Chairperson and hon member, allow me to clarify an issue of terminology at the outset. The Presidential Nodal Zones were part of the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Programme, ISRDP, and the War on Poverty Campaign. With the configuration of government departments in 2009, these programmes and the nodal areas were integrated into the Comprehensive Rural Development Programme.
Regarding the first part of the question, studies that were conducted in the nodes by the Department of Co-operative Governance and Traditional Affairs and the Department of Social Development found that poverty levels were declining and the number of households with income for food had increased. An improvement in infrastructure service delivery was also indicated, with a number of the areas showing an increase in access to basic services.
Although successes could be seen, a number of challenges persisted, including co-ordination across government spheres and funding challenges in the ISRDP. Currently 23 district municipalities have been prioritised for attention, due to the prevalence of extreme poverty and underdevelopment there.
The July 2011 Cabinet lekgotla adopted various action plans to further improve service delivery in these priority areas. The action plans are led by identified departments responsible for co-ordination and service delivery of the agreed targets.
Furthermore, regarding the provision of social and economic infrastructure in the 23 district municipalities experiencing the largest number of backlogs in one of the strategic integrated projects contained in the infrastructure development plan adopted by Cabinet and the Presidential Infrastructure Co-ordinating Commission, PICC, districtwide infrastructure action plans are being developed in conjunction with all three spheres of government.
A national interdepartmental task team is collating and evaluating projects submitted by various district municipalities. In each district two catalytic infrastructure projects will be identified to kick-start sustainable social and economic development. We expect that this process will be completed by the end of May this year.
The entire Jozini Dam area falls within the Umkhanyakude District, which had previously been part of the ISRDP but is now one of the 23 prioritised districts. Various projects focusing on enterprise development, basic services and agricultural development are currently in various stages of implementation in that area. These include the revitalisation of several irrigation schemes in the area, such as the Makhatini irrigation scheme and the Ndumo schemes. The Ndumo A scheme has been nonfunctional for many years and the plan is to bring the first 150 hectares into production this year. Ndumo B currently has 150 hectares under production and an additional 200 hectares are to be brought into production in this financial year. It is anticipated that these projects will contribute to food security and small- farmer development in the area.
Ngiyabonga Sihlalo, Mongameli wezwe, Nxamalala, njengoba kade kushiwo ukuthi uma omasipala beyizingxenye zalolu hlelo lokuthi babheke ngeso lokhozi - iyabonakala imiphumela futhi iba ngcono kulabo masipala. Ingabe lukhona yini uhlelo lokuthi uma abanye omasipala beba ngcono kuphinde kufakwe omunye umasipala ukuze sibone nangakithi ukuthi luyeza lolu hlelo, ingabe nathi sisemgqeni wokuthola le ntuthuko nalolu sizo? Ngiyabonga Sihlalo.
UMONGAMELI WERIPHABHULIKHI: Ngiyabonga Sihlalo, impela lolu hlelo engikhuluma ngalo la, wuhlelo olwenziwe ezindaweni ezibonakele ukuthi zinezidingo kakhulu nalapho okwakukade kunezinhlelo ezingasenzeki khona. Intuthuko esiyenza kuzo zonke izindawo ngeke igcine kulezo zindawo kuphela, izodlulela phambili nakwezinye ezingomakhelwane. Ngakho-ke uma sekubonakele ukuthi kukhona okwenzekayo komakhelwane, omasipala abaseduze abangomakhelwane abathembe ngoba angeke sigcogcome, sigxume sishiye omunye umasipala ehluphekile siye komunye. Siyosuka komunye ngezinhlelo singenele komunye ngoba injongo ukuthi lonke izwe lakithi libe nentuthuko efanayo ikakhulu komasipala.
Yingakho bengithe ekuqaleni nalabo masipala okuthiwa abakwazi ukuzimela ngoba bengenalutho sizobe sibuka nakubona ukuthi kuhamba kanjani. Ngakho lunga elihloniphekile, alibekhona ithemba ukuthi uma ningomakhelwane balabo esikhuluma ngabo lokhu kuzofika nakinina. Phela isiZulu sithi, impandla ikhwela ngamanhlonhlo - izinwele aziveli ziqothuke zonke ngesikhathi esisodwa. Iyeza nakini intuthuko. [Uhleko.] Ngiyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Mr D D GAMEDE: Thank you, Chairperson and President of the Republic, Nxamalala. As has been said, the municipalities should be part of this programme of monitoring, as the results are evident and there's improvement at these municipalities. Is there a programme in place that will ensure that another municipality is included if the other municipalities have improved, in order to see that this programme also comes to our area? Are we next in line to get this development and assistance? Thank you, Chairperson.
Thank you, Chairperson. Indeed, the process that I'm talking about is the one that has been implemented in the areas that were identified as those that needed more service delivery and where development was no longer taking place. The development taking place in all these areas will not end there, but will proceed to other, neighbouring areas. Therefore, if it is evident that some development is taking place in neighbouring areas, the surrounding municipalities should be hopeful, because we won't hop about and leave out a municipality which needs development. We will move from municipality to municipality to follow some programmes, because our aim is that the whole country, especially the municipalities, will develop at the same pace.
That is why in the beginning I said that we would also monitor those municipalities that could not function on their own because they had no facilities, to see how they were doing. Therefore, hon member, there should be hope that if you are a neighbour of those municipalities that we are talking about, this will also come to you. It is said that Rome was not built in a day. The development is also coming to you. [Laughter.] Thank you.]
Thank you, hon President, for the reply. The Provincial Week that we undertook in KwaZulu-Natal last week included a visit to Umkhanyakude. I can confirm that Umkhanyakude District Municipality briefed us that they were finally on the road to gaining access to water from Jozini Dam - something that has been a struggle for almost 18 years.
My question is based on what they told us in Umkhanyakude concerning the issuing of the licence. I think the national government could be playing a greater role to make sure that the water licence is attained. Related to that is the issue of the Umhlathuze Water Services Board, which is already testing the water from boreholes in those areas. Will the Presidential Co- ordinating Council have a greater role in facilitating and speeding up the getting of the licence to access water in Jozini?
It is not just a matter of solving the Jozini or Umkhanyakude problem. The Presidential Infrastructure Co- ordinating Commission, PICC, has in fact discussed two aspects of this issue very seriously.
Firstly, as we have embarked on the national plan for infrastructure and invited investors to participate, we have discussed the issue of the time it takes to issue licences. We have also discussed other factors, because we are trying to make it easier to do business in South Africa. We have discovered that at times investors who want to come and do business here find it difficult because they are sent from pillar to post by the bureaucracy. Therefore we have said that one of the areas we must work on is the question of licences for water usage. The Minister of Water and Environmental Affairs is working on this. It is not just about licences for business but also for communities - the people who really deserve and own this. So, Umkhanyakude is part of this and it is a matter that we are addressing.
I also heard the hon member saying that the people at Jozini had been struggling for the last 18 years. Yes, I agree there have been 18 years of democracy, but they struggled without water for decades before that. The Jozini Dam is one of the biggest in the country and has been there for decades, but the people who live near it do not have water. It is an age- old problem, which we are now resolving. I am very proud that in 18 years there has been progress, and the people themselves told you, when you were there as MPs, that the matter is now being addressed. We are together, therefore, in addressing the broader issue and the specific time to be taken with licensing.
Ngithokoze Sihlalo. [Thank you, Chairperson.]
We really appreciate the progress that there has been in many of the areas that were declared Presidential Nodal Zones. During the NCOP programmes of Taking Parliament to the People and Provincial Week, young people, women and people with disabilities in particular made a passionate plea for specific programmes that would assist in empowering them to break the historical discord of generational poverty, which they endure on a daily basis.
I just want to check with His Excellency whether there are monitoring programmes in any form. If there are, do such monitoring programmes really look into the issues of the groups that I have mentioned: the youth, women and people with disabilities?
Certainly our programme of performance monitoring and evaluation is inclusive. It is paying very specific attention to youth, women and people with disabilities, particularly because of the historical problems and challenges they faced. We are, in fact, developing detailed programmes to address those issues that have never been addressed before. So, it is part of the programme to ensure that when development enters an area nobody is left out for any reason. Everyone should be included and therefore the programme will certainly address the issue of women, youth and people with disabilities.
PCC programmes of President's Co-ordinating Council to address service delivery protests, and co-ordination of job opportunities in three spheres of government
4. Mrs N W Magadla (ANC) asked the President of the Republic:
(1) Whether the President's Co-ordinating Council has any programmes in place to address the challenges of protests that occur as a result of the lack of service delivery by the distressed municipalities; if not, why not; if so, what (a) programmes and (b) measures are in place to ensure that such challenges are addressed;
(2) what are the outcomes of the President's Co-ordinating Council meeting that was held on 28 March 2012 in ensuring that there is co-ordination of job opportunities within the three spheres of government? CO209E
The Presidential Co-ordinating Council is a co-ordinating structure and therefore does not have programmes of its own. It co-ordinates and promotes the co-operation of the three spheres of government. However, we do discuss issues of concern, such as local government protests, with a view to finding solutions, working together.
For example, the PCC meeting held on 26 November 2011 received a report from the Western Cape, raising concerns around violent service delivery protests and what was described as "poor policing" during some of these protests. The meeting resolved that while we respected an individual's and a community's right to voice their concerns, we condemned the violence and destruction of property in affected municipalities.
The very existence of the PCC is to identify and address service delivery challenges by providing a forum in which we can identify good practices. The Justice, Crime Prevention and Security Cluster was requested to report to the PCC on how to solve this problem. This will be done in forthcoming meetings of the PCC.
Hon member, you refer to a PCC meeting convened on 28 March 2012. I assume you are referring to the one of 6 March 2012. The Minister of Economic Development gave a progress report on the infrastructure development plan which was announced during the state of the nation address. As members know, the plan is aimed at taking forward government's fight against inequality, unemployment and poverty, and it covers all provinces. The premiers are members of the Presidential Infrastructure Co-ordinating Commission and will be kept abreast of implementation through this forum.
A report on job creation was submitted to the PCC meeting of 11 October 2011 by the Minister in the Presidency: Performance Monitoring and Evaluation as well as Administration in the Presidency, and premiers provided a provincial perspective in this regard. This followed the President's declaration of 2011 as the year of job creation.
Chairperson, my question was covered by the President's response.
Chairperson, I will speak because I have a brilliant voice ... [Inaudible.] [Interjections.]
No, we have to record that. There, your microphone is on now.
Thank you, Chairperson. President, don't you think that the service delivery protests that are going on around the country pose a serious threat to the stability of our country, especially if they carry on in this violent manner? Don't you think they pose a threat to the security of our country?
Chair, we should perhaps look at this from a number of angles. We are an open and constitutional democracy where citizens are allowed to express themselves, and I think all citizens are aware of that. I also take it that when people protest, they know they are exercising that right.
It is important that all of us, as citizens, appreciate that. It is not a matter to be appreciated by Members of Parliament only, or government only. It should be appreciated by all of us, if we understand and appreciate our freedom fully. I don't think some people should occupy a different place and understand our freedom, democracy and rights differently from others.
Moving on from the point that the hon member is raising - whether these protests pose a threat to the country, or could lead to instability - when we commemorated Human Rights Day, I made this point very seriously. All of us have a responsibility to appreciate our rights as individuals, as collectives and as a nation. Equally, we have a responsibility to appreciate the rights of others, so that when we protest, when we advance our plight in regard to our rights, our protests don't interfere with the rights of other people.
It is also important that we all participate in educating others about this because, besides the fact that our people are highly aware and conscious, we are one of the few democracies where the masses participate in activities regarding their rights. I don't think you find this in many countries. Although people view this negatively at times - they regard it as a sign of failure - this is what our people do. It is absolutely their right.
However, that right must go with responsibility, so that the impression that the hon member is talking about is not created. By protesting in the wrong way, you create the impression that there is a problem in the country, that there is instability. That is not right. You have got to protest within the framework of the law and of the Constitution. At the heart of it is your right. You are protesting to advance your right to have x, y and z. But other citizens have the right not to have your protest impact negatively on them. This is a matter that needs to be addressed very seriously.
I am aware that ours is a culture that comes from the old days of apartheid. Apartheid never listened to the people and never allowed them to protest. Consequently we developed this culture that whenever we want something we must fight for it. I think it's going to take time to change. In a sense, this is a feeling left over from the way issues were dealt with in the past. We should not create the wrong impression, that there could be instability in the country. Instability is experienced by countries that have oppressive laws. The very fact that you are repressive will cause people to react to that situation. We have no reason to think about instability in this country. I think people are just protesting.
However, at times, protests are coupled with a feeling of entitlement. People think they can sit down and government must just provide. They don't participate in the processes of changing the quality of their lives together. Hon members here, as the public representatives of those very citizens, need to provide a lot of education on this matter. That education needs to take place. We must not create the impression that there is a threat to stability in the country, not at all.
What I have heard is that in some cases these protests are due to specific issues that people are confronted with in a particular area. In some areas people are demanding development and service delivery. They are able to say that councillors in a particular area are not doing anything. There has been no protest alleging that this country, in general, is failing. There hasn't been. Therefore I think we should disabuse ourselves of the impression that there are conditions in this country that could create instability.
If you compare what South Africa has done in 18 years to what countries that have been free for decades have done, you will see the difference. The amount of progress we have made is phenomenal. In fact, many countries acknowledge that there is no country on this continent which has done what South Africa has done in 18 years. [Applause.]
As public representatives we need to conscientise people about this. I don't think we should be the ones to tell people to create instability. On what basis would we do that? You can look from Cape to Cairo, from Morocco to Madagascar and you will find no other country with a scorecard to rival South Africa's scorecard of what we have done since we decolonised this country. [Applause.]
I think it is important to understand the protests that arise in their proper context. The last one I saw was in Rustenburg. It arose because there was a specific issue - an electricity cut. It was not because there were problems that could have led to instability in the country. People were irritated by the power cut. So, there was a very specific issue. That doesn't suggest instability.
I know that some "gifted" people love to come and provide an incorrect analysis. I'm just quoting the Rustenburg case because it is the latest one. It was very specific. Because the people had had their electricity cut, they were demanding to know what they were supposed to cook with. They were angry. You can't make that into a national problem that could lead to instability. I think we should disabuse ourselves of that notion.
You have an obligation, as public representatives, to help people understand what has happened in this country. I think that is very important. [Applause.]
Chairperson, I thank the President for the wonderful answer. My question is with regard to the co-ordinating council, where the premiers meet, and you mentioned the dates on which they have met. However, when you check the conveyor belt - that is, the co-ordination of job opportunities - it seems it is not functioning, because when you go to the different municipalities, you find that the same key posts are not filled. That means there are defects in the conveyor belt. Will the President take any further initiatives to oil this conveyor belt, because it seems to be rusty? [Laughter.]
Thank you, Deputy Chair. Certainly we will do that. We will look at the conveyor belt and oil it. [Laughter.]
Earlier, in response to a different question, I said that governments operate in a particular way. The wheels of government, universally, turn very slowly. This is a critical point and one that I have been making ever since I was given this task - one of the things that frustrates government is this slow turning of wheels. That is why I have been saying we should do things differently. That is why I introduced Performance Monitoring and Evaluation. That is why the PCC is not just a body to sit, talk and go away, nor is it a talk shop. It is there to ensure that we put structures in place that are going to be effective, precisely to address the point we are addressing.
If you consider the lifetimes, or terms, of government and the period in which we have undertaken to change the manner in which government works, you couldn't have perfect functioning by now. However, I think the fact that the directors-general now report on a continuous basis indicates that we are getting there. The conveyor belt is being oiled! [Interjections.] It is going to move faster, I can guarantee you.
In fact, from time to time I visit areas unannounced, precisely to discover what is happening in those areas. I am going to continue doing so because I don't believe in just getting reports saying that everything is going well. If you were taught how to write a composition or essay at school, you can write any report, and it means nothing. If you were given the instruction to write something about Table Mountain, you could write a wonderful report. Just because the report tells you everything is fine, does not mean it is, in fact, fine. That is why, whether at the national, provincial or local government level, they know that I can arrive there any day.
In one place that I visited I found the mayor sleeping ... [Interjections.] ... in bed, just after lunch. I asked for the mayor and intimated that I wanted to go to his home. The secretary jumped up and down and said they would call the mayor, but he was not very well. The mayor came and he was not sick! All we could see was that the fellow had been resting - that's all! [Laughter.]
So, all I am saying is that oiling the conveyor belt is not going to be an overnight affair, but we are getting there. I'm highly committed to making government work differently. [Applause.]
Deputy Chairperson and hon President, last week during our Provincial Week visit the SA Local Government Association, Salga, raised the very important issue of the security of our councillors. Salga indicated that if they wanted to assist, they couldn't. For example, it happened that the families of about 10 councillors - ward councillors - were made homeless in violent protests, which means they lost everything. This was like a disaster, but the council could not intervene, and provincial and national government are not doing anything about it. When there is a natural disaster in a specific community, everybody rushes in to assist, but councillors are excluded from such support, even when what has happened to them is like a disaster.
What security do we give councillors at this point? How can the council intervene, because when the Auditor-General looks at those issues specifically, he might give them a disclaimer because they utilised money in an incorrect way? Let us check what national government is doing to make sure that councillors are secure and are assisted in the process.
We are aware that this is the situation we are living in, because we have seen it happening throughout the whole country. Councillors are left homeless, but local government cannot intervene, provincial government cannot intervene, and national government is not doing anything about it. Now, we wanted to check with you, hon President, how we can deal with this matter.
Deputy Chair, let me just correct one thing. We should not equate the destruction of property during protest action with a disaster caused by a storm or flood. It is not the same. We need to correct that first of all. Let us pose this question as an independent question, without aligning it with or comparing it to a disaster, so that we can answer the question fairly. This is because a disaster is a disaster - storms or floods come, houses are swept away, and government has to respond. We actually have a ministerial committee waiting for such events to happen, because we know they will come at some point.
The protests where people display that anger that I talked about earlier and burn the houses of councillors - which is not legal - come at a particular time. The weaknesses in the way people deal with things, which I talked about earlier, are a phenomenon that has now become visible.
What are the reasons? The reasons that cause people to be so angry with the council are not all the same. For example, as I said, I went unannounced to a number of areas. I found councillors who were "lost". When I asked what was happening, the people would say that they were seeing that councillor for the first time. They had never seen that person before. So, there are different reasons behind particular communities having a particular attitude towards a particular councillor. In some cases, the reasons for people taking particular actions are political concerns.
I don't think we should have a one-size-fits-all approach to dealing with this issue. However, I agree that we must find a way to deal with it, as it has become an issue. We need to consider at all levels how we are going to deal with it. Generally, when such things happen, the police deal with the matter.
Of course, the reality is that the councillor is left homeless. What do you do? I think we need to look into that question, but we cannot look into it in isolation. What is it that makes people so angry? Is it a problem in them, as a result of that "culture" I talked about earlier, or is it something else? Can you remove certain social and human factors? Is it that some people have an axe to grind with a particular council for reasons that we might not know about? It may not be about delivery; it may be for other reasons. So, we have to apply our interventions according to what is really happening there. I agree it is a matter that we now need to look at. In the recent past it has become clear that the security of councillors is a problem.
Now, let us consider which of the councillors have security problems. Is it a national thing? All councillors? All of them, in their thousands? I don't think so. I think these problems affect particular areas and particular councillors. Other councillors work very well with their communities. In fact, some communities will say, "We hope you are not going to change our councillor." So, things are not exactly the same everywhere.
It is a matter that we need to look at from a particular point of view and we actually need to discover the root of what makes people go to that extent. Is it thuggery? Is it anything specific?
Once we establish the facts, then we will know what the remedy is. If we just took a general view, saying that because so many councillors have gone through this problem, we have to provide security to everyone, I don't think we would be hitting the nail on the head. We must discover what is behind each incident.
This august House pays visits to and actually goes into communities, so it also has a responsibility to help discover what the real issues are. Go to the councillors and find out what it is that makes people so angry. Once we know the cause, we can tackle the problem.
International nuclear energy production agreements
5. Mrs E C van Lingen (DA) asked the President of the Republic:
With reference to all international agreements on nuclear energy production signed by South Africa in the past three years, (a) with which (i) country and (ii) companies were these agreements made, (b) what are the commitments made by each party in each specified agreement, (c) which provinces will these agreements affect and (d) what are the relevant details of such effects?