Interviews for filling PSC Commissioner vacancy Day 2

Public Service and Administration

01 November 2019
Chairperson: Mr T James (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

Three of the nine candidates for the position of Public Service Commissioner were interviewed by the Sub-Committee of the Portfolio Committee in Public Service and Administration. The interviewees were: Ms Nomonde Patience Keswa, Ms Zanele Isabella Hlatshwayo, Mr Dizline Mfanozelwe Shozi.
 

Meeting report

The Chair asked the secretariat to give an update on the ninth candidate.

The Committee Secretary stated that they received an apology from the candidate, indicating that he is out of the country. The candidate had submitted all relevant documents and requested to be interviewed on a later date.

The Chairperson suggested that the candidate should be granted the opportunity to be interviewed on 6 November 2019.

Members agreed that the candidate be interviewed on 6 November 2019 at 08h00.

Interview 1: Ms Nomonde Patience Keswa

The Chairperson asked the candidate to introduce herself with reference to her background and experience; and why she would like to be a Public Service Commissioner. He asked what the candidate’s understanding was of the values and principles enshrined in section 195 of the Constitution, to name and elaborate on a few of those values and principles. He also asked what the candidate's understanding was of the functions of the PSC.

Refer to audio for responses.

Ms R Lesoma (ANC) said that the Constitution provides for a strong role for the PSC in upholding the principles of public administration. One of its functions is to give directions aimed at ensuring that personnel procedures relating to recruitment, transfers, promotions and dismissals comply with the values and principles set out in section 195. She asked what could be the best strategy in assisting the PSC to ensure that government departments appoint competent and judicious men and women, and dedicated public servants, particularly at the senior management level. The National Development Plan emphasised that South Africa needs to build a state that is capable of playing a developmental and transformative role. She asked what challenges hinder the public administration in potentially realising a developmental state; and what sort of service South Africa requires to achieve its developmental objective.

Ms Lesoma said that the candidate had been repeating the term ‘the state’, and she asked what was the candidate’s understanding of the state.

Mr C Sibisi (NFP) said that effective governance in the public sector encourages better decision-making and the efficient use of resources. He asked how the candidate would define good governance; and what were the five main principles of good governance within the context of a democratic government and efficient public service.

Dr L Schreiber (DA) said that one form of corruption that has persisted is public servants doing business with the state. Legislation was put in place in 2014 that prohibits this from happening, but it is something that is still ongoing. He asked the candidate what the best way of ensuring this law is implemented and that the elimination of this kind of behaviour is seen in practice.

Ms Lesoma said that there is a perception that some senior management do not want to be vetted. She asked for the candidate’ view on this.

Ms M Kibi (ANC) asked how the PSC can strengthen its own oversight and the oversight by parliament. During the State of the Nation Address, the President applied seven priorities for the Sixth Administration, among those is to build capable, ethical and developmental state, which is what Chapter 10 of the Constitution envisages. She asked what role the PSC should play in ensuring the realisation of a capable, ethical and developmental state.

Ms M Ntuli (ANC) said that the financial disclosure framework is aimed at preventing conflicts of interest by requiring senior management to disclose their financial interests. She asked the candidate to provide an explanation on how financial disclosure works.

The Chairperson said that the power to appoint in South Africa is assigned by section 3(7) of the Public Service Act – ministers or MECs can delegate the power to the officials within the department. He asked what the major obstacles in the recruitment system in the public sector are; whether its recruitment system is effective to ensure a professional and capable state. He asked what the role of the PSC could be in eliminating unethical practices in the recruitment system to ensure public servants are appointed based on merit.

Dr Schreiber asked if the candidate sees the involvement of politicians in the process called cadre deployment as appropriate and ethical or should appointments be left entirely to the department and the PSC. He asked if it should be a function of a body like the PSC to appoint people who are implementing policy.

The Chairperson asked if the candidate had any question or comment for the committee.

Interview 2: Ms Zanele Isabela Hlatshwayo

The Chairperson asked the candidate to introduce herself with reference to her background, experience and why she would like to be a Public Service Commissioner. The Public Service Commission has a constitutional mandate to promote the values and principles of section 195. He asked what the candidate’s understanding of these values and principles is. He asked her to mention a few and to elaborate on them. He asked the candidate's understanding of the functions of the PSC.

Refer to audio for responses.

Ms Lesoma said that the Constitution provides for a strong role for the PSC in upholding the principles of public administration. One of its functions is to give directions aimed at ensuring that personnel procedures relating to recruitment, transfers, promotions and dismissals comply with the values and principles set out in section 195. She asked what could be the best strategy in assisting the PSC to ensure that government departments appoint competent and dedicated public servants, particularly at the senior management level. The National Development Plan emphasised that South Africa needs to build a state that is capable of playing a developmental and transformative role. She asked what challenges hinder public administration in realising its developmental role; and what sort of public service South Africa requires to achieve its developmental objectives.

Mr Sibisi said that effective governance in the public sector encourages better decision-making and the efficient use of resources. He asked how the candidate would define good governance; and what the five main principles of good governance were within the context of a democratic government and efficient public service.

Dr Schreiber said there is legislation to prevent corruption such as public servants doing business with the state, however it still continues. He asked what role the PSC could play in ensuring this comes to an end.

Ms Lesoma said that there is a perception that some senior management personnel do not want to be vetted. She asked for the candidate's view on the vetting of senior managers.

Ms Kibi said that the PSC is expected to do oversight and asked how the PSC can strengthen its own oversight and the oversight by parliament. During the State of the Nation Address, the President applied seven priorities for the Sixth Administration, among those is to build a capable, ethical and developmental state, which is what Chapter 10 of the Constitution envisages. She asked what role the PSC should play in ensuring the realisation of a capable, ethical and developmental state.

Ms Ntuli said that the financial disclosure framework is aimed at preventing conflicts of interest by requiring senior management to disclose their financial interests. She asked the candidate to provide an explanation of how financial disclosure works.

The Chairperson said that the power to appoint in South Africa is assigned by section 3(7) of the Public Service Act – ministers or MECs can delegate the power to the officials within the department. He asked what the major obstacles in the recruitment system in the public sector are; whether its recruitment system is effective to ensure a professional and capable state. He asked what the role of the PSC could be in eliminating unethical practices in the recruitment system to ensure public servants are appointed based on merit.

Dr Schreiber said that the candidate, in her CV, describes herself as a political deployee and that she has always been a political activist. The Constitution states that Public Service Commissioners may not be members of a political organisation and the PSC must always be seen to be totally politically independent. He asked if her appointment would not amount to political cadre deployment and thus undermine the independence of the PSC. The PSC is an independent body, it is supposed to exercise oversight. He asked if her candidature creates an impression that undermines the political independence of a body where politics should never be in the equation.

The Chairperson asked if the candidate had a question or comment to put to the committee.

Interview 3: Mr Dizline Mfanozelwe Shozi
The Chairperson asked the candidate to introduce himself with reference to his background, experience and why he would like to be a Public Service Commissioner. The Public Service Commission (PSC) has a constitutional mandate to promote the values and principles of section 195. He asked what the candidate’s understanding of the values and principles enshrined in section 195 of the Constitution is. He asked him to mention a few and to elaborate on them. He asked the candidate's understanding of the functions of the PSC.

Refer to audio for responses

Ms Lesoma said that the Constitution provides for a stronger role for the PSC in upholding the principles of public administration. One of its functions is to give directions aimed at ensuring that personnel procedures relating to recruitment, transfers, promotions and dismissals comply with the values and principles set out in section 195. She asked what could be the best strategy in assisting the PSC to ensure that government departments appoint competent and dedicated public servants, particularly at senior management level. The National Development Plan emphasises that South Africa needs to build a state that is capable of playing a developmental and transformative role. She asked what challenges hinder public administration in realising its developmental role; and what sort of public service South Africa requires to achieve its developmental objectives.

Mr Sibisi said that effective governance in the public sector encourages better decision-making and the efficient use of resources. He asked how the candidate would define good governance; and what the five main principles of good governance were within the context of a democratic government and efficient public service.

Dr Schreiber said that there is legislation in place that prohibits the corruption of public servants doing business with the state, however it still continues. He asked what role the PSC could play to tackle this and ensure that it is eradicated in practice.

Ms Lesoma said that there is a perception that some senior management personnel do not want to be vetted. She asked what the candidate's view on the vetting of senior managers is.

Ms Kibi said that the PSC plays an oversight role and asked how the PSC can strengthen its own oversight and the oversight by parliament. During the State of the Nation Address, the President applied seven priorities for the Sixth Administration. Among those, is to build capable, ethical and developmental state, which is what Chapter 10 of the Constitution envisaged. She asked what role the PSC should play in ensuring the realisation of a capable, ethical and developmental state.

Ms Ntuli said that the financial disclosure framework is aimed at preventing conflicts of interest by requiring senior management to disclose their financial interests. She asked the candidate to provide an explanation on how financial disclosure works. She asked what the PSC can do to eliminate such wrongdoings, as mentioned in the candidate’s previous response.

The Chairperson said that the power to appoint in South Africa is assigned by section 3(7) of the Public Service Act – ministers or MECs can delegate the power to the officials within the department. He asked what the major obstacles in the recruitment system in the public sector are; whether its recruitment system is effective to ensure a professional and capable state. He asked what the role of the PSC could be in eliminating unethical practices in the recruitment system to ensure public servants are appointed on merit.

Dr Schreiber asked if the involvement of politicians in appointments is ethical and appropriate or if it should be abolished and replaced by a different system where politicians do not have a say in the appointment of officials.

The Chairperson asked if the candidate had a question or comment for the committee.

The Chairperson indicated that the candidates would be informed of the outcome of the interviews in writing, once all interviews have been concluded.

The meeting was adjourned.

 

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