DPSA, CPSI, PSC, DPME, Brand SA & Stats SA Q1, 2 & 3 2022/23 Performance; with Deputy Ministers

Public Service and Administration

22 February 2023
Chairperson: Mr T James (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

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In a virtual meeting with the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration, the Department of Public Service and Administration (DPSA); Public Service Commission (PSC); National School of Government (NSG); and the Centre for Public Service and Innovation (CPSI) presented their quarterly performances from the first to the third quarter of the 2022/2023 financial year. The Portfolio Committee also received presentations on the first to third quarter performances of the 2022/2023 financial year from the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation (DPME); Brand South Africa; and Statistics South Africa.

The Deputy Minister of Public Service and Administration said that the reports from the entities had already been tabled. The reports indicated the vacancy rates and how many vacant positions were filled across the various departments. The reports also showed the performance of the targets the various departments had set out for the 2022\2023 financial year.

The DPSA presented that it had achieved 91% of its targets in the 1st quarter, it achieved 78% of its targets in the 2nd quarter, and in the 3rd quarter, 81% of the targets were achieved. The Department had 2.2% representation of people with disability in the first quarter and 2.19% representation in the second and third quarters. The DPSA had projected that its vacancy rate would be reduced to 12% by the end of the financial year, 31 March 2023.

The NSG presented that a total of 29 299 learners were trained against a cumulative target of 28 995. A total of 5 718 learners enrolled for the Nyukela programme, which was a pre-entry into the public service; 3 052 successfully completed the programme by the end of December. The NSG’s women middle managers attended the last leg of the Africa venture programme delivered by common purpose. For the NSG, the third quarter reflected a higher achievement of the targets as compared to the previous quarters. The third quarter saw an improvement of 86% and a non-achievement of 14% of targets.

The CPSI presented that it had obtained a clean audit outcome on financial and non-financial information for the 2021/2022 financial year. The vacancy rate remained at 9.6% during the first quarter, due to two vacant posts. One post was filled on 1 July 2022 and the other posts would be re-advertised in quarter four. Performance agreements were completed by 31 May 2022.

The PSC presented that it had achieved 74% of its APP targets to date and there were plans underway to catch up on the targets which had been missed. The total budget for the PSC was R295.5 million for the 2022/2023 financial year. It was broken down into two phases, namely the compensation of the employees which constituted 76% and 24% towards Goods and Services.

The Committee asked the NSG whether the training courses were structured and tailored around the Local Government mandate and its challenges. Could an update be provided on the turnaround time for collecting the training fees from all the stakeholders? Had the CPSI considered replicating the fingerprint project in other provinces, as the Portfolio Committee had noted how well the project had been undertaken? Was the vacancy rate of the DPSA going to go down at any point and could clarity be given on the measures that were put in place to address the issues of the vacancy rate for the next financial year? Would it be possible for the DPSA to spend at least 90% of the expenditure by the end of the fourth quarter?

The Deputy Minister in the Presidency: DPME introduced the presenters of the report and issued an apology from the Director General. She highlighted that at the centre of the tasks of the Department was a plan to ensure that the National Development goals were implemented. The DPME was mandated to alleviate communities and citizens from poverty, unemployment, and inequality.

The DPME presented that it achieved 95% of its targets in the first quarter, 96% in the second quarter, and 100% in the third quarter. At the beginning of the 2022/2023 financial year, there was an 8.2% vacancy rate; by October 2022, it was 7.7%. The DPME had a budget of R470 850 million for the year under review. The Department spent 80% of its budget in the first quarter, 86% in the second quarter, and 92% in the third quarter.

The Committee asked for a breakdown of the amounts for computer services due to the outstanding invoices from SETA and minor assets owing to the outstanding delivery of office furniture.

StatsSA presented that it achieved 92.3% of its targets in the first quarter, 93.7% in the second quarter, and 93.3% in the third quarter. In the third quarter, the entity published 68 statistical releases; and hosted the Natural Capital Accounting workshop, bringing together key strategic partners in the data ecosystem. Stats SA had a capital allocation of R2.9 billion, of which 11% was allocated to Capital assets, 58.2% was allocated to compensation of employees (largely due to the issues related to Census), 0.1% was allocated to transfers and subsidies, and 30.6% was allocated to Goods and Services. A rollover of R194 million was approved, since when the Census began in February, it was towards the end of the financial year and Stats SA had to continue extending the time for the Census programme.

Brand SA presented that it achieved 96% of its targets in quarter one. In the second quarter, the entity achieved 86% of its targets, and 85% of targets were achieved in the last quarter. The budget allocated to Brand SA was R163 592 million and R171 million had been spent, which indicated an overspending of R7.4 million. The entity had a rollover of funds from the previous year which was utilised in the current year and it also received a sponsorship from partnerships.

The Committee asked if StatsSA had conducted a survey of the estimated endurance by businesses in the economy to sustain themselves amid the energy crisis, and the outcomes thereof. The Committee asked both the StatsSA and Brand SA concerning the concerns of human resource capacity. Could an outline of the mitigation plans around addressing the human resources issues be provided? Perhaps Brand SA could look at the matter of fixed term contracts and in the case of StatsSA, it could look at its stakeholder and partnership networks.

Meeting report

The Chairperson indicated that the Portfolio Committee was meeting for the first time in the new year. The sub-committee had been inundated with the shortlisting process for the Public Service Commission vacancy. The Chairperson outlined the agenda for the meeting.

He gave the respective Deputy Ministers an opportunity to give a brief overview ahead of the presentations from the entities and departments.

The Chairperson welcomed all the Members present and noted an apology from Inkosi R Cebekhulu (IFP), who had indicated that his attendance would be delayed. There was an apology from Ms R Komane (EFF) and Mr Z Mbhele (DA), who indicated they would attend the meeting later.

Opening Remarks from Deputy Minister
Dr Chana Pilane-Majake, Deputy Minister of Public Service and Administration, said that the reports from the entities had already been tabled, as per the communication, that they had to be tabled before 10 February 2023. The reports indicated the progress of the Departments in terms of the budget and the spending patterns for the relevant financial year. The reports also indicated the vacancy rates and how many vacant positions were filled across the various departments. The reports showed the performance in terms of the targets the various departments had set out for, for the 2022\2023 financial year.

She highlighted that the Departments were doing well in meeting the set targets and an area that remained a concern was the vacancy rate, which the Departments had not been performing well on. The reports would indicate the reasons why the vacancy rates were still high. The Public Service Commission was the only Department that had been able to drastically reduce its vacancy rates.

She highlighted that the Department had had irregular expenditures and it remained hopeful that by the end of the financial year, it would have managed to spend accordingly.

Remarks from the Director-General
Ms Yoliswa Makhasi, Director-General, Department of Public Service and Administration (DPSA), introduced the Deputy Director General who was responsible for the performance oversight and would be presenting the report to the Portfolio Committee.

She made a few opening remarks concerning the vacancy rate in the DPSA. She indicated that the Department was sitting at 12.45% regarding vacancies. Some of the key reasons for those high vacancy rates were that the Department had been appointing people internally, which did not influence reducing the vacancy rate. It was also due to the manual processes used by the DPSA that delayed the turnaround time for recruitments. The Human Resources department had to go through the papers and emails manually because people no longer applied physically; however, the reviewing process was still manual. She indicated that the filling of senior positions had been difficult, as there had been a vacant DDG position for the past three years and the vacancy had been advertised and there had not been a suitable candidate to fill the vacancy. The Acting Minister had indicated that the senior vacancy had to be filled when there was a Minister appointed, and the same applied to the DDG for the Centre for Public Service Innovation.

Mr J McGluwa (DA) asked for clarity as to whether the Minister was going to attend the meeting as there were turnaround times and targets that had not been achieved that needed to be accounted for by the Minister. He said it was problematic that both Ministers for both portfolios did not attend such an important meeting.

The Chairperson noted the point raised by Mr McGluwa.

DPSA Q1, 2 & 3 performance
Ms Linda Dludla, DDG: Administration, DPSA, indicated that the Annual Performance plan was drawn from the Department’s 2020 - 2025 Strategic Plan which was aligned with government’s Medium Term Strategic Framework. Quarterly Performance Reporting served as an early warning system, and it promoted accountability and transparency.

She took the Committee through the progress of implementing the Department's strategic priorities. The strategic plan included full implementation of the Public Administration Management Act (PAMA). The Department had finalised the draft of its regulations on conducting business with the State, the disclosure of financial interest and the Ethics, Integrity and Disciplinary Technical Assistance Unit and the Office of Standards and Compliance Regulations.

On the effective implementation of public service policies, she indicated that 75% of the Departments complied with prescripts.

She highlighted the five strategies and the achievements made concerning each strategy, which can be found in more detail in the presentation.

She gave the Portfolio Committee a high-level overview of the first, second, and third quarterly performance. The DPSA achieved 91% of its targets in the 1st quarter, it achieved 78% of its targets in the 2nd quarter, and in the 3rd quarter, 81% of the targets were achieved.

The presentation indicated the quarterly performances according to the different programs in the DPSA.

In programme one, no fruitless and wasteful expenditure was experienced within the DPSA during the financial year under review. There was an incident of irregular expenditure in the 2nd quarter. The Department had not procured goods and services in excess of R50 million. A report on compliance with the Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment prescripts was produced and submitted to the Chief Financial Officer in August 2022.

The Department had 2.2% representation of people with disability in the first quarter and 2.19% representation in the second and third quarters.

She highlighted some of the programmes which were not achieved in programme one, and those can be found in greater detail in the presentation.

She took the Committee through Programme two which focused on Human Resources Management and Development. She highlighted some of the programme's achievements and the targets that were not achieved.

Programme three looked at the negotiations, labour relations and remuneration management; the consultations on the draft Collective Bargaining Policy and Procedures were finalised in the third quarter. The consultations were done with the Employer Caucus and the National Labour Relations Forum.

Ms Dludla highlighted the employment and vacancy rate according to each programme. She indicated that the Department had implemented a project-based approach to fill each of the vacancies. A recruitment plan had been developed for prioritised posts (due to budget cuts) and other posts that became vacant due to retirements, resignations and promotions. The DPSA had projected that the vacancy rate would be reduced to 12% by the end of the financial year 31 March 2023.

Mr Masilo Makhura, CFO, DPSA, took the Committee through the budget and expenditure of each programme as at the end of December 2022.

He indicated that the total budget for the Department, including the CPSI, was R550 million and R381 million was the actual expenditure as at the end of December. He said that translated to 69.4% spent at the end of the third quarter.

He said one of the issues was the funded vacant posts. The administration programme had 38 vacant posts at the end of December, including those in the Ministry, and not all the posts had been filled. The DPSA had followed up with SITA concerning the Information Technology Support in the Department relating to PBX and Telephone management systems. He indicated that the above had been budgeted for but had not yet been finalised. The DPSA was still following up on the proposals.

See attached for full presentation  

National School of Government Q3 performance
Professor Busani Ngcaweni, Principal of the NSG, stated that the entity would present the third quarter organisational performance of the 2022/2023 financial year.

He said the report would touch on the concerns raised about vacancy rates and the percentage looked high but there were specific reasons for such. The vacancy rate was high two years ago because the entity was going through a restructuring process which was concluded a year ago. The current situation faced by the NSG was that many colleagues were approaching retirement age and there was a natural attrition and internal promotions. The NSG had a plan in place that was aimed at filling the vacant posts.

Mr Dino Poonsamy, Head of Strategy, NSG, presented that the first and second quarter reports had been submitted to the Portfolio Committee. The third quarter report provided an accumulative performance of the NSG. He indicated that that was the third year of implementation of the five-year strategic plan that the Portfolio Committee approved. He highlighted the five-year vision and mission of the NSG.

A total of 29 299 learners were trained against a cumulative target of 28 995. A total of 5718 learners enrolled for the Nyukela programme, which was a pre-entry into the public service; 3052 successfully completed the programme by the end of December. The NSG’s women middle managers attended the last leg of the Africa venture programme delivered by common purpose.

Mr Poonsamy highlighted the National framework towards the professionalisation of the Public Sector. Cabinet approved the framework, and the framework was published for consultation in 2021. The framework provided five pillars on interventions in professionalising the Public Sector. The pillars included pre-entry recruitment and selection within the public sector; induction and onboarding; planning and performance management; continuous learning and professional development; and career progression and incidents.

He took the Committee through the changes in the conditions of employment for the Directors-General. Cabinet approved the National framework that proposed measures to strengthen the capacity and capability of the DGs in the Public Service. The framework made several proposals including the tenure of the DGs and the management of delegations by the Executive Authority to the accounting officers.

Mr Poonsamy provided a synopsis of the enrolments that had been taking place in the various courses and it continued to grow as the NSG made use of the e-learning platform.

There was higher training being conducted at a National and Provincial level compared to the Local Government sphere and public entities. The NSG focused on facilitating more training in the Local Government sphere and various public entities.

The performance of the NSG had been significantly steady with most of the indicators being achieved as compared to those not achieved. The third quarter reflected a higher achievement of the targets as compared to the previous quarters. The third quarter saw an improvement of 86% and a non-achievement of 14% of targets.

He took the Committee through the financial performance of the NSG for the two accounts, the vote account and the trading account.

See presentation for full performance

Centre for Public Service Innovation Q1, 2 and 3 Performance
Ms Lydia Sebokedi, Acting Executive Director, CPSI , introduced the first, second, and third quarter performance of the CPSI.

She took the Committee through the organisation's strategic outcomes; she highlighted that the impact statement of the CPSI was to improve the effectiveness and efficiency of the public service and its service delivery to the public through innovation.

The CPSI obtained a clean audit outcome on financial and non-financial information for the 2021/2022 financial year. The vacancy rate remained at 9.6% during the first quarter, due to two vacant posts. One post was filled on 1 July 2022 and the other posts would be re-advertised in quarter four. Performance agreements were completed by 31 May 2022.

Ms Sebokedi highlighted the achievements under program two which were the innovation research and development initiatives undertaken. The CPSI successfully co-hosted the 4IR EXPO and Developer Labs from 16 to 17 June 2022 at St John’s College, Mthatha which was aimed at strengthening the youth’s digital skills and introducing opportunities presented by the Fourth Industrial Revolution.

During the period of April 2022 to December 2022, the CPSI processed 332 payments with no payments exceeding 30 days recorded.

See presentation for full performance

Public Service Commission Q1, 2 and 3 Performance
Professor Somadoda Fikeni, Chairperson, PSC, expressed that he was happy to hear from the Chairperson of the Committee that the sub-committee was busy with the shortlisting of the Public Commissioners because it meant that one of the vacant posts in the National office would be filled. The Gauteng Province recently filled the vacancy of its commissioner, and it meant that the incurred non-expenditure for the personnel cost would go down. He said that the Northwest province had also conducted interviews and was currently in the process of selecting which would be concluded by the end of February. He said that in a long while the PSC would have a 100% occupancy in terms of its commissioners.

The visibility of the PSC had increased, and it was reflected in the report and the impact made by the PSC was shown. He highlighted that for the first time in the PSC Anti-Corruption Conference, there would be the President, Chief Justice, and the Speaker all in one conference. The conference was highly profiled.
As a part of the repositioning of the PSC, preparations were underway for the PSC Bill when it was enacted. The PSC was also preparing for the professionalisation of the public service as it was giving the entity more responsibilities.

Advocate Dinkie Dube, Director-General, PSC, gave the Committee a reflection of the plans of the PSC in the year under review. The PSC started with a budget of R295.5 million; there were nine provincial offices. The PSC had had two successive years of clean audits. In the period under review, the PSC had finalised a total of 210 complaints regarding the investigations related to the public administration. 

The implementation of Priority one through the National Development Plan’s five-year Implementation Plan and the MTSF enabled the PSC to identify four outcomes that would contribute towards building a capable State. The first outcome was an improved service delivery culture; followed by: sound leadership practices in the Public Service; a well-coordinated and functioning Monitoring and Evaluation system; and finally, a strong, well-functioning PSC.

She took the Committee through the efforts that the PSC had made to increase its visibility, as well as some of the key achievements of the entity. The report provides further detail.

The PSC achieved 74% of its APP targets to date and there were plans underway to catch up on the targets which had been missed. Adv Dube took the Committee through the various programmes, the targets achieved, and the reasons behind some of the deviations.

Mr Zweli Momeka, CFO, PSC, gave an overview of the financial performance of the PSC for the year under review. The total budget for the PSC was R295.5 million for the 2022/2023 financial year. It was broken down into two phases, namely the compensation of the employees which constituted 76% and 24% towards Goods and Services. He gave a high-level analysis of the budget as at December 2022.

See presentation for full performance

Discussion
Dr L Schreiber (DA) indicated that it was pleasing to hear that there were no incidents of irregular expenditure.

He asked for clarity on the implementation plan of the seven high level recommendations from the report regarding the professionalisation of the public sector.

He highlighted the policy raised that the deployment practices were to be ditched in favour of merit-based recruitment and selection. He sught clarity on how cadre deployment would be ditched and the implementation thereof.

Mr J McGluwa (DA) raised his concern with the time constraints and the number of presentations made before the Committee in one session. He said it was difficult to perform thorough oversight of the issues raised.

He asked how the departments had been affected by the load-shedding in all provinces regarding the progress made on certain projects and time lost.

He said that it seemed that the Public Service Commission was blaming Parliament in terms of taking responsibility for vacancies. He said that it would either be between the PSC or Parliament that accounted for not filling the three vacant commissioner posts.

He asked whether there had been any update regarding lifestyle audits done for 2022/2023, and for further clarity on the regulations. He asked whether there were any remedial actions and the impact those would have had on political appointments. He raised particular interest in knowing who was trained to conduct the lifestyle audits and the costs of the audits. He said that it was important for the Portfolio Committee to understand the regulations of those audits, as they would need to know whether the corrective measures were being put in place to bring the corrupt to book.

Mr McGluwa addressed the NSG and asked for clarity on the restructuring process and what that process entailed. He also asked for an update regarding the funding model used by the NSG to ensure that it was self-sustainable, and by when the NSG anticipated the funding model to be self-sustained.

Ms S Maneli (ANC) addressed the NSG and asked whether the training courses were structured and tailored around the Local Government mandate and its challenges. She also asked for an update on the turnaround time for collecting the training fees from all the stakeholders.

She asked whether the CPSI had considered replicating the fingerprint project in other provinces, as the Portfolio Committee had noted how well the project had been undertaken.

Ms Maneli asked whether the vacancy rate of the DPSA would go down at any point and she asked for clarity on the measures put in place to address the issues of the vacancy rate for the next financial year. She asked whether it would be possible for the DPSA to spend at least 90% of the expenditure by the end of the fourth quarter.

Ms C Motsepe (EFF) asked for the reasons why the DPSA chose to recruit internally, when there were so many people looking for jobs externally. She asked for the reasons why the principles of Batho Pele were not used.

She asked for clarity on why women chose to resign when there was a need for them in the workspace.

Ms M Ntuli (ANC) commended the DPSA for its efforts to increase the employment of people with disabilities.

She referred to the percentage of women in Senior Management Service (SMS). She asked whether the DPSA could strategise not to be precise when it employed women candidates for it to achieve the 50% rate.

She asked whether there would be a possibility for the retirement processes to begin soon enough to ensure that the percentages of women in the Department would always remain at 50% and above.

She asked for clarity on the policy referred to which looked at the issue of cadre development.

The Chairperson requested that the departments and the entities submit their responses in writing to the Portfolio Committee.

The Portfolio Committee accepted the appeal from the Chairperson.

Opening Remarks from the Deputy Minister of DPME
Ms Pinky Kekana, Deputy Minister in the Presidency: DPME, introduced the presenters of the report and issued an apology from the Director-General. She highlighted that at the centre of the tasks of the Department was a plan to ensure that the National Development goals were implemented. The DPME was mandated to alleviate communities and citizens from poverty, unemployment, and inequality.

The DPME monitored all government departments across the spectrum to ensure all the goals were achieved.

Cabinet had approved the policy framework on Integrated Planning which also helped with the evaluation of the APPs of government. The DPME also looked at ways of addressing the triple challenges of poverty, inequality and unemployment.

Presentation from the Department of Planning, Monitoring and Evaluation (DPME) performance report
Mr Tom Nkosi, Deputy Director-General: Public Sector Monitoring and Capacity Development, DPME, introduced the Head of Strategic Planning., Mr Clement Madale, who would be taking the Committee through the presentation.

Mr Clement Madale, Head of Strategic Planning, DPME took the Committee through the quarterly organisational performance. He provided a breakdown of the three quarters of the year under review. The Department achieved 95% of its targets in the first quarter, 96% in the second quarter, and 100% in the third quarter.

He highlighted the performance of the Department according to the various programmes and in the first programme, administration, only one target was not achieved. The target related to the percentage of designated employees submitting financial disclosures, with a target of 100% compliance in submission of financial interest only 89.5% complied. There were processes underway to establish the reasons,

He highlighted that at the beginning of the 2022/2023 financial year, there was an 8.2% vacancy rate; by October 2022, it was 7.7%.

The DPME had a budget of R470 850 million for the year under review. The Department spent 80% of its budget in the first quarter, 86% in the second quarter, and 92% in the third quarter.

Mr Madale gave a breakdown of the expenditure analysis per programme, and it was explained in further detail in the report.

See presentation for full performance

Discussion
Mr McGluwa asked the DPME to provide a list of the critical posts that remained vacant and also to provide clarity on the underspent amounts thereof.

He asked for a breakdown of the amounts for computer services due to the outstanding invoices from SITA and minor assets owing to outstanding delivery of office furniture.

The Chairperson suggested that there should be a presentation for the Portfolio Committee on the issue of the professionalisation of the public sector.

Statistics South Africa Q1, 2 and 3 Performance
Mr Risenga Maluleke, Statistician General, introduced the presentation to the Portfolio Committee.

The entity achieved 92.3% of its targets in the first quarter, 93.7% in the second quarter, and 93.3% in the third quarter. Mr Maluleke gave an overview of the targets achieved each quarter. In the third quarter, the entity published 68 statistical releases; and it hosted the Natural Capital Accounting workshop, which brought together key strategic partners in the data ecosystem.

He also took the Committee through the agile operating model, which was provided in greater depth within the report.

Mr Maluleke outlined the entity's financial performance for the year under review. Stats SA had a capital allocation of R2.9 billion, of which 11% was allocated to Capital assets, 58.2% was allocated to compensation of employees (largely due to the issues related to Census), 0.1% was allocated to transfers and subsidies, and 30.6% was allocated to Goods and Services. A rollover of R194 million was approved, since when the Census began in February, it was towards the end of the financial year and Stats SA had to continue extending the time for the Census program.

He highlighted that some of the strategic risks related to the fact that demand continues to overtake supply and the entity was working hard to ensure that the demand was met. The entity would continue to deal with the modernisation of the statistical value chain, because disruptions in the household surveys were glaring due to the emergence of gated communities which disrupted the reach of the census programme.

He said the issue relating to the appointment of Directors-General was something the entity continues to work on.

See presentation for full performance

Brand South Africa Q1, 2 and 3 Performance
Ms Sithembile Ntombela, Acting CEO, Brand SA, introduced the team from Brand SA who would be taking the Committee through the presentation. She said that at the core of the Brand SA strategy were the MTSF, State of the Nation Address (SONA) priorities, and the Sixth Administration priorities.

She took the Committee through the various outcomes of the entity to lay a foundation for the rest of the presentation. Outcome one spoke to the improved reputation of Brand SA as an entity, the second outcome looked at the increased attractiveness and therefore the attractiveness of the national brand, the third outcome spoke to the increased nation brand advocacy and active citizenship, and the fourth outcome addressed the aligned Nation Brand execution and experience domestically and internationally.

Ms Mpumi Mabuza, General Manager: Stakeholder Relations, Brand SA, gave the Portfolio Committee an overview of the performance of Brand SA across the three quarters. In quarter one, the entity achieved 96% of its targets. In the second quarter, the entity achieved 86% of its targets, and 85% of its targets were achieved in the last quarter.

She took the Committee through the various programmes and gave an in-depth view of the achievements thereof.

Mr Zolile Zibi, Acting CFO, Brand SA, indicated that the budget allocated to Brand SA was R163 592 million and R171 million had been spent, which indicated an overspending of R7.4 million. The entity had a rollover of funds from the previous year which got utilised in the current year and it also received a sponsorship from partnerships.

He took the Committee through the progress of the audit action plans.

See presentation for full performance

Discussion
Mr J McGluwa suggested that the Committee should invite both Ministers to address the Committee on the uncertainty of the possible amalgamation [of BrandSA and Tourism SA]. He said that it was very confusing. One of the entities in programme one had underspent almost R15 million because of the uncertainty and possible instability.

Brand SA had to clarify to the Committee whether there had been any engagement with the two Ministers on the issues relating to amalgamation. He referred to the allegations of a R2 billion donation and he said that there had to be clarity provided by the entity to the Committee.

Ms Maneli echoed the sentiments shared by Mr McGluwa and agreed that the two Ministers had to be called in for a meeting to provide a concise way forward on the merger.

She asked whether there had been any feedback from the Cabinet on the opposition to the merger.

She asked whether the Minister was consulted before filling some of the vacancies and requested Brand SA to clarify the process of identifying those permanent appointments.

She asked whether StatsSA had surveyed the estimated endurance of businesses in the economy to sustain themselves amid the energy crisis, and the outcomes thereof. She asked what government's response had been to such outcomes.

Mr Z Mbhele (DA) addressed both the StatsSA and BrandSA concerning the concerns of human resource capacity. He asked for an outline of the mitigation plans around addressing the human resources issues. He suggested that perhaps BrandSA look at the matter of fixed term contracts and, in the case of StatsSA, it could look at its stakeholder and partnership networks.

Ms Thembi Siweya, Deputy Minister in the Presidency, indicated that the Department should be allocated the same amount of time as the other departments as they had prepared enough to present.

The Chairperson noted the point, however, due to time constraints, the Committee had to limit the time for all presentations.

The Chairperson again indicated that the departments and the entities would respond to the questions in writing.

Meeting adjourned.

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