Deputy Speaker, in answer to the hon member, yes, I intend to continue with the implementation of the centralised application service and I definitely also intend to continue with the oversight committee on the transformation of universities.
The first phase of the central application service was implemented in 2013 through the Central Application Clearing House, which we call Cach. Preparation for the implementation of the central application service is in process and its progress will be shared with all the relevant stakeholders as it unfolds.
The Oversight Committee on the Transformation of South African Universities was established in January 2013 and I am pleased to say that it held its first meeting in February 2013 to map out its work. For the record and to remind hon members, the members of the oversight committee are Prof Makgoba, who is the chairperson, Prof Shirley Walters, Ms Nazeema Mohamed, Dr Andre Keet, Mr Joe Mpisi, Ms Zingiswa Losi, and Dr Mvuyo Tom. Thank you.
Hon Minister, given that more than 8 000 sector education and training authority, Seta, job-seeking students were left without certificates - some of them for up to three years - and in the light of Seta annual reports that irregular expenditure has increased by more than 100% to R402 million in the 2011-12 year, mainly due to irregularities with supply chain management, on what grounds would you try to convince the people of South Africa that your department should be entrusted with the entire Higher Education application process and the complexities of transformation and social cohesion, if students can't even get their certificates?
Deputy Speaker, with due respect to the hon member, I think she is combining two things that do not go together. If, hon member, you want to ask me a question about outstanding certificates from the Seta system, and what I am doing about it, please feel free to ask that question directly, so that I can come back and answer it here. Do not mix it in with our university system, if you are asking a question about the university system.
We believe that what we are doing is being widely welcomed by the higher education community, especially by the poor students who sometimes have to pay 7 different application fees or even up to 10 institutions. Those are the poor students! That is why this thing would not make sense to the DA because the DA does not speak for the poor students. That, amongst other things, is what we are trying to address here.
Nikhulumela izingane zabantu abadla izambane likapondo, hhayi lezi zingane okuyizona ezidinga ukuthi zifake izicelo zokufunda endaweni eyodwa, zingakhokhi imali eningi ngokufaka izicelo kuzo zonke izindawo. Ngiyabonga Phini likaSomlomo. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[You only speak for the children of the elite, not the ones who need to apply to only one institution, so that they don't have to pay more money when applying to many institutions. Thank you, Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]]
Hon Minister, I think your intervention seeks in part to address the issue of what I would call the chaos which is evident during the registration period at universities and FET colleges. Now, part of the problem is that there is such a short space of time between the release of the matric results and the start of the academic year in which universities and FET colleges actually have to place these students and manage their transition from secondary education to higher education.
The question I put to you, hon Minister, is whether you would consider staggering the higher education academic calendar to allow a reasonable time for the placement of students in order for them to access financial aid and residences properly. The other advantage of this is that students who have not passed or who want to rewrite their exams will have the time to rewrite and then be placed in institutions.
So the primary question is, are you considering staggering the academic calendar so that it, for example, starts between June and July? Thank you.
Hon Deputy Speaker, no, I do not intend to stagger registration insofar as universities are concerned. With colleges it is different, because their registration is already staggered.
I do understand the issue that you are raising. There is too short a time between, for instance, the release of the matric results and the opening of the institutions. We are dealing with this matter in two ways: firstly, universities call for early applications. There is often a high correlation between the students' mid-year results of the previous year and the students who actually qualify for university entrance. That is the one way.
What we have also done now is to allow late applications for those students who have done surprisingly better in their final matric examinations or for students who have been kicked out of the system because they did not do well in their final matric exams. The Cach system was the first step towards actually having a central system which students can access through a computer or through a phone instead of going to apply physically. Universities are able to use it to identify those students who had passed whom they would actually like to take. At the moment, we think that that is the best we can do. The closer we move to a central applications system, the better we will improve our capacity to overcome the challenges that you are talking about. Thank you.
Sekela Somlomo, ndifuna ukubuza apha kuMphathiswa ukuba ezi mpula kalujaca uthetha ngazo, abantwana booMaMpehle abangathathintweni, ndifuna ukuqonda ukuba ... [Hon Deputy Speaker, I would like to ask the hon Minister whether the poor people she is referring to, children of the Mpehle lineage who are destitute, I would like to know ...]
... how will the poor people from rural areas be able to access the system? Will it not be detrimental to them because they might not have access to phones and the new technologies that we have? That's the first part of the question.
The second part of the question is whether we have the capacity as the department. Is the steering committee still busy discussing the whole process with the implementation of the programme to fully come on steam in January 2014?
In particular, what is the co-operation you are getting, because we don't want only our students to go to Fort Hare, Limpopo and so on? Co-operation from universities like the University of the Orange Free State, the University of Port Elizabeth in terms of this programme is necessary because those are benchmark institutions. Will these universities co- operate, or do we have a form of compulsory approach that would bring these universities into the programme?
Deputy Speaker, I would like to thank the hon member for the question.
There are a number of things we are doing precisely to address the issue of access to appropriate technology, especially by students who are poor.
Firstly, we now have what we call the Apply Now campaign. It will start around April of each year. That is early enough and allows students to visit as many schools as possible. At the moment, we have the Apply Now campaign running on nine SABC radio stations. This should encourage our youngsters to actually apply.
Secondly, we are improving career guidance at the moment as a very crucial component of what we are doing.
Thirdly, we have a high penetration of cellphones in our country. We are looking at how... The estimate, by the way, is that more than 80% of our youth, including rural youth, actually have access to a cellphone in one way or the other. What we should then determine is how we are able to piggy- back on this technology in order to ensure access. But we are also trying to avoid physical queues, so that kids from rural areas who then pitch up at the University of Johannesburg are directed to and assisted at computer- assisted facilities so that they are able to enter their details and also see what opportunities there are. We have to try and make sure that not a single child is disadvantaged by a lack of technology that would allow them to access these opportunities.
Ngithemba ukuthi uyezwa Bab'uBhanga. Ngiyabonga. [I hope that you understand, hon Bhanga. Thank you.]
Deputy Speaker, the hon Minister will, in fact, realise that the next question he will be responding to is mine, and it addresses the issue of rural students. What we firstly want to know is whether this system has served learners in terms of the number of learners linked to education institutions. Secondly, we want to know whether the hon Minister, with the experience gained from the pilot, has any particular challenges that he would want to share with the House. Thank you.
Deputy Speaker, I wish to thank the hon member, and I wish to assure him that, yes, by the way, we are monitoring this very closely and we are learning lessons.
Initially, even before we started, we looked closely at the central application system already operating for years now in KwaZulu-Natal. All their universities are linked. They have been doing central applications and they have now even included some of the FET colleges.
One of the challenges - and I won't be able to mention all of them - always occurs whenever the new academic year starts for the students who have to register. That was one of the major contributing factors to the disaster at the University of Johannesburg. Even those students who were told that they had been accepted flocked in physically once the registration process started. We found that they wanted to go because, in some instances, there was a fear that, now that the process had started with another group of students, they might actually lose their spaces and so on. So, the more we tighten this system, the better.
By the way, I forgot to say to hon Bhanga that the full-blown central applications system will not be in place for 2014; it will be for the beginning of the 2015 academic year, as I had said before. Thank you. Particulars regarding effectiveness of Central Applications Clearing House
74. Mr Z S Makhubele (ANC) asked the Minister of Higher Education and Training:
(a) Is he satisfied that the Central Applications Clearing House (CACH) serves the intended purpose and (b) to what extent was it accessible to applicants from rural areas? 445E
Deputy Speaker and hon Makhubele, the intended purpose of the Central Application Clearing House, facility was achieved over the last year when we were piloting it for the start of this academic year. The aim was to provide a service to students who matriculated in 2012 but had not applied for spaces at universities or had applied but were not successful at the institutions of their choice.
The Cach facility provided access to career advice and assisted with redirecting prospective students to opportunities within the post-school system so that they are not all over the place. We identified universities that had a specific number of spaces in a particular field, and students are able to access this information. A full evaluation of Cach will be undertaken once the service closes for the 2013 intake at the end of April this year. A multimedia advocacy campaign, as I had indicated with the earlier question, created awareness of the Cach facility, with the radio and television being used as the main media to provide information to prospective students, parents and members of our communities, especially learners in rural areas. A website, social media, toll free number and the popular "please call me" facility will also be used to ensure that learners could access Cach. Preliminary data indicates that Cach was able to reach prospective students from rural areas as well. Thank you.
Hon Deputy and hon Minister, we will be awaiting that information in terms of what happened in deep rural areas, because the possibility is that those sitting at Muyexe and other rural areas may not necessarily have been reached by this particular system. We want to know regarding the spread. Will it have been able to make an impact in those particular areas? Thank you, hon Deputy Speaker.
Hon Deputy Speaker, just like the member, we are looking forward to doing this analysis after April. I also wish to assure members that we would like to come and present that evaluation to the Portfolio Committee on Higher Education and Training so that we can evaluate the success or failure of this system collectively. Thank you.
Hon Deputy Speaker, has the Minister considered widening the scope of the Cach beyond postdeadline university entrance to administer applications for courses on a wider basis, and what are the relevant details? From your response, I sort of picked up that perhaps we were going in that direction to some degree already. Does the Cach also cater for part- time students and, if not, does the Minister intend expanding the use of this system to do so?
Deputy Speaker, in short, we want to say to the hon member, once you are extending and expanding this system, which must culminate in 2015 with a full-blown central application service, you must be cautious of overloading the system too early. For example, at the moment, the primary focus lies with universities, even though we are aware that soon after 2015, we will have to expand this to all our postschool education and training institutions, especially the FET colleges. In implementing this, we want to make sure that we build on the strengths and the positives that we have already identified and already have in the system and not to rush it too much, to the extent that we end up collapsing the system. Thank you.
Deputy Speaker and Minister, can you give universities the assurance that they would still have the autonomy to decide which students they want to accept at their respective institutions, based on their own admission criteria and requirements and that Cach's forerunner, as you say to the central application system, will not be used in future by the department to place students at different institutions?
Deputy Speaker and hon Lotriet, yes, this is a central application system. It is not a central admissions system. The universities will retain their right to choose which students they accept or do not accept, but they must do that within the framework of the transformation guidelines that, amongst other things, include the fact that, for instance, access to universities by poor students must be shared by all the universities. They must not be the burden of only the poorer universities while more elite universities only cherry-pick and do not actually share the burden of accepting students who come from poor backgrounds, who also require a lot of attention. This is just an example of one guideline.
We must ensure that autonomy also is not vulgarised and used as a means of exclusion. These universities, much as they are autonomous, their autonomy must be balanced with public accountability, as the 1997 Higher Education White Paper says. Thank you very much, hon Deputy Speaker.
Mphathiswa, masilwe okokugqibela. [Hon Minister, let us fight for the last time.]
Minister, maybe the problem here is the fact that you are unable to come to the relevant committee meetings and respond to questions about some of these important policy positions. You are undermining the committees as we have never seen you in our committee. We have just received a report on accommodation. You do not come; you refuse to come and explain these things. How do we trust you on behalf of the poor and the masses when you disregard the platforms of Parliament in this country? We will never trust you because you are not the right person to be trusted in this regard.
You promised students in Venda that you would improve their accommodation. You do not come to answer these questions, therefore I do not trust you. You are not a person to be trusted. You have left the workers in the party office. You are here today, and they are leaderless there. [Interjections.]
Deputy Speaker, can I start by formally lodging a point of order because for a member to claim that I do not come to the portfolio committee is simply not true. He is actually misleading the House. [Interjections.] I come to the committee when I am invited. When I am not in a position to come to the committee, I always make sure that I apologise. Also, I make sure that either I send the Deputy Minister to go to the committee or, if the Deputy Minister is not available, the director-general or relevant senior officials go, depending on the question.
It cannot be that the hon member may come and mislead the House here, let alone saying this other thing, that I don't go to universities. Have you been to the University of Venda, wena [you], to know what is going on there? [Interjections.] I visit these institutions all the time. Sometimes I apologise from the committee because I have to go and physically do an inspection and engage with these institutions.
Hhayi, Bhanga ungezi ukuzokhuluma into engekho lapha eNdlini. Cha, ngiyakhononda impela, Phini likaSomlomo. Ngizocela ukuthi uthathe isinqumo ngoba ayikho le nto eliyishoyo ilungu leli elihloniphekile - angazi noma lisahloniphekile yini uma likhuluma kanje.[Uhleko.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[No, Bhanga, do not come here to tell untruths to the House. Yes, I am really raising a point of order, Deputy Speaker. I would like you to make a ruling because what this respectable hon member is saying is not true - I am not sure whether he is still respectable if he is talking like this. [Laughter.]]
Particulars regarding challenges faced in advancing Phase Two of Lesotho Highlands Water Project
78. Ms J Manganye (ANC) asked the Minister of Water and Environmental Affairs: Whether the South African component of the Commission on the Lesotho Highlands Water Project experienced any challenges or difficulties with advancing Phase Two of the project; if so, what are the relevant details? NO449E
Hon Deputy Speaker, the response to the question asked by the hon member Manganye is that as South Africa, we have fulfilled all our preconditions of the treaty, including the parliamentary ratification process in order to commence with the implementation of Phase 2 of the Lesotho Highlands Water Project. I would like to express our appreciation to this august House for having processed that ratification as quickly as we did.
The Lesotho government has also committed itself to the principles of developing the project for the benefit of the people of South Africa and Lesotho during a meeting between our President and the Right Honourable Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Lesotho. The Prime Minister requested time for the new Lesotho coalition government to study and understand the full implications of the agreement that was signed on 11 August 2011 with our Ministers.
The government of Lesotho has furthermore assured us that they would make every effort to conclude their study of the agreement as early as possible. At this stage there has been no formal communication from Lesotho following the meeting between our President and their Prime Minister where the request was made that any changes to the agreement signed on 11 of August be considered. In other words, we don't have any detailed request that has been made at the moment. Thank you very much.
Deputy Speaker and hon Minister, I'm happy about the answer that you gave the House... [Interjections.] [Laughter.]
Continue, hon member.
Hon Minister, since the interim project management contract for the Lesotho Highlands Water Project has been extended, can the Minister please elaborate on any new responsibility that will be expected from the interim project management unit. How long will the extended contract take?
Hon Deputy Speaker, indeed, a project management unit has been appointed. At this point in time we will have to wait for the Lesotho government to get back to us with regard to specific proposals, and changes that they would like to be made. Only on that basis will we be able to know with certainty and say how long we would have that project management unit in place and how things would unfold going forward. Thank you.
Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, can you advise this House whether the reports about corrupt tender processes in Phase 2 of this project are founded. If yes, have they been investigated, and are there prosecutions pending? I thank you.
Hon Deputy Speaker, perhaps I should start by indicating that there has been no indication whatsoever, no sign at any close proximity, that there has been any corruption in the Lesotho Highlands Water Project's Phase 2. We all know that in the Phase 1, yes, there was, indeed, a lot of corruption. People went to jail. There is a person whom we know was appointed by the Lesotho government who has been part of that previous mishap, but certainly that person is not part of Phase 2 of the Lesotho Highlands Water Project. Therefore, there is nothing whatsoever that suggests anything about Phase 2 of the Lesotho Highlands Water Project. Thank you.
Madam Deputy Speaker, hon Minister, Phase 2 of the Lesotho Highlands Water Project entails the construction of a tunnel that will take water from Polihali Dam to the Katse Dam. How and from where will the R9 billion be raised for the construction of the Polihali Dam? Will this have an impact on the pricing of water in Gauteng? If yes, will this be done on a phased basis and how will this be communicated to the end users?
Hon Deputy Speaker, the construction of the Polihali Dam and Phase 2 of the Lesotho Highlands Water Project are undertaken by our Trans-Caledon Tunnel Authority, TCTA. The Trans-Caledon Tunnel Authority is a government institution that constructs dams and such infrastructures on behalf of government by raising money off- budget. There are times when the TCTA is also supported, from the government's point of view, where there is a social component to that water in order to cushion the pricing of water. In this instance it is highly possible that there would also be a cushioning by the South African government from the Treasury's point of view in order to take care of the social component of our water. That part has not yet been determined.
The Trans-Caledon Tunnel Authority is currently still raising those funds and it is very premature to say if pricing would actually go up and at what level will it be. I must say that in Water Affairs we are currently working with our stakeholders to determine the water tariff policy throughout government and all dams. That would also be helpful in terms of ensuring that water tariffs in this country are done in a very scientific and balanced manner. Thank you. [Applause.]
Is there somebody who pressed hon Minister Nqakula's to talk button? No, I have your name here.
Deputy Speaker, while we are still waiting for the Lesotho government to come back to us, I would like to ask the hon Minister if she would exercise an annual and continuous proactive oversight on the projects, specifically in light of the corruption that muddied Phase 1 of the project. What exactly would this process be that the Minister would follow? Thank you?
Hon Deputy Speaker, we have an obligation to monitor the whole process regarding the Lesotho Highlands Water Project's Phase 2. We are continuing to do so, proactively, as has always been happening.
We have also embodied this aspect in the agreement that was signed in 2011 with my counterpart. We do have an oversight structure that looks at the implementation of this project every step of the way. We know that at present, from the close proximity view, there has not been any sign of any potential corruption in the project itself. Thank you very much.
Particulars regarding complaints against teachers involving sexual abuse of learners
54. Mrs A T Lovemore (DA) asked the Minister of Basic Education:
How many (a) complaints of sexual abuse of learners against teachers have been received by the SA Council for Educators (SACE) since 1 January 2010 and (b) of these complaints that SACE investigated to completion resulted in the dismissal of teachers?