members!
If we want to help the young people of this country, the ruling party must take a stand and say that no one on their side with the taint of corruption will be allowed in this Parliament. As long as we still allow corruption into our public space, all of the wishes we are talking about will only be good English.
We need a new revolution. That revolution must start with taking the ANC out if we want to help our people. [Applause.] Can I tell you one thing? [Interjections.]
Chair! [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Hon member at the podium, will you just sit down, please. Hon member, what is your point of order?
Hon Chair, is the hon member willing to take a question?
Hon member, are you prepared to take a question?
No. The only thing we need to emphasise is that if we want to help our young people, we need to start with taking the ANC out. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members!
You see, the only thing they have managed to do is this: it is the survival of the fittest in this country. Whether you get an education and want to succeed, you need to know somebody and he must be your friend or your family. It doesn't matter whether you have a PhD or a diploma of any sort or whether you are talented or gifted, the ANC has created an environment of corruption and connection. We will tell you this so that your conscience will talk to you even when you are asleep. [Interjections.] You have failed our young people and I ... [Time expired.]
Hon member, I have not called you yet. Could you wait, please. Hon members, while interjections are allowed, let's not drown out the speakers at the podium and let us give the speakers an opportunity to put their views across.
The next speaker is the hon Mbhele, who is delivering his maiden speech. [Applause.]
Chairperson, real and meaningful youth development and empowerment come down to three things: quality education, employment opportunities and entrepreneurial development. These three pillars are where our focus should be when we speak about youth development and empowerment.
Quite predictably, in this debate, only the DA has spoken clearly and compellingly to these crucial issues, backed by research and workable policies. [Applause.] My colleague the hon Cassim was quite right to say that the surest way to empower our youth is through quality, accessible education, because only a quality education equips young people with the knowledge and skills to meet the demands of the economy.
My colleague the hon Steenkamp was also very correct to repeat the call by the DA and the DA youth for the scrapping of the National Youth Development Agency, NYDA. With an annual budget of almost R400 million, we have seen minimal value add by this institution. In fact, given that the NYDA is better known for hosting international youth conferences that feature kissing contests and, given that millions have been spent on parties and travel, perhaps it should be renamed from National Youth Development Agency to the "National Yolo and Debauchery Agency". [Applause.]
Finally, my colleague the hon Gana highlighted very rightly that this country has many bright young people who are coming up with many innovations. In addition, the aspect of entrepreneurial development is especially key, because the entrepreneurs who see a gap in the markets and take a risk to offer new goods or services are the catalysts for innovation and growth. They produce true value and new wealth.
In reference to President Zuma, in his reply to the debate on the state of the nation address, he called for ideas to enrich debate. In this debate, from the ANC's side ...
... angitholanga lutho okunjalo. Ayikho imicabango ekhona ngalapho ... [... I didn't get anything like that. There are no ideas pertaining to that ...]
... apart maybe from some waffly compound sentences and history lessons. Let me say, while we honour our past, the main priority for our young people is to own our future. [Applause.] We need to head in that direction.
Hon Tobias spoke about how the ANC government invests money in education. It is quite right to point that out, but it is not enough to throw money at the problem. You have to get the management of the education system right and you start by addressing the stranglehold that the South African Democratic Teachers Union, Sadtu, has on the public education system, especially in townships where that improvement is much needed.
I heard hon Dirks mentioning the Freedom Charter. I would like to remind the hon Dirks that in the Freedom Charter it says that there will be work. It says that everyone will have the right and duty to work. So, if you want to reference the Freedom Charter, you had better make sure that you are actually putting it into action.
He also spoke about the fact that the ANC government is delivering quality education.
Umbuzo wami uthi: Kuphi? [My question is: Where?]
Where is this quality education? He spoke about how the ANC government has a plan. [Interjections.] Quite frankly, that is all the ANC seems to have - plans and intentions. The youth needs action and results. I will give you an example. Since 2010, the Ministerial ...
I just want to find out whether hon Mbhele is prepared to take a simple question.
Hon Mbhele, are you prepared to take a question?
No, thank you, Chairperson. For example, since 2010, the Ministerial Committee on the Review of the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS, recommended the implementation of a legislative framework to give effect to the constitutional imperative of a free higher education. Four years later, we have nothing of the sort. We just have more policies, more layers of structures and subcommittees, as hon Cassim said. We have had enough of talk, plans and intentions. We need action.
In closing, I must say, as many members have said previously, the struggle of the youth of 1976 was for political freedom. Our generation's struggle is for economic freedom, real economic freedom and freedom that we can use. [Applause.] The first step to unlocking that freedom is opportunities that get a young person's feet on the economic ladder and open the door to a sustained career path. We cannot afford any more delays or dithering in creating these opportunities on a large scale. It must happen now. [Applause.]
Hon Chairperson, it is difficult to debate with people who are here by accident, like the hon Plouamma of Agang SA, who came here just because Dr Mamphela Ramphele was too tired to come to Parliament. [Laughter.] I think you can hear from the quality of the contribution to this debate that it was just by chance and mistake that the hon Plouamma found himself at this podium.
The hon Hlengwa says that the ANC has no good story to tell. We have a bulging young, black middle class; R3 billion has been invested in the National Student Financial Aid Scheme, NSFAS ... [Interjections.]
Order, hon members!
... 700 000 further education and training, FET, enrolments; 12 000 artisans, with a target of 30 000 a year by 2030; 90% of enrolment in basic education; two new universities - and if you don't know how a university operates, you will think it's a glorified high school. If this is not a good story to tell, then we must invest in buying you a comic book, because that is where good stories are for you. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] [Applause.]
The National Youth Development Agency, NYDA, has turned the corner. It has invested in a young person called Bohlakoana Moleko, who runs Yea Media Farmer Fresh Pty (Ltd) and grows spinach and Chinese vegetables, which he supplies to the Chinese markets and restaurants. He received support from the NYDA. This is one of the many stories in which the NYDA has invested and that resulted in small, medium and micro enterprise, SMME, support, as well as co-operative support. It has also resulted in young people not being seekers of jobs, but creators of jobs. [Applause.] [Interjections.] So, the next time we open our mouths about what the NYDA used to be, we should remember that a corner has been turned and we should applaud the current leadership of the National Youth Development Agency. [Applause.]
Twenty years ago, Nelson Mandela and millions of South Africans cast their votes for the first time, breaking South Africa from various epochs of land dispossession and loss of humanity and identity of black people in general and Africans in particular. As April 27 dawned and news of less political violence and general ululation was beamed on national television and printed in the mainstream media, a collective sigh of relief was heard the world over as we took the first giant step towards reconciliation, nation- building and economic development.
That day was not handed over to the struggling and toiling masses by De Klerk, but was the result of thousands of cadres having died in prison, exile and townships. De Klerk could not keep his behind on a hot, boiling pot for as long as the country was declared ungovernable and the ANC was preparing itself to govern. [Applause.] Unlike many things, freedom has a price and our youth have, over the years, paid that price.
This year, as we celebrate the 20th anniversary of freedom and the 38th anniversary of June 16, a narrative is emerging that those who were born in 1994 should be referred to as the "born-frees". Dominant intellectuals insist that "born-frees" are regarded as those who were born on or after 27 April and therefore are free South Africans, without the birthmark of influx control, apartheid brutality, land dispossession, economic exploitation, academic exclusion, racialised poverty, loud sirens of Hippos and "mellow yellows", silent nights of petrol bombs and struggle songs. Because others voted, they were therefore without sin, cordoned into an ideal world that knows no poverty, unemployment or inequality. Those unlucky ones amongst them who are still trapped in the cycle of poverty and want, just as their parents were, are told by the DA that they should blame the ANC - it has not delivered for the last 20 years...
Chairperson ...
... or are told by my former comrades in the EFF that the ANC of Nelson Mandela has sold out.
Hon Deputy Minister, will you just take your seat, please? Yes, hon member.
Hon Chairperson, will the hon Deputy Minister take a question about how he sat and voted for his wife? [Interjections.]
Hon member, hon Deputy Minister, will you take your seat, please. Take your seat, please. Hon member!
Yes, Chairperson.
You have asked if the hon Deputy Minister would take a question. He had not even considered it yet and you went ahead to ask the question. Will you please respect the Chair. Take your seat, please?
Sure. [Interjections.]
Continue, hon Deputy Minister.
Thank you, hon Chairperson. Yes, there are young people who were plucked out of the doomed future that apartheid had set for them even before they were born. There are young people who today study in mixed-race, public and private schools. Some of them are products of these schools and come here and speak very intellectually and say that this government has failed. [Interjections.] [Applause.] Yes, there are young people who today have better health care, education, housing, security, jobs and a better life than their parents could have ever imagined.
We must contest this narrative of the dominant intellectuals. We are a product of history as much as we are a product of the present. We bear the scars that were inflicted on our parents since our continent was discovered by Jan van Riebeeck.
Hon Chairperson, may I pose a question to the hon Deputy Minister? [Interjections.]
Hon member ...
We just want to know ...
Hon member ...
... where his wife is employed. [Interjections.]
Hon member, it seems to me you have not listened to my previous ruling. I said you get up and you say that you want to pose a question. Even before I recognised you, you went ahead and asked the question!
I am sorry.
Hon member, I am addressing you! Will you take your seat, please? Continue, hon Deputy Minister. [Interjections.]
Thank you very much. The radical changes that we see - albeit not enough - are because of the efforts of the ANC-led government and its majority in this Parliament.
The youth of our country, in general, are not, and should never be, regarded as "born free". The concept of being born free in our context is ideologically fraudulent and is littered with inconsistencies. It essentially suggests that the struggle ended in 1994 and, for us, it is aluta continua! [the struggle continues!] [Applause.]
We will only be born free if the hospitals we are born in have facilities of the same, or better quality; if the crches we go to have the same or better quality; if our schools have libraries, computer laboratories and science laboratories; if we all have equal chances of graduating from Grade 12 with skills and equal access to further and higher education and training; and if we live in an equal society and have fully achieved the transition to a democratic dispensation, then we will be free in the true sense of what Hector Pieterson, Tsietsi Mashinini and others went into the streets for.
There are no born-frees. There are only the children of Mandela, who are committed and prepared to take forward the struggle initiated by Langalibalele Dube, Bitini, Walter Sisulu, Chris Hani, Oliver Tambo, and many others. [Applause.]
This administration has committed itself, as part of a radical economic transformation, to use its access to and leverage of state power, authority and resources to change the lives of millions of our people so they may free themselves. The lives of young people, such as Hector Pieterson, Tsietsi Mashinini, Hastings Ndlovu, were amongst the many that paid dearly for 1994 to happen. Therefore, we must never be patronised by the thinking that there will be a Messiah born, in whatever uniform, to come and liberate young people, because the youth of this country are their own liberators. [Applause.]
What happened in Marikana on that fateful day of 16 August 2012 remains inexcusable and has forced the Police Service to ensure that it equips itself with tactical training to defuse such situations. We can never, ever compare Soweto 1976 or the Sharpeville murder of our people with what happened in Marikana. [Interjections.] This government is taking action to ensure that those who were responsible for that tragedy are held liable for their actions. The Farlam Commission has been set up to investigate the circumstances of August 16 and give answers to the families of those who lost their lives before, during, and after that tragic afternoon.
We will never, ever compete with our former comrades in the EFF in their endeavour to break every parliamentary law or Rule that has been set, or undermine judicial processes set up to bring closure for these families who lost their loved ones - because none of us will win against what, essentially, has become their profession. Never should we compete with them in kicking down doors - some of them even kicking open doors - as they have been doing since they arrived in Parliament with their red workers' uniforms.
Chairperson! Chairperson! Chair!
Hon Deputy Minister, would you take your seat, please. Yes, hon member.
Hon Deputy Minister, may I ask you a question?
Hon Deputy Minister, are you prepared to take a question?
No.
Hon members, may I also just indicate that we should not disrupt speakers by continuously asking for questions in the same speech, if it quite obviously ... [Interjections.] Order! Order! Hon members, I previously made a ruling against a member of the ANC, so the same applies to everyone. Continue, hon Deputy Minister.
Thank you, hon Chair. We should not compete with those who are prepared to even kick open doors, since their arrival in Parliament in their red workers' uniforms, behind which we believe are hiding Louis Vuitton shoes, very expensive, matching Gucci belts and Breitling watches! [Interjections.] We must never be fooled - just as the workers and the poor of this country were never fooled. That is why, even if this noise and sound appeals to the mainstream media, it will never appeal to the working class and the poor who came out in their numbers on 7 May to vote for the ANC - 62,3% of them. [Applause.]
Mr Chairperson! [Interjections.]
Hon Deputy Minister. Yes, hon member.
Can I ask a question to a supposed-to-be real communist?
Hon member, you don't have permission to ask the question yet and thus I am not going to allow you to ask that question now, because you have ignored the previous rulings. Continue, hon Deputy Minister.
Thank you, Chair. Perhaps someone else can take a moment to ask a question, because I will need to drink water at some point.
This lot, the hon members, have perfected this caricature and this drama, some of which they started in their heyday in the Congress of South African Students, Cosas, in the ANC Youth League, and now in their own spaza shop called the EFF. [Interjections.] However, we must challenge the ...
Chairperson, I rise on a point of order ...
Yes, hon member?
I think it is extremely out of order for Buti to say the EFF is a spaza shop. [Interjections.] It is a political party. I think he must withdraw what he said there, please. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Hon members, let us treat each other with the necessary respect and maintain the decorum of the House. Let us also refer to each other as "hon members". I will look at the Hansard and, if need be, I will come back to make a ruling in that regard. Will the hon Deputy Minister continue?
Hon Chair ... [Interjections.]
Order, hon members!
Hon Chair, what if he admits it and wants to withdraw? Can you give him a chance to withdraw? [Interjections.] [Laughter.] Please!
Order, hon members!
Please! [Laughter.]
Hon Chief Whip of the EFF, take your seat, please. I have said that I will check the Hansard, and I will make a ruling in that regard. That is the prerogative - hon member, will you take your seat! I have not recognised you! That is the prerogative that I have, as the House Chairperson, to do so. I will report back at the appropriate time, if necessary!
Now, to the hon member behind the hon Shivambvu, what is your point of order now?
Chair, on a point of order: I want to check with you if it is ... [Laughter.]
Order!
... parliamentary decorum to refer to people as a "lot". [Interjections.] It seems to me that there is a level of disrespect and commodification of people. Thank you.
Will you take your seat, hon member? Hon Deputy Minister, did you refer to anyone in the House as a "lot"?
No. No, hon Chair. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Order! [Interjections.] Order, hon members! Hon Deputy Minister ...
What I said was that "this lot, the hon members" - so, it is a lot of hon members. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Order, order!
Hon members, I want to get on with this debate and conclude it. You are now prolonging the sitting. [Interjections.]
Look! Look! [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! [Laughter.] Order!
This comrade is lying. I mean, like ... he is lying. He knows what he is trying to do. [Interjections.] [Laughter.]
No, no, no, no, no! [Laughter.]
So, can he withdraw this thing here, because he must respect people here.
Order, Chair!
Hon Shivambu, hon Shivambu! Will you take your seat, please? [Interjections.] I will ...
Order, Chair!
Hon members, take your seats! I will check the Hansard to see exactly what was said during this input by the Deputy Minister, and, if need be, we will revert to the House to deal with the matter. Let us allow the Deputy Minister to conclude the debate.
Thank you very much, hon Chair. [Interjections.] We must challenge the selective solidarity ...
No, hon ... hon Deputy Minister. Hon member, what is your point of order now? [Interjections.]
My point of order is directed at the hon Chairperson. [Interjections.] It seems I would want to put a question to the Chairperson. [Interjections.]
What do you want, hon member? [Interjections.]
I want to put a question to the Chairperson. [Interjections.]
You want to put a question to me? [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
Yes. [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! Order! [Interjections.] Order! Order, hon members! Perhaps it is a question of clarity that you seek. Let's give the hon member an opportunity.
I want to know if the Chairperson has lost his right to make an instant ruling ... [Interjections.] ... as the right bestowed on you as a presiding ...
Hon member, will you take your seat, please? That is the prerogative of the presiding officer. Take your seat! Continue, hon Deputy Minister. [Interjections.] Hon members on both sides of the House, can we allow the hon Deputy Minister to conclude, please?
Thank you, hon Chair. Unfortunately, this is not a rally. There are Rules, regulations, procedures ... [Interjections.]
However, we must challenge the selective solidarity and sympathy that is given the workers of Marikana by the EFF. Their choice of solidarity is determined by the membership of the workers whose lives were lost, and only the Association of Mineworkers and Construction Union, Amcu, members' lives have been deserving of the solidarity and sympathy of the EFF. Just last week, former Amcu shop steward, Aaron Mavimbela, was sentenced to 20 years' imprisonment, guilty of killing a National Union of Mineworkers, NUM, shop steward, Jacques Naud, who left behind his wife, Elsa, and her two children, Rupert and Xanthe.
As we meet here today to debate the challenges facing the youth, there is a certain Mr X who is testifying at the Farlam Commission, where one of the fighters, Adv Dali Mpofu, is raking in millions as a representative of the families of the workers. Mr X has testified under oath that he participated in the torture and murder of two security guards, Hassan Fundi and Frans Mabelani, at the instruction of their sangoma [traditional healer], so that their body parts could be mixed with "intelezi" For the hon Maimane, that is black magic. [Laughter.]
Chairperson, Chairperson.
Yes, hon member.
May I raise a point of order?
What is your point of order, hon member?
The issue of the witness, Mr X, is sub judice ... [Interjections.] ... and the issue of "inyanga" [traditional healer] cannot be referred to in the House. [Interjections.] Would you rule on that, Chairperson?
Order, hon members! Hon members, the matter of Marikana is, indeed, sub judice. However, the hearings that are taking place are taking place in public, and have been reported upon. If the matter is sub judice, it does not mean that any Member of Parliament who enjoys freedom of speech in this House is prevented from referring to the proceedings without prejudging the outcome of the commission of inquiry that is currently sitting.
But, Chair, order! [Interjections.]
Order, hon members!
Chair, the hon Malema here was evicted from this House because part of the ruling was that the issue is still under investigation and that we cannot say that the police killed the strikers ... [Interjections.]
Order, hon members!
... despite the fact that, in the evidence given there, the police admitted to having killed the people!
Order, hon members! Hon member, will you take your ...
Where is the consistency?
Hon Shivambu!
Where is the consistency in terms of the rulings by the Chair?
Hon Shivambu! Hon Shivambu! Hon Shivambu, will you take your seat, please. [Interjections.]
On a point of order, Chair.
Hon member, what is your point of order? [Laughter.]
House Chairperson, I request your indulgence on the matter. Firstly, I refer to the Rules of the House, in terms of Rule 67, where it explains precisely what a sub judice matter is.
Secondly, I want to appeal that, when members rise - because they have been disrupting the member on the platform - they also understand the Rules. Perhaps we must appeal for another Rules workshop to be run so that we can ...
Hon member, will you take your seat, please. Hon members, I have given a ruling in this regard, and referred, in context, to what is currently taking place. May I request hon members to allow the speaker to continue now, so that we can complete the debate? Thank you very much to both sides of the House for interventions to try to assist me in chairing this session. [Laughter.] Your advances are noted. However, it will not be entertained any further. I am not going to entertain another point of order on this matter. Conclude, hon Deputy Minister.
Thank you very much, Chairperson. So, they had to then go and kill Hassan Fundi and Frans Mabelani at the instruction of their sangoma so that their body parts could be mixed with "intelezi", animal fat and blood to make them invisible and invincible when they confronted police ammunition.
Chairperson ... [Interjections.]
Hon member, are you rising on a new point of order?
Yes. It's a new point ...
What is the new point of order?
There is no proof that has been validated by any court of law ... [Interjections.]
Order, hon member!
There is no proof that has validated the allegations made in the Farlam Commission on the death ... [Interjections.]
Order, hon members! [Interjections.]
... of the people that the hon member is mentioning. Thank you.
Hon member, I am following very closely what the Deputy Minister is saying. If there are any specific conclusions that he is trying to arrive at, then I will rule on the matter as it arises, if that is the case. Let's allow the Deputy Minister to continue.
Thank you. Hon members must listen carefully when I use the word "allegedly".
These security guards had wives and children, who are excluded from your rants and raves of sympathy, because they were not Amcu members, but were allegedly victims of its violence. No union should refer to itself as revolutionary if it instructs that workers' lives should be taken with ease. In addition, any political party that associates itself with such a union and financially supports it should hang its head in shame. [Applause.] Ten people died, including policemen, security guards and NUM members before August 16.
The Fourth Parliament observed a moment of silence and held a debate dedicated to that tragic Thursday afternoon of 16 August 2012. Today, I would like us to observe a moment of silence for the following workers, who were allegedly killed by other workers: Andile Menzi, a young person, a 24- year-old member of the NUM, who died in May 2013; Julius Langa, who died on 13 August 2013; and Sello Lepaaku, a member of the SA Police Service, who died on 13 August 2013.
These are not just names or numbers or statistics. These are human beings, part of the group of 28 workers who had died since the strike in Lonmin and Marikana began, and whose names are never mentioned, whose wives and children deserve neither your sympathy nor your solidarity, just because they are not Amcu members, but they were allegedly massacred individually, as per the testimony, by other unions, by other union members.
May their souls rest in peace. More importantly, however, if August 16 was a massacre, this Parliament will make those who are responsible - whether they are the police or not - account, and we hope that no political party will jump to conclusions. Thank you. [Applause.]
Thank you, Deputy Minister, you may leave the podium. Thank you. [Interjections.] Order, hon members! Hon members, order!
Hon members, during the course of the debate ...
Can I ask a question, Chair? [Interjections.]
Hon member ...
Just on clarity, Chair.
To whom?
With due respect, to you.
Yes?
Is the Deputy Minister done? [Laughter.]
Hon member, will you take your seat, please?
Okay! [Laughter.]
I think it is quite obvious that he has completed his speech! [Laughter.]
Hon members, order! [Laughter.] Order! There is an important matter that has been brought to my attention.
During the course of the debate, reference was made to a certain person having passed away. In terms of the Rules, I have considered the request from the hon Tobias, who briefly wants to correct the input made in this debate.