Trade, Industry and Competition BRRR: discussion; Selection of NLC Chairperson process

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Trade, Industry and Competition

17 November 2020
Chairperson: Mr D Nkosi (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

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The Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry met via a virtual platform to discuss the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report on the Department of Trade Industry and the Economic Development Department until March 2020 and the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition from the commencement of the 2020/21 financial year.

The only party to provide input (the ANC) presented its proposals for the conclusions and recommendations of the report but the Committee did not discuss the input. All parties were requested to provide input in order that the report could be completed at the following meeting.

The Committee Members were informed that the Minister of Trade, Industry and Competition had considered the applications for the position of Chairperson of the National Lotteries Commission and presented the National Assembly with three names to consider for the position: Rev Frank Chikane, Prof Thuli Madonsela and Dr Barney Pityana. The entire list of candidates was provided to Committee Members in order that they could assess the appropriateness of the three candidates selected by the Minister.

The Minister requested a response in terms of the preferred candidate by 30 November 2020. The Committee determined that the interviews would take place on 24 November 2020 in order to complete the process by that date. A decision as to whether to hold the interviews in person or whether they would be conducted via a virtual platform was left in abeyance until it was determined whether all Members and candidates were able to travel and did not suffer from co-morbidities. The preference was for in-person interviews.

A closed meeting would take place on the morning of 24 November 2020 to consider the questions to be put to candidates before interviews commenced at 10:15. The interviews would be open to the public. The Chairperson announced that the Committee process would be concluded on 26 November 2020 so that the National Assembly could consider the recommendation by the Committee prior to the House going into recess on 30 November 2020.

Meeting report

Opening Remarks
The Chairperson greeted the Committee Members and everyone who was connected on the online platform.

The Secretary confirmed that the meeting was quorate and representative. He presented the agenda, which was adopted without amendment.

The Chairperson requested the secretariat to present the draft BRRR.

Consideration of the Budgetary Review and Recommendation Report (BRRR)
The Committee Secretary stated that he had circulated the draft report and that he had requested contributions to the Conclusions and Recommendations but only the ANC had responded at that point.

The Chairperson requested the secretariat to take the process forward.

The Content Secretary explained that the Report would look different to the reports of other years as it reported on the Department of Trade Industry (dti) and the Economic Development Department (EDD) until March 2020 and reported on the Department of Trade, Industry and Competition (dtic) from the commencement of the 2020/21 financial year.

Discussion
The Chairperson indicated that the Committee would look at the consolidation of the conclusion and recommendations and finalisation of the report on Thursday 19 November at 12:00 but he called for comments on the report as it stood.

Ms Y Yako (EFF) stated that the report read like a dti report and not like a report on the two Departments. What was the final date on which input could be made by the political parties?

Mr M Cuthbert (DA) asked if there would be a meeting of the Committee the following day.

The Chairperson reiterated that the meeting to finalise the BRRR would be on Thursday 10 November 2020.

Mr Mbuyane suggested that all parties should submit all input before the end of the current day so that the Members could consider the inputs prior to the meeting on Thursday.

The Chairperson concurred.

The Secretary stated that the Report would be finalised on Thursday afternoon and so concluding remarks and recommendations could be submitted by Wednesday.

He suggested that the Committee should consider the conclusions and recommendations submitted by the ANC in the current meeting to save time at Thursday’s meeting.

The Chairperson requested Ms Yako to elaborate on her concerns about the Report as she had mentioned that it seemed like a dti Report.

Ms Yako stated that she needed more time to consider the report before she could really make comments. She also wanted to consider submitting inputs from the EFF.

The Secretary again suggested that the Committee consider the ANC inputs. He stated that additional inputs from other political parties could be accepted until end of business the following day. That would still give the secretariat time to incorporate those inputs in the draft Report before the meeting to finalise the Report.

The Chairperson requested the Secretary to flight the inputs provided by the ANC in respect of the conclusions and recommendations. He requested Mr S Mbuyane (ANC) to present the ANC’s input.

Presentation of ANC conclusions and recommendations
Mr Mbuyane presented the conclusions. The first conclusion welcomed the clean audits achieved by the dti and EDD and the progress made by SABS in its audit report. Secondly, the Committee welcomed the merger of the two Departments.

Mr W Thring (ACDP) made a grammatical correction.

Mr Mbuyane continued with point 3: The Committee welcomed the decisive measures by the government to stem the spread of Covid-19 virus but noted that there was a need to ramp up the economic recovery.

Pt 4. The Committee welcomed the development of Master Plans.

Pt 5. The Biz-portal developed by the Companies and Intellectual Property Commission (CIPC), in a bid to ensure ease of business by offering online company registration, was welcomed but should be modified to facilitate registration and certification of companies offering personal protective equipment and other businesses linked to the pandemic of Covid-19.

Pt 6. The Liquor Amendment Bill and the Companies Amendment Bill had not yet reached the Committee and the slow progress of legislation was lamented.

Pt 7. The Committee welcomed the fact the dtic had retained a strong balance sheet and would continue to implement development.

Pt 8. The Committee welcomed the support of the economy by the dtic through its various incentive programmes.

Pt 9. An Executive decision had to be made regarding the status of the B-BBEE Commission as it was critical that the Commission be given independence from the dtic.

Pt 10. The dtic had to play an active role in the investments garnered by the President during his campaign to raise investments in SA.

Pt 11. The Committee welcomed the support that dtic gave to the National Regulator for Compulsory Specifications (NRCS) and the SA Bureau of Standards (SABS). However, there should be closer monitoring and an early warning system to warn of problems arising in those entities.

Recommendations
The Minister should ensure that the dtic:
1. monitored and supported the NRCS and SABS.
2. ensured compliance with localisation in all aspects of the Recovery Plan of the Government and engaged other ministries to ensure such compliance.
3. followed up on commitments made at the earlier President’s investments conference.
4. fast-tracked the tabling of legislation as soon as it had been accepted by Cabinet.
5. should explore the possibility of ensuring the independence of the B-BBEE Commission through the necessary legislative changes to the B-BBEE Act.

The Chairperson determined that a discussion would follow at the next meeting.

Mr Mbuyane proposed that the Committee postpone engaging with the matter until all inputs had been received. Ms Motaung seconded the proposal.

Mr Thring agreed with the proposal. He said that he might disagree with one or two of the points but it would not be proper to engage on the ANC’s contribution. It would be more appropriate to engage when there was a final draft or proposed report.

The Chairperson agreed and concluded the discussion on the BRRR by reminding Members that additional conclusions and recommendations had to be submitted to the secretariat by the close of business on the following day.

Selection of NLC Chairperson process
Introduction by the Chairperson
The Chairperson stated that the matter had been referred to the Committee via the Announcements, Tablings and Committee Report of the National Assembly of Monday 16 November 2020:

Appointment of Chairperson of National Lotteries Commission (1) A letter, dated 12 November, has been received from the Minister of Trade, Industry and Competition, requesting that the National Assembly makes recommendations regarding the suitability of any or all of the submitted names of nominees for appointment as Chairperson of the National Lotteries Commission, in terms of section 3 (3) of the Lotteries Act, 1997 (Act No 57 of 1997). Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry for consideration and report.

The Chairperson stated that the documentation had been forwarded to Committee Members by the Secretary. The following three persons had been identified as candidates for the position:
Rev Frank Chikane, Prof Thuli Madonsela and Dr Barney Pityana.

He added that the Minister had also enclosed a list of the names of all applicants for the position. He had requested that the National Assembly provide him with its preferred candidate by 30 November 2020. That meant that the Committee would have to arrange for the interviews and finalisation of the matter by that date. Discussion had taken place in the Committee as to whether the interviews would take place in person or whether it would need to be conducted via a virtual platform.

The process of finalising the date for interviews and the date for setting questions had to be determined by the Committee. He repeated that the documentation had been circulated to Members.

The Chairperson requested the Secretary to inform Members of processes that needed to be determined by Members in the current meeting.

Secretarial input
The Secretary stated that he had received notification of the Minister’s request from the Speaker of the National Assembly once the matter had been published in the ATC Report. The Committee had to look at the Committee Programme and consider how to implement the necessary processes before the deadline. It would demand an adjustment of the Committee Programme over the following two weeks.

He stated that the Committee had to have a discussion on whether to interview the candidates in-person or via a digital platform. That had to be finalised at the current meeting. He proposed dates: interviews should take place on 24 November 2020, if all candidates were available on that date. He would have to check with the candidates. He also suggested a meeting on 26 November 2020 to finalise the recommendation to the House which would have to approve that recommendation before forwarding it to the Minister.

The Secretary stated that it was also necessary for the Committee to meet in order to determine the questions that would be put to the candidates. He suggested that that meeting take place on the morning of 24 November 2020 prior to the holding of the interviews that day. He assured Members that the secretariat would develop draft questions and provide them on the morning. Committee Members could accept or adapt the questions or reject the questions and propose their own.

He assured Members that all administrative matters would be taken care of by the secretariat.

The Chairperson asked Members for comments and questions about the NLC process.

Ms Yako asked whether the Minister would be invited to address the Committee and to explain why he had chosen the three applicants that he had chosen. She also would like the Minister to explain what he intended to do about the rest of the board.

Mr Cuthbert noted that the interviews were to be held in exactly one week. What opportunity would Members have to develop questions? He noted that in the email that Corruption Watch had sent to the Members, the organisation had recommended that all candidates who applied be named so that the process was 100% transparent and legitimate.

The Secretary noted that one of the attachments in the email sent to all Members contained the names of all applicants. Time had been made available on 24 November 2020 for questions. There would be transparency in the process but there was a need for confidentiality when developing the interview questions.

The Chairperson stated that two dates were recommended: 24 November 2020 for the development of questions and interviews and 26 November 2020 for finalising the process and adopting the report to be sent to the House.

Mr Cuthbert was unclear as to whether the interviews were to be in-person or virtual interviews.

The Secretary responded that he had proposed a date for the interviews but the Committee would have to decide on the format of the interviews. He repeated his proposal.

The Chairperson noted that the ‘long list’ and the ‘short list’ as determined by the Minister had been circulated to Members by the Secretary. The Committee had to decide on the format for the interview. A meeting would be held on 26 November 2020 to conclude the process. He requested that the Secretary check with each Committee Member as to whether that person had co-morbidities, was in quarantine, etc. or whether each person could attend an in-person interview session. He proposed that first option would be an in-person meeting, but Members should inform the secretariat if they could attend in person.

Mr Thring said that the ACDP would prefer a face-to-face meeting, but he accepted that a decision would have to be made based on co-morbidities. He asked whether the Committee would allow for impromptu questions in response to the situation in the interviews.

The Secretary said that the Committee would agree to questions but an interview was organic and would usually require a follow-up question to a specific question. The Committee would have to determine whether that would be okay.   

The Chairperson stated that it was would be acceptable to ask the same question in different words. He would not expect Members to read out the question as precisely as it had been written down. Members would be treated as mature adults and given space for variation, but the meaning would have to remain the same.

Mr Mbuyane read section 3(3) of the Lotteries Act where it stated:” … and the relevant
committee of the National Assembly has made recommendations to the Minister in relation thereto after
a transparent and open process of considering persons so nominated…” and asked about the constitutionality of the Minister ‘s process. How should Committee deal with it? He asked for clarity on whether it was proper for the Committee to receive three names as that differed from the Act.

He also requested the secretariat to develop a health questionnaire which would indicate the availability of Members and candidates to attend a face-to-face meeting.

The Chairperson said that dates had been agreed upon and there would be further preparations to finalise all matters in that regard. The secretariat would look at the possibility of an in-person or virtual meeting. He asked about the question raised by Ms Yako regarding an engagement with the Minister. Did the secretariat believe that was possible?

In response to Mr Cuthbert’s comment, he thought that it was important to note the comment of the NGO but there was a lot of comment on the matter in social media and the Committee had to be sure that it was independent of influence.

Ms T Mantashe (ANC) informed the Chairperson that her network had gone down and she had been offline for the entire discussion. She asked the Chairperson to repeat what had been said.

The Chairperson obliged.

The Secretary stated that the Committee Assistant would contact all Members and he would contact the candidates. He would inform the Committee on Thursday 19 November 2020 so that final decisions could be made. He reminded Members that the Committee was required to be quorate; not all Members had to attend.

Ms Yako asked if the Committee could ask the Minister to engage with Members on his reason for selecting the three candidates.

The Secretary stated that he would contact the Minister’s office and try to arrange such a meeting. He added that Annexure A in the documentation provided the full process that the Minister had followed in coming to a decision to nominate the three candidates.

The Chairperson stated that all Members had just received the documents so that could be discussed at the next meeting, i.e. Thursday, 19 November.

He informed Mr Cuthbert that there would be no committee meeting the following day.

Committee Programme
The Secretary indicated that the latest programme included the dates of 24 and 26 November 2020 to accommodate the interview process in line with the Minister’s request for finalisation by 30 November.

He said that Thursday’s meeting could commence at 13:00 or 13:30, depending on the availability of Members.

He proposed that that on 24 November 2020, the Committee could commence with a closed session at 08:30, in Room 249 in the National Assembly Building if it were a face-to-face meeting, to discuss the questions to be put to the candidates. The interviews would commence at 10:15.

On 25 November, the Committee could consider the candidates and on 26 November 2020, the Committee could finalise the recommendations and finalise the report to the National Assembly. That would be the last meeting for the quarter as Parliament went on recess on 30 November 2020.

He added that some items would have to fall off the current programme owing to the NLC process but they would be put back on the programme the following term.

Mr Cuthbert stated that he accepted the programme

Mr Thring asked for start time on 24 November 2020.

The Chairperson stated that the closed meeting would begin at 8:30.

Minutes
The minutes of 28 October 2020, 3 November 2020, 10 November 2020 were adopted unanimously with no amendments.

Concluding remarks
The Chairperson stated that the meeting on Thursday would start at precisely 13:30 and should not take too long as it was about the finalisation of the BRRR and the finalisation of details regarding the interviews for the Chairperson of the NLC.

The meeting was adjourned.


 

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