Deputy Chair, I move without notice:
That the Council-
1) notes that on Tuesday, 28 August 2012 the hon Mr Alf Lees moved without notice that the R1,4 billion bailout to the Kingdom of Swaziland was unacceptable and asked that the House call on government to refuse financial assistance to Swaziland;
2) further notes that on the same day the Minister of Finance, Mr P Gordhan, issued a statement ... [Interjections.]
Hon Boroto, can you just hold on? Hon Van Lingen, I can see that you are standing up.
Deputy Chairperson, I rise on a point of order: We passed a motion in this matter last week and it cannot be raised again.
Hon Van Lingen, do me favour ... [Interjections.]
Deputy Chairperson, we have a ruling in this regard. [Interjections.]
Order! I was still talking.
I am sorry.
I was still talking to you in particular. [Interjections.] Okay, hon member, are you listening to me now? You have asked me to make a ruling. With regard to the matter proposed for discussion in the Council, I would then say that paragraph A does not prevent the Council from amending or resending any order, resolution or vote on the previous draft resolution. I hope that it is clear enough. Thank you. Hon Boroto, you may continue.
Deputy Chair, I was saying, ...
2) ... further notes that on the same day the Minister of Finance, Mr P Gordhan, issued a statement clarifying that -
(a) no amount of money had been paid by the government of South Africa to Swaziland;
(b) the negotiations between South Africa and Swaziland did not include R1,4 billion, as Mr Lees reported to the Council; and
c) the negotiations between South Africa and Swaziland were in fact over a possible loan of R2,4 billion, which had not been paid and no plans had been made to pay this amount or the R1,4 billion mentioned by hon Lees;
3) notes that the negotiations by authorities of the two countries are still under way;
4) takes this opportunity to reject with utter contempt the misleading statement made by hon Lees; and
5) resolves that hon Lees be asked to withdraw his statement and should he fail to do so, that this matter be referred to the Presiding Officers to investigate the factual inaccuracies in the motion moved by hon Lees and that they should report back to the House.
Order! Is there any objection to the motion? [Interjections.] I will do it again for you, Mrs Van Lingen. Is there any objection to the motion? [Interjections.] The majority said ... [Interjections.] Hon Van Lingen, hon Van Lingen, hon Van Lingen! [Interjections.] Either we reach an understanding or we don't. I am very serious about this. Don't you dare shout at me! I treat everybody in this Council the same. I am pleading with you, and not for the first time. Don't you dare shout at me! Hon member, do you have an objection?
Yes, Deputy Chairperson. [Interjections.]
Hon Boroto, you brought this up. Are you ... [Laughter.] Don't you dare ...
Sorry, hon Deputy Chair.
Don't you dare! Don't you dare! I am talking to an hon member. Do you understand? Hon Boroto, can you just read the first part?
Yes, Deputy Chair: "I hereby move without notice that the Order Paper be amended to include the resolution that the Council ..."
Order! She has proposed an amendment. [Interjections.] She proposed an amendment, so in that case ... Can you please sit down until I finish this sentence? Then I will ask you to make your objection or whatever. Please!
Chair, you know, that is my ...
Please!
Thank you.
If that be the case, I will ask the provinces to vote. Are all the people present?
Hon Chair, thank you for the opportunity. On a point of order: Could I please be informed in terms of which Rule the provinces are now voting?
Well, the decision will be taken in accordance with section 65. I am proceeding now. Please ...
Chairperson, this matter is actually very easy. In my understanding, we are busy with an item on the Order Paper - motions without notice. In terms of that, if there is an objection to a motion, then it's rejected. Am I right or am I wrong?
Order! I have just said something; right now: Let the provinces vote on this motion.
Chair, I can't start voting.
No, you can't stop me, hon member, you can't. Sit down, please.
Chair, with due respect ...
Chair, can I speak?
Sit down, please.
Can I speak?
Do me a favour and sit down. I haven't given you permission to speak, hon Bloem. I'm now allowing you to speak.
Chairperson, let's do the simple thing - majority rule, mama. Let's take the simple route - majority rule - and then this thing will be over.
Deputy Chair, there is a proposal for an amendment here, and if we are going to do that, it is proper that we do it according to the Rules. You have ruled on that, saying the provinces should vote. Can we please do that? Thank you.
Order! I'm proceeding. I am now proceeding. I am not going to take any hands; I am proceeding.
Question put: That the motion be agreed to.
IN FAVOUR: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape and North West.
AGAINST: Western Cape.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Hon Lees, I am not going to entertain any further discussion on this issue because voting has taken place. Thank you, sir. [Interjections.] You will what? No, repeat it. [Interjections.]
Deputy Chair, I'm saying to the hon member that we will approach the Chairperson after this. There's nothing wrong with that.
Which member?
The member over there.
Who is that member and what did he say? Hon member, with due respect, we are busy dealing with serious matters. So, if you want to converse with someone else, please do it softly. Thank you. Hon Lees, I rule you out of order.
Madam Chair, am I allowed to put my point of order?
Unfortunately we have voted. Can you take your seat, please? Can you put it in writing?
Madam Chair, I wish to raise a point of order, please.
Hon Lees, I am not going to entertain you any further. Thank you very much.
Chair, hon Lees wants to raise a point of order, but we have finalised the process. If there are problems, they know which processes to follow. Thank you, Chair.