(Subcommittee) Public Service Commissioner vacancy: interviews day 2

Public Service and Administration

03 November 2020
Chairperson: Mr T James (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

Video: Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration (Subcommittee), 3 November 2020

The Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration met to conduct interviews for filling a vacancy of Commissioner for the Public Service Commission. The Committee advertised the position in September 2020 and received 151 applications from people across South Africa. 19 applicants were shortlisted taking into account gender representivity. 17 of the shortlisted candidates were interviewed over a period of two days. The interview for one of the candidates was conducted virtually due to medical reasons. Eight candidates were interviewed on Day 2. Members were concerned that one candidate was interviewed virtually and could not be seen on the online platform. The Committee agreed that it would meet for deliberations on the interviewed candidates after 10 November 2020. An exact date is yet to be set.
 

Meeting report

The meeting commenced with preparations for the interview process where Members chose the interview questions they would ask from a prepared list.

The Chairperson said the one candidate, Dr Kentse Berryl Sesele, would be interviewed virtually on medical grounds as she had been in contact with someone who had contracted COVID-19 and was awaiting her test results while in isolation.

•  Ms Zama Phindile Mdletshe
•  Mr Avinash Bhanpersad Maharaj
•  Ms Okuhle Ndedwa Ngumbela
•  Mr Themba C Dubazana
•  Ms Thembekile Phylicia Makhubele
•  Dr Fhumulani Munyai
•  Dr Edwin Samkelo Mahlobo
•  Dr Sesele Berryle Kentse

Refer to the audio recording for each candidate's response to the interview questions:

The Chairperson asked the candidate to briefly confirm the information contained in the CV bearing in mind that Members had a copy of it before them.

Question One
Ms R Lesoma (ANC) said the Committee assumes that the candidate had taken the time to read Chapter 10 of the Constitution. The Public Service Commission functions to promote the values and principles governing public administration and to give directions in ensuring personnel procedures comply with these principles. She asked the candidate to explain if the Public Service Commission was making an impact on the public service. How could the Public Service Commission reposition itself to make a wider impact given its mandate. Considering the Constitution, does the candidate think that the spouse and children of political representatives and former office bearers should be prevented from doing business with the state. She asked the candidate to give reasons and provide solutions.

Question Two
Ms M Kibi (ANC) said the Constitution directs the public service to be professional, accountable and development orientated. The NDP amplifies this constitutional directive by identifying specific steps that need to promote these values and principles across public administration. She asked the candidate's understanding of the vision of professionalising the public administration in the country. The response should distinguish between cadre deployment based on the meritocratic and cadre deployment based on the mediocratic in public administration. What could be the role of the PSC in ensuring professionalisation of the public administration is institutionalised? Maladministration and corruption are cancers ingrained in the public service and has become the new normal and is negatively impacting on development in South Africa. What causes corruption and how can the PSC play a meaningful role in preventing and curbing corrupt practices in the public service? She asked the candidate to indicate current weaknesses in the system and propose solutions.

Question Three
Mr C Sibisi (NFP) said professionalisation of the public service can happen as a function of meritocracy which is a system of appointing and promoting staff based on knowledge and skills. As a Public Service Commissioner, how would the candidate advise government departments to institutionalise meritocratic tools in state administration to achieve professional public service. How does the candidate think the Public Service Commission can strengthen its own oversight and strengthen oversight by Parliament?

Question Four
Ms R Komane (EFF) said professionalisation of the public service can happen as a function of meritocracy which is a system of appointing and promoting staff based on knowledge and skills. As a Commissioner of the Public Service Commission, how would the candidate advise government departments to institutionalise meritocratic tools in the administration of the state in order to achieve professional public service. How does the candidate think the Public Service Commission can strengthen its own oversight to Parliament.

Question Five
Mr L Shreiber (DA) said it is believed that a responsible, ethical and value-driven Public Service Commission depends on, amongst other things the investigative function of the PSC into public administration malpractices, particularly in the areas of irregular appointments and curbing corruption in government departments. How can the PSC strengthen its role of investigation into unethical conduct and parlay a meaningful role in assisting government to curb corruption in the public administration?

Question Six
Ms B Maluleke (ANC) said there is a huge loss of public monies due to corruption especially with public servants doing business with the state. How can public servants be stopped from doing business with the state since there is already legislation which prevents this practice, but it is still happening?

Question Seven
The Chairperson said the power to appoint is assigned by Section 3(7) of the Public Service Act. Ministers or MECs can delegate this power to department officials. What are the major obstacles in the public sector recruitment system and is it effective in ensuring a professional and capable state. What role can the PSC play in eliminating unethical practices in the recruitment system to ensure public servants are appointed based on merit?

The Chairperson asked if the candidate had any questions for the interview panel. He said that the outcome of the interviews would be communicated in due course.

Additional Question to Ms Ngumbela
In addition to these questions, Mr Schreiber asked a follow-up question of Ms Ngumbela. He saw the candidate had listed the ANC spokesperson as well as the daughter of the former ANC president on her CV. He noted the candidate has a lot of experience working within the ANC and asked if she considered herself to be an ANC cadre.

Additional Question to Dr Mahlobo
Mr Schreiber asked for clarity on his reference to China and the way cadre deployment is used there. He asked if Dr Mahlobo was suggesting that in a country with a democratic constitution he viewed China as a role model, given that it is an authoritarian state.

Ms Lesoma pointed out that the candidate clarified what he meant in his previous answer.

Mr Schreiber asked if the candidate should not be answering the question and why Ms Lesoma was answering the question.

Ms Lesoma said she was not answering the question.

The Chairperson said Ms Lesoma was making an intervention as Mr Schreiber was interrupting the candidate's point of view, thinking that the candidate is wrong.

Mr Schreiber said the candidate said 5% of the population was deployed for cadre deployment. His follow-up was to ask the candidate if this was appropriate and if only 5% of the population should have the opportunity to be deployed.

The Chairperson said this was a political debate and that the candidate did not need to answer the question.

Ms Lesoma said China and South Africa had its own characteristics and political system.

The Chairperson told the candidate not to answer the question as he had made a ruling on it.

Post-Interviews discussion
Mr Sibisi said he was concerned that Dr Kentse's interview took place virtually. The Committee was not sure if it was interviewing the right person as the candidate could not be seen on the screen. He asked if the Committee Secretary had received a medical certificate from the candidate as we are not sure if she has a medical case. In future, the Committee should not agree to this merely for the sake of being agreeable.

The Chairperson said the concern was noted.

Ms Lesoma said it was agreed that a Zoom meeting should be held to deliberate on the candidates. However, a date must be considered for the Committee to meet in person. It should be a very thorough and clinical process to choose a candidate. Zoom has its own limitations.

The Chairperson said he agreed that the deliberations meeting should take place in person.

In reply to Ms Komane asking when the Committee would meet for deliberations, the Chairperson said it should meet after 10 November to deliberate on the interviews.

Meeting adjourned.

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