Madam Acting Speaker, on assuming membership of this House, we solemnly undertook, in terms of section 4(1) of Schedule 2 of the Constitution, to "obey, respect and uphold the Constitution". We are now required to demand that President Zuma do the same, as he is bound by his oath of office, which requires him to be the first to "obey, respect and uphold the Constitution".
On Friday last week the President's office defied an order by the Supreme Court of Appeal to hand over the abbreviated transcripts of the terms that permitted criminal charges against him to be dropped or withdrawn. As his office and his lawyers act daily under his direct authority, the inescapable conclusion is that the President is illegally refusing to be bound by section 165(5) of the Constitution, which binds all persons to obey a judicial order. There are no exceptions.
Under the circumstances, Cope requests the Speaker that impeachment procedures against the President be instituted for defying a lawful judicial order. I ask that all members of the House support this plea. Thank you. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Madam Acting Speaker, maybe you should give the House direction. These serious allegations ...
What is your point of order?
I am asking for direction for the House. [Interjections.] Listen to the direction. [Interjections.] These serious allegations by hon Lekota should be brought by way of a substantive motion, not loose accusations against the President.
Thank you, hon Chief Whip. I have listened to the statement and we know the Rules of the House. When members make statements that are not factual, and they know those matters are supposed to be dealt with in the House in a particular way, and we will come back and deal with those. Please, can you give us that opportunity?
Madam Acting Speaker, may I address you on a point of order?
Yes.
The Chief Whip has had the opportunity to respond to two statements already. I would like you to rule on that, because I thought it was the duty of the Ministers in the House to respond to the statements, but the Chief Whip seems to be making long speeches, instead of being crisp about the points of order.
You see, after the first point of order, I allowed the member to continue, which indicates that the point of order was not proper. I allowed the member to continue. However, I have just commented now that there are definitely other Members' Statements that we need to hear, in order to see whether they are factual.
Madam Acting Speaker, may I address you on a point of order? [Interjections.]
What is your point of order?
Madam Acting Speaker, I seek clarity on what you have said. I want to know whether it is a ruling. You indicated that you had commented on what the Chief Whip had said, and you proceeded to say that the statements of members of this House must be factually accurate.
I know of no precedent in any parliament in the history of mankind in which Members of Parliament are held to the standard of truth. That is not the standard on which politics operates. If that is your ruling, Madam Acting Speaker, it is a revolutionary ruling, and I would like for you to give us clarity on what it is that you are actually saying. [Laughter.] Is it a ruling or a comment, and what does it mean for the future of this House?
I don't think I gave any ruling. [Interjections.] I didn't make a ruling. Can we continue?
Madam Acting Speaker, we need clarity on this matter, if you will just allow me to speak. If we are busy with Members' Statements, it can only be the Rules that direct the Members' Statements. Now, let me read from the Rules. I would like to refer the hon Chief Whip of the ANC to Rule 105(1), which provides:
A member, other than the Deputy President, a Minister (or a Deputy Minister) ... may be recognised by the (Presiding Officer) to make a statement on any matter for not more than one and a half minutes.
That is "on any matter".
I would like to contend, hon Acting Speaker, that that is indeed what was done by the two members of the opposition. If the ANC are uncomfortable, that is their problem, but there is ample opportunity in the Rules for the members of the executive who are present in this House to respond to statements made by members in the ranks of the opposition. Thank you.
Hon Acting Speaker ... [Interjections.] Hon Acting Speaker, through you to the hon member, the Rule does not mean that we must make unsubstantiated allegations ... [Interjections.] ... and come with a character assassination of the head of state. [Interjections.] That is not what the Rule allows you to do. [Interjections.]
Can we continue with the Members' Statements?