Deputy Speaker, the answers to (a) - the first part of the question - on the number of cases of sexual abuse that had been received against teachers and processed during the years 2009-10, 2010-11 and 2011-12 and (b) - the second part of the question - on the number of teachers who had been expelled during the above-mentioned period are detailed below.
For 2009-10, 85 sexual abuse cases were received, and 58 were finalised. Twenty educators were struck off the roll immediately. Two educators were struck off for a certain period, after which they may reapply for admission to the profession. A total of 44 educators were also struck off, but their striking off was suspended for a certain period on condition they do not make themselves guilty of misconduct during the period of suspension.
In the year 2010-11, 78 cases were received, and 35 were finalised. There were 17 educators who were struck off the roll indefinitely, and four educators were struck off for a certain period, after which they may reapply for admission to the profession. A total of 14 educators were struck off, but their striking off was suspended for a period on condition that they do not make themselves guilty of misconduct during the suspension period.
In 2011-12, 126 sexual abuse cases were received and 43 finalised, whilst 38 educators were struck off the roll indefinitely. One educator was struck off the roll for a certain period, after which the teacher may reapply for admission, and four educators were struck off the roll, but their striking off the roll was suspended for a period of time, during which they were not supposed to make themselves guilty of misconduct. That is the answer. Thank you.
Deputy Speaker and Minister, we know that it is estimated that a woman is raped in South Africa every four minutes. We also know that as at the end of 2012, at least 92 of the 243 teacher-learner sexual abuse cases reported since 2010, which is 38% of the reported cases, had not been investigated. They were pending, and 41 cases had been pending for more than a year. These figures suggest, Minister, unfortunately that you have not been taking the scourge of sexual abuse and violence and the welfare of our children seriously.
Why has your oversight role with respect to the SA Council for Educators, SACE, not been exercised? Why have you allowed so many cases of alleged sexual abuse of our learners to go uninvestigated by SACE? What will the Minister now do to ensure that those responsible for this lack of investigation of alleged sexual abuse are held accountable?
Deputy Speaker, it is very insulting and unfortunate for a member of this House to have the audacity to refer to me saying "I", as if I am responsible for the cases myself. I must say that issues of rape and sexual abuse are matters which are very close to me, and I agree with the member that it is quite worrying that teachers could find themselves in these positions, when they are in positions of being trusted. It is, as I have said, a very unfortunate and quite worrying situation, in the light of the scourge of rape and sexual abuse in our country.
Having said that, as a Minister - concerned as I am, like her - I am also governed by law. So, we need to follow legal procedures, which sometimes are unfortunate; they let us down. I can say to the member that she can rest assured that it is one of the matters that I follow up on with SACE, but I am bound by laws and procedures. I cannot just make my rules and laws and force people not to follow procedures. I agree with her. It is actually a matter of concern. I can assure the member that I do, especially in such matters, take a personal interest but, as I say, I am also bound by laws and procedures that are set up on how such matters are to be handled.
Deputy Speaker, we have to acknowledge that the department has put measures in place to enhance the safety of learners and teachers at schools as part of increasing the participation rate in class. The question is: Can the Minister please elaborate on those measures and provide us with some feedback on how schools have experienced the same measures? Thank you.
Deputy Speaker, different measures have been put in place: measures of advocacy, raising awareness and also concrete reporting, so that we can support learners in instances where there have been issues of abuse. It has also been institutionalised to our curriculum. We have put different measures at our disposal in place to ensure that we can protect our children from abuse, especially from teachers, but also from learners and even from society. We even train our teachers to begin to identify children who are vulnerable and are possibly even molested elsewhere so that they can be supported and assisted at school. There are protocols that are sent to schools, but it is part of our curriculum also to raise awareness about steps that should be followed. Teachers are trained how to deal with these matters. So, when we work in the portfolio committee, members should bring along the protocols, which are available at all schools, of how to deal with these matters.
Deputy Speaker, through you to the hon Minister, I hear what you have said, and we appreciate that, but I think you have the wrong figures, and you need some advice. I checked this morning, and we have been able to find that it is only four cases that were actually finalised, and those who were found guilty were removed from the education system. I want to repeat that. It's only four. This therefore indicates that there is a problem at that particular level. Can you therefore indicate to us how and by when you would be able to deal with the incapacity at that particular level of the material? I mean, they do not have an office, for example, and there is the problem of the human material as well. Those are the kinds of problems that there are. Could the Minister kindly deal with that? [Time expired.]
LETONA LA THUTO YA MOTHEO: Nna ha ke tsebe hore na o bua ka mang, ntate Madisha. Ke bomang ba se nang diofisi? Ha ke re nna lesedi lena ke le nkile Lekgotleng la Matitjhere la Afrika Borwa, Sace. Ha a bue hore na yena lesedi leo a nang le lona o le nka kae. Jwale ha ke tsebe hore ke arabe ke reng. E re a itlhalose hore na lesedi la palo ya dinyewe tse nne o di nka kae mme nna ke tla hlalosa hore dipalo tsa ka ke di nkile Sace, eo e nang le kgobokano ya tlhahisoleseding. Ha ke tsebe hore re bua ka bomang jwale ba se nang le diofisi ha pele re ne re bua ka Sace, ntate Madisha. (Translation of Sesotho paragraph follows.)
[The MINISTER OF BASIC EDUCATION: I have no idea who you are referring to, hon Madisha. Which people do not have offices? I got the information from the South African Council for Educators, Sace. Let him say where he got his information from. I am not sure how to respond. Let him explain where he got the information about four cases from, and then I can state that I got my statistics from Sace, which has a collection of information. I am not sure who is being referred to as not having offices while initially we were talking about Sace, hon Madisha.]
Deputy Speaker and hon Minister, we know that children who suffer abuse are more likely to suffer depression, which negatively affects their schooling if left untreated. We also know that investment in psychological recovery is critical to break the cycle of violence. Yet, specialised counselling services for children are often limited. It is overburdened; there are long waiting periods, and often it is mainly located in urban areas. What do you envisage your department's role to be in addressing this problem? How do you ensure that children who have suffered abuse at school, especially in rural areas, receive psychological services? You have listed services that they do receive, but do they include psychological services in the school environment? Thank you.
Deputy Speaker, the hon member is right that in the system there are a lot of gaps in terms of psychosocial services. It is mainly in urban areas where we have the privilege of a number of nongovernmental organisations, NGOs, we partner with, that support teachers, but in rural areas it is a major problem. That is why we have struck a partnership with the Department of Social Development to ensure that it can assist us in dealing with this issue and training teachers in basic psychoanalysis or psychosupport. However, when it gets intense, we then refer them to social workers. So, we are aware of the gap. That is why we have this partnership with the Department of Social Development; to assist us in this regard. It is true that it is an area of great concern. In urban areas, we are very lucky that we have very strong NGOs that support schools in the event of the need for intense social services support. Position regarding enrolment of learners at further education and training colleges
95. Mr D A Kganare (Cope) asked the Minister of Higher Education and Training:
Whether he has found that further education and training colleges do not provide and cater for post matriculants, but enrol learners with no matric; if not, what is the position in this regard; if so, what are the relevant details? NO467E
Deputy Speaker, thanks. Thanks to the hon member for the question. The answer is simply that further education and training, FET, colleges offer a variety of programmes and qualifications with what we call Report 191, N4 to N6 programmes that are being offered in the fields of Business and Engineering Studies, which are postmatric qualifications at Level 5 of the National Qualifications Framework, NQF.
This is evident, for example, through the enrolment of 236 470 students in N4 to N6 programmes in FET colleges in 2012. For your information and the benefit of all the members, the department is also working on the development of a vocationally-oriented higher certificate in various areas at NQF Level 5, which will also be offered by FET colleges in the near future, with high articulation with the universities and the specific intention of increasing the number of postmatriculants who can access further education in a manner that can either give them immediate skills to go out and get a job, or to have qualifications that articulate, so that they can be able to access university if they want to.
So, it is incorrect to imply that we do not have postmatric qualifications. Yes, they are not enough. I will be the first one to admit, we still need to do more, but we do have them. Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker.
Deputy Speaker, thanks. Hon Minister, the impression is that those students who end up at FET colleges are those who could not be admitted or who had bad matric results and that is why they had to go to FET colleges. My question is: Is there a programme from your department to try and elevate the image of FET colleges to a level where all types of students can be attracted to attend FET colleges?
Deputy Speaker, I should have also clarified that some of the programmes in the FET colleges require a pass in Grade 9 in order to access the National Certificate Vocational, NCV. It should be the role of FET colleges to actually take those of our youngsters who do not want to follow an academic national certificate, but want to follow a vocational programme. Again on that - not because the emphasis is only on universities; what we are looking at now, in working with universities - it is incorrect that normally students who have done a National Certificate Vocational, if they want to go to university are not admitted. You only admit those who have gone the route of the National Senior Certificate. Vocationally-oriented matric must also enable those students who want to actually access university.
But, the other matter that you are talking about is the negative perceptions about FET colleges. We have got some very good FET colleges, by the way, in this country; while others not so good, which require a lot of attention, and we are aware of that. That is why we have done an audit of all 50 FET colleges just to get some baseline information to understand what is going on. But, we need to be working together to change this image and we have a very comprehensive turnaround strategy for FET colleges that we have started to implement: Bringing them closer to employers; raising the qualifications of lecturers; and giving more money to poor students to attend FET colleges. Those are some of the things that we also hope will continue to attract students, whilst at the same time we are improving quality, especially in those colleges that are not up to standard as we speak at this point in time. We hope hon Kganare will join that struggle to change this image. Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker.
Hon Deputy Speaker, can the hon Minister elaborate on what systems are in place to ensure that postmatriculants explore all available education options for them at FET colleges and universities? Thank you.
Deputy Speaker, thanks to the hon professor for the question. As I have said, part of expanding FET college opportunities will be for your Grade 9s who want to follow a vocational path, but also, clearly, we want to expand the capacity of the FET colleges to respond and provide access to the hundreds of thousands of matriculants that we produce each year who cannot go anywhere. That is why, as I've said, we are designing and looking at an NQF Level 5 dedicated higher certificate, including - by the way - those that will focus on maths and science as well. Such a certificate can also act as a bridging programme to uplift those students who have potential but might not have performed well in maths and science so that they can continue at college or access university and become maths and science teachers, or train as engineers and so on. This is definitely one of the priority areas for FET colleges to absorb as many of our matriculants as possible so that they are able to access skills. Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker.
Deputy Speaker, thank you. Mr Minister, one of the problems that was expressed to the portfolio committee on its oversight visits to FET colleges was that the reality is that in the same lecture room, you have students who have passed Grade 9, as you have referred, to those doing the NCV, and matriculants that are also doing the NCV Levels 2 and 3. Now, that just doesn't make any didactical sense and I think it doesn't help in any way to make FET colleges the institution of choice for students who passed matric. Does your Ministry and the department have any plans and processes to alleviate this problem and to actually get your Grade 9s and matriculants into separate classes? Thank you.
Deputy Speaker, yes, so that I am not accused of discrimination. Thank you very much to the hon Professor for the question. We have professors on both sides of the House, which is good for higher education.
The hon Lotriet is right. We are equally concerned about the fact that in some of our FET programmes, in fact, we have in one class someone who has passed Grade 9, and others Grades 10, 11 and 12. We are doing something about this. There is a task team that I appointed last year to look specifically into this question. If I'm not mistaken, I asked them to report by September last year, but I was not happy at all with the report because I did not think that what they came up with addressed this problem. There are lots of suggestions on the table that the task team is looking at. For instance, some people are talking about two types of NCV, one for Grade 9s and 10s and another one for those who have done Grade 12, which will be an accelerated shorter programme because we are dealing with people who are at a higher cognitive level. I am expecting this task team to report back before June. Hon Lotriet, you can also hold me to this. This is one report I would like to bring to the portfolio committee to say this is what we are doing.
However, part of dealing with that problem is the need to diversify the offerings at our FET colleges. We need to expand the types of programmes so that our students are not straitjacketed. At the moment, Deputy Speaker, some programmes that are offered at private FET colleges are not available in our public FET colleges, like sound engineering, and some specialised programmes in media. We want to build and introduce those so that there are a whole variety of choices such that we cater for every student with Grade 9 who wants to pursue a particular programme with the necessary measurement of their level of cognitive grasp of the programmes that are being offered. Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker.
Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker.
Nna pot?iso ya ka go Ministara e mabapi le "Practical Training". Re lemoga gore ... [My question to the Minister is with regard to Practical Training. We notice that ...]
... in technical colleges or whatever you call them, students do more theory than practical work. I can set an example of a learner who takes carpentry as a vocation. Now, when he comes out of... [Interjections.] No, I'm not talking about Malema. When he comes out of that institution, unfortunately, many of them are very good at defining things. They can define a chair, table and so on, but when they have to repair or produce a chair, it becomes a problem. My request is that this needs to be looked into so that there is a sufficient amount of practical work that they do while they are still studying at FET colleges. Maybe there could be a way of creating possibilities for apprenticeships so that when they go into the world of work, they definitely know what they are doing. [Interjections.]
Ke a leboga Ntate Kganyago. [Thank you Mr Kganyago.]
That is a very important matter that you are raising. In fact, I want to say that if there is one area through which we would like to be judged as a department it is this one. We are putting a lot of effort into this. In 2010, we signed a National Skills Accord with labour, business and community representatives at Nedlac to promote placement and the absorption of, especially, FET college graduates to be given 12 or 18 months - some require 18 months - to become apprentices. We have that agreement. Yesterday, Mr Mpontshane, I was in Nongoma with Ngonyama. We were opening an office of the sector education and training authority, Seta, at uMthashana FET College, the Nongoma Campus, the former vocational education college there, because we want to bring the Setas to the point where they are able to facilitate the placement of students in workplaces.
Deputy Speaker, when we think of workplaces, we must not only be thinking about the private sector, much as it is important. Municipalities are workplaces. If there is a police station, that's a workplace, where police cars can be fixed and you are able to train motor mechanics there. Our own slogan as a department is: "Together, we can turn every workplace into a training space". This is one thing I will require as part of my performance agreement with the college principals, that a successful FET college principal must be one who is able to forge a closer relationship with employers so that we can place our students.
Ngibona-ke Phini likaSomlomo engathi i-IFP iphatheka kabi uma ngithi bengiKwaNongoma. Hhayi impela bengikhona, bengigcwele laphaya. Ehhe, nginibheka nani ukuthi yiziphi lezi zindawana okufuneka siyoziqoqaqoqa futhi laphaya singuKhongolose.[Uhleko.] Ngiyabonga Phini likaSomlomo. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[I see, Deputy Speaker, that the IFP is worried when I say I was in KwaNongoma. Yes, of course I was there, I was there in full force. Yes, I was checking which areas we can win back in that area as the ANC. [Laughter.] Thank you, Deputy Speaker.]
Hon members, the time allocated for questions has expired. Outstanding replies received will be printed in Hansard.
See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.