Traditional Leadership and Governance Framework Amendment Bill & Public Service Commission Amendment Bill: negotiating mandates

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Meeting Summary

The Select Committee on Cooperative Governance and Traditional Affairs met to receive the negotiating mandates for two bills: the Traditional Leadership and Governance Framework Amendment Bill and the Public Service Commission Amendment Bill.

The North West voted did not support the Traditional Leadership and Governance Framework Bill while the Western Cape did not provide parameters due to there not being any recognised traditional leadership council in the province. Gauteng did present a submission to the Committee the representative said it is not a valid mandate due to there not being sufficient public participation. The Northern Cape did not submit negotiating mandates. The other five Province supported the Bill.

Six of the Provinces supported the Public Service Commission Amendment Bill. There were no submissions from the Northern Cape, Limpopo and Gauteng.

The Committee agreed to invite the relevant departments to respond to the issues raised in the mandates.

The Chairperson said he will summon the missing Provincial Liaison Officers to account for their absence.
 

Meeting report

The Chairperson welcomed members of the Committee, State Legal Advisors and all guests attending the meeting.

The Chairperson said where there is no representative for a province Mr J Mthethwa (ANC; KwaZulu-Natal) will read the submissions for those provinces.

There was an apology from Ms T Mokwele (EFF; North West).

Traditional Leadership and Governance Framework Amendment Bill
Eastern Cape Provincial Legislature
Ms T Wana (ANC; Eastern Cape) said the Eastern Cape Provincial Legislature voted in favour of the Bill. The Province did however vote that the one year period for the establishment of a new kings and queens council must be retained. There were also other matters which were presented in their submission for consideration.

The comments were noted.
Free State Provincial Legislature
Mr Mthethwa said the Free State Provincial Legislature voted in favour of the Bill without amendments.

Gauteng Provincial Legislature
Ms B Engelbrecht (DA; Gauteng) said that the negotiating mandate from the province was not accurate and therefore she cannot provide a negotiating mandate. She will be going back to the Chairperson of the Provincial Committee to review the negotiating mandate.

The Chairperson asked for clarity because in terms of the records they have circulated to members of the Committee a submission from the Gauteng Legislature.

Ms Engelbrecht said that she had been in discussion with legal regarding the mandate because it is an irregular mandate and she cannot present it to the Committee.

Mr Mthethwa said that according to the negotiating mandate that the Committee received the Gauteng Provincial Legislature supports the content and principle of the Bill with the proposed amendment in section 9 of Annexure A.

Mr D Ximbi (ANC; Western Cape) said that if the member wishes to seek advice from legal she may do so but she cannot stop the mandate from the Province.

Ms Engelbrecht said that there has been a problem in the Gauteng Legislature. The public was given one day for submissions for public participation therefore the public submissions were not accurate. She said they have to stick to the principles of the LAMOSA judgement.

The Chairperson said that the Committee’s approach should be based on formal submissions they get from the side of the Legislature. It is on record that the Committee has a formal submission from the Gauteng Legislature. He advised that Ms Engelbrecht go back and engage with the Gauteng Legislature on the issue.

Ms Engelbrecht said that as a legislative body they have to ensure that Legislative processes have been followed.

The Chairperson said that they are not necessarily expelling the concerns of Ms Engelbrecht but it would be more prudent for her to register her concerns with the Provincial Legislature and for her to update the Committee at a later stage.

KwaZulu-Natal Provincial Legislature
Mr Mthethwa said that the Province supports the Bill subject to its concerns and recommendations.
The recommendations were noted.

Limpopo Provincial Legislature
Mr Mthethwa said that Province supports the Bill.

The support was noted.

Mpumalanga Provincial Legislature
Mr S Mthimunye (ANC; Mpumalanga) said that the province supported the Bill with amendments. The first amendment is in Clause 2 Section 3(b), the term “Principle traditional community” is requested to be defined accordingly. The second amendment is in Clause 3 section 4 (a) that the period be changed from one year to two years for the commencement.

The recommendations were noted.

Northern Cape Provincial Legislature
Ms G Oliphant (ANC; Northern Cape) said the province was still busy with public hearings.

Western Cape Provincial Legislature
Mr Ximbi said that the Provincial Legislature abstained from providing parameters for negotiating because there are no recognised traditional council in the Western Cape.

North West Provincial Legislature
Mr Mthethwa voted against the amendment bill.

The Chairperson said the Committee will invite the Department to respond to the issues raised in the mandates.

Public Service Commission Amendment Bill
Eastern Cape Provincial Legislature
Ms Wana said the Province supports the Bill with amendments. The first amendment is in Clause one the criteria of the renewal must be subject to some form of public participation before approval by the National Assembly or Provincial Legislature. Also, the renewal criteria must include performance as the main basis as the renewal of the term. The Legislature recommended a change in the wording in Clause one subsection 7.
Mr M Chetty (DA; KwaZulu-Natal) asked for clarity around the Eastern Cape’s support with amendments and the implication for the Province’s support if the amendments are rejected.

A parliamentary legal advisor said that in terms of Section 5 of the Mandating Procedures Act, for a negotiating mandate a Province is allowed to present its position with respect to parameters and amendments. It is only the final mandate that it is required for a province to either support or reject.

Free State Provincial Legislature
Mr Mthethwa said the Province supports the Bill.

Gauteng Provincial Legislature
Ms Engelbrecht said there was no negotiating mandate from the province as there was no public participation.

KwaZulu-Natal Provincial Legislature
Mr Mthethwa said that the province supports the Bill subject to concerns.

The submission was noted

Mpumalanga Provincial Legislature
Mr Mthimunye said the province supports the Bill without any amendments.

Limpopo Provincial Legislature
There was not submission from the province.

It was noted.

Northern Cape Provincial Legislature
Ms Oliphant said the province will submit everything next week. There was no submission from the Province.

The Chairperson said that they need to address the issues in the Northern Cape. They will summon the MEC from the Northern Cape to appear before the Committee to account for the challenge the Province is facing.

The Chairperson asked where Parliamentary Liaison Officer for the Province is.

The Officer was not present.

The Chairperson asked the Provincial Liaison Officers present to name themselves for the sake of attendance registers before the end of the meeting.

Mr Chetty asked for the sake of consistency that the Committee should deal with the other Provinces who have not submitted negotiating mandates in the same way.

The Chairperson agreed.

The Chairperson said that the Committee Secretary will write to them to register their concerns and follow up on the progress made.

North West Provincial Legislature
Mr Mthethwa said the province supported the Bill.

Western Cape Provincial Legislature
Mr Ximbi said the province supported the Bill.

The Chairperson said that once the Committee has deliberated on the different Provincial positions and decided which positions to accept and reject it is to be sent back to Provincial legislatures to become the final mandate.

The Chairperson thanked the delegates for their submissions and said the Committee will invite the relevant Departments to respond to the negotiating mandates.

The Chairperson asked the Provincial Liaison Officers to confirm their presence in the meeting for the purpose of record.
The Liaison Officer for the Free State was present.
The Liaison Officer for Gauteng was present.
The Liaison Officer for KwaZulu-Natal was present.
The Liaison Officer for Mpumalanga Liaison officer was present.
The Chairperson said they will summon the missing Liaison Officers to account for their absence.

The meeting was adjourned.
 

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