DIRCO & African Renaissance Fund on their Annual Performance Plans; Foreign Policy focus areas & Sector Analysis

Meeting report

Remarks by Deputy Minister
Ms Nomainda Mfeketo, Deputy Minister of International Relations and Cooperation, said the country’s international engagements and responsibilities had increased and in the coming year South Africa would be the Chair of BRICS, Indian Ocean Rim Association (IORA) and SADC. The Department was aware of the costs associated with being the chair, but were committed to making the most of it to benefit South Africa domestically. In the previous year, economic diplomacy had been at the forefront of South Africa’s diplomatic engagements as it fostered better security and friendship among countries and people and helped South Africa domestically to further its national targets and was of importance in addressing poverty, inequality and unemployment.

Dr Philani Mthembu

Dr Philani Mthembu said he had used a comparison of the material capability of countries compared to its human development and to what extent it was reflected in the data as the basis for his analysis and this traditionally covered international relations, the size of the military budget, the energy consumption of a country, and demographics in terms of the size of the urban and overall population in the context of Africa. In terms of material capacity. Egypt ranked first, Nigeria second and South Africa third. In terms of Human Development however, the Seychelles ranked first, Mauritius second and Algeria third with South Africa ranked ninth.

In terms of international relations, South Africa had a very big global footprint and 160 foreign offices were represented in South Africa, second only to Washington. This raised the question whether, given South Africa’s size, there was a need for such a large amount of offices abroad or whether the resources could be used elsewhere.

He then spoke to the African agenda. South Arica would be chairing SADC and using it to assist with developing a tripartite free trade area. The AU was also negotiating the launch of a free trade area. He said the US had no real focus on Africa and that this was not necessarily a bad thing.

He said South Africa had identified the maritime security and the ocean economy as strategic as the country straddled the Indian and Atlantic oceans and it was important to develop maritime security and the ocean economy. The IORA link was important especially in terms of the rise of emerging powers. There was a need to look at Africa’s integrated maritime strategy. He then spoke to participation in foreign policy and that

society be integrated with foreign policy and vice verse, that foreign policy be taken to the people.

On development diplomacy, he said South Africa was a significant source of development diplomacy globally and had played a significant role in the DRC. The development sector was becoming diversified and the OECD did not hold a monopoly anymore. South Africa needed to input funds and ideas. He said South Africa needed to keep track of the coordination of foreign policy engagements and there had been an increase in sub national government activity which needed to be coordinated. He said the Department played an important role in training its own and foreign diplomats.

He then gave a list of the top trading partners of South Africa, internationally and on the continent and in terms of imports and exports.

Discussion

Mr S Mokgalapa (DA) said Morocco was now part of the AU. However, he wanted to know what the AU could do to help realise a resolution to the Sahrawi question. He agreed that there should be development diplomacy but that it should have an end in mind for example to ensure conflict resolution. He said he hoped the FSB bill would be finalised so that the training of diplomats could be upgraded. On trade, he said it was sad that only the SADC countries were in the top 10. What would the impact of chairing African bodies be? He said trade with the African continent had to increase.

Mr M Maila (ANC) asked what South Africa’s attitude to Morocco should be. Regarding the ocean economy, he said the Indian Ocean had IORA, was there something similar for the Atlantic Ocean. He said an extra-ordinary African court had tried the former president of Chad and sentenced him to a life sentence. How could that court, in Senegal under Senegalese law try a Chadian? Africa did not have a human rights court because of a lack of capacity.

Mr L Mpulwana (ANC) asked what amount of influence France had on Africa regarding the question of Morocco’s admission into the AU. What would the effect of suggesting sanctions against Morocco be? Was the BRICS Bank a form of war against the dollar?

The Chairperson asked if there was a return to isolationism by Trump or was it imposed on him by domestic concerns.

Dr Mthembu said that seeing as Morocco had already been readmitted to the AU, there were not many options. There could be full autonomy under AU or UN supervision but that would raise the issue of a referendum. It could also be an autonomy functioning under an Arab Maghrib union or under a regional autonomy supervised by the neighbouring states. He said pressure should still be maintained on Morocco because the issue had not been resolved and it was possible that an armed struggle could remerge. A new strategy was needed now that Morocco was part of the AU.

On development diplomacy, he said that there had been an ambivalence about talking about economic interests in conflict areas. He said economic diplomacy was an important aspect and to be utilised in a win-win manner. SMMMEs also had to be involved in business in other countries, not just big business.

On the ocean economy, he said that IORA’s counterpart for the Atlantic was the Zone of Peace and Cooperation in which Brazil played an important role.

He said it was not just how the African continent dealt with crimes against humanity, but also about how South Africa dealt with crimes against humanity in its foreign policy context.

He said the BRICS Bank was not a threat against the dollar, but the politics of it might be a threat.

Regarding the question on Trump, he said that US foreign policy since George Bush’s time when he spoke about nation building at home had focussed on the domestic scene. However, he had been side-tracked by military adventures outside the country. He said that while the US military was a superpower, domestically, the US infrastructure was crumbling and had problems with its health systems. The US was not doing well when judged on socio economic indicators. The more the US took unilateral military foreign policy decisions, the more they accelerated their decline.

Deputy Minister Mfeketo replied on the issue of Morocco and said that it was an area that had been deliberated on and South Africa had tried very hard to block Morocco from re-entering the AU. Unfortunately, there were no conditions attached to Morocco’s acceptance back into the AU because the AU did not have conditions attached to its membership. However, it was not a bad thing that Morocco and the Sahrawi were both in the AU. Now South Africa had to ensure that the Sahrawi people’s struggle did not end just because Morocco was in the AU. In addition, the AU was strict in terms of the conduct of AU members. The reason Morocco left the AU in the first place was because it felt it could not be bound by conditions regarding the Sahrawi people. Hopefully as the two parties engaged there would be the beginnings of a dialogue so the AU could be a platform to discuss issues.

On economic diplomacy, she said it was not just economic diplomacy it was also about Ubuntu. One could not begin economic diplomacy when there was war or troubles in a particular area. This created a situation where South Africa did not necessarily press to benefit economically from the relationship whereas other countries pressed ahead. She then left the meeting for another engagement.

Dirco

Mr Kgabo Mahoai, DIRCO Director-General, spoke to a situation analysis covering the performance environment, and the operational environment. On the performance environment, he said that South Africa’s foreign policy outlook was based on a commitment to the values and ideals of pan-Africanism, solidarity with people of the South, and the need to cooperate with all peace-loving people across the globe. He said the sharp decline in commodity prices has greatly dissuaded investment and adversely impacted socio-economic development and improved living conditions in Africa. On the operational environment, he said that

monetary regimes characterised by the fluctuation of main currencies had an effect on the Department’s mandate. Currently South Africa maintained diplomatic relations through 124 missions in 107 countries abroad, and through the accreditation of more than 160 countries and organizations resident in South Africa.

He said the focus of the APP would be on, amongst others:

• Strengthening of economic and political relations through structured bilateral mechanisms;
• Utilise the SADC chair-ship from August 2017 to expedite the regional integration agenda;
• Implement the AU Agenda 2063, by bolstering continental prosperity and a reduced reliance on international partners to ensure the AU’s financial independence;
• Support peace and security efforts in Libya, South Sudan, DRC and Burundi;
• Continue to strengthen North-South relations, particularly the UK and the EU;
• Strengthen working relations with the USA to strengthen economic growth through AGOA;
• Assume BRICS chair ship and use it as a vehicle for a shared common vision;
• Chairing the Indian Ocean Rim Association (IORA) in its 20th year of existence from October 2017 - 2019
• Recognize the effects of climate change, and how it affects South Africa and other neighbouring states;
• Support IBSA as an intimate platform from which to coordinate matters of common interest and concern;
• Continue to recognise Multilateralism as a focal point of South Africa’s foreign policy;
• Recognize that the current unpredictable global environment poses a number of risks to the UN and the global governance systems.

Ms Coetzee, DIRCO Chief Director: Planning, then spoke to the APP. In Program 1: Administration

2017/18 targets were to reduce the vacancy rate to within the minimum national average of 10%, develop a project plan for the integration of Departmental systems and implement phase one, implement 113 training programs, have 15 stakeholder engagements, and produce four research papers.

The targets in Program 2: International Relations were to utilise 30 structured bilateral mechanisms and 40 high level visits in pursuit of South Africa’s national interest, the interest of the continent and the global South. She then spoke to economic diplomacy measures to increase value added exports; attract Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) to priority sectors; to promote tourism; to promote the removal of non-tariff barriers; while regional integration remained critical for the economic development of the region.

In Program 3: International Cooperation and Global Governance, she said South Africa was committed to multilateralism and a rules-based international order and to this end participated and played an active role in all fora of the United Nations system. South Africa would hold 60 positions on identified influential multilateral bodies where South Africa is represented. South Africa would participate in 12 identified meetings and processes of organisations of the South and one identified meeting with formations of the North. She also spoke to Program 4: Public Diplomacy& State Protocol & Consular Services and Program 5: International Transfers for agency and membership dues.

She said the pressures on the 2017/18 Budget were; containing Compensation of Employees within the predetermined expenditure ceiling; funding of unforeseeable and unavoidable expenditure; and managing the fluctuation of the rand against the main foreign currencies where the risk remained high. Mitigating factors that had been implemented were the Compensation of Employees, the lay off of Locally Recruited Personnel and the deferment of filing some posts of transferred officials. Because of the budget reduction and expenditure ceiling, South Africa ’s Chair ship of Southern African Development Community(SADC), the

African Union Peace keeping role and the increased assessed contributions for SADC, United Nations, and the African Union remained unfunded.

Mr Caiphus Ramashau, DIRCO CFO, said the budget was reduced by R167m for 2017/18 but Treasury had provided an adjustment R828m for the fluctuation in the exchange rate. The budget shortfall was R398 144

The 2017/18 MTEF allocation was R6,5b comprising Program 1 at R1.5b, Program 2 at R3.5b, Program 3 at R565m, Program 4 at R266m and Program 5 at R617m.

ARF

Ms D Mathlako, Head of the ARF Secretariat, spoke to the program indicators for the ARF’s APP which were

• support for the holding of democratic elections in identified countries on the continent
• developing and providing training programs
• supporting the implementation of socio-economic development and integration projects
• supporting PCRD efforts on the continent
• assist countries that were in need of humanitarian assistance and disaster relief
• implementing bilateral and trilateral cooperation agreements 
• monitoring compliance with concurrence
• monitoring project implementation
• monitoring project closure

Mr Ramashau said there had been a reduction of R390m in the ARF’s budget leaving it with an allocation of only R22m. However, the ARF had an accumulated surplus of R1,7b leaving it with a total of R1,9m.  

Discussion

Ms O Hlope (EFF) asked what the plan of the Department was regarding climate change. What was the total staff complement number? She said that Treasury had placed a moratorium on compensation of employees. What was the current status? What programs had been embarked on in terms of the regional integration programs. She said she had not heard anything on the APRM (the promotion of good governance). If it was still playing a role, she wanted to have more information on these programs. Why was the Department not targeting to have a lean audit? What time frame was there for the fixing of the ARF legislation?

Mr Mokgalapa said the audit outcomes was the Achilles heel of the Department. What plans did it have to avoid a negative audit outcome? What were its maintenance of infrastructure plans? He said ARF should be applauded for its templates to monitor how funds were spent.

Mr Maila asked if there could not be exemptions to the meeting being open to the public in certain instances when strategy was being discussed. He said there was no indication that the Pan African parliament would be built and asked if it was true that the host country agreement had lapsed. He asked if there were outstanding cases against diplomats.

Mr D Bergman (DA) said the Department needed to look at the different countries that South Africa had a diplomatic presence and the missions impact in that country. He said the situation regarding BRICS needed to be managed and that a fall back or even an exit strategy had to be devised. He asked if South Africa hosted local trade shows for other countries to visit. He asked if the allegations against the previous CFO had been resolved. He said there was a need for a backdated screening of staff to ensure there was no future fallout. South Africa was represented on many bodies but needed to be more productive. He wanted to propose that the ARF was a bugbear and that its funds could be better utilised to host regional indigenous games as it was easier to unite people through sport, or it could use ARF funds in inter-trade agreements as the fund was established to improve inter African relationships.

Ms T Kenye (ANC) asked what measures were being taken with regard to the shortfall in the budget. How far was the Department in upgrading ICT systems and managing its expenditure ceilings.

Mr B Molefe (ANC) thanked the Department for operating within its budget.

Ms D Raphuti (ANC) said she did not agree with the previous speaker and said that while the Department might meet its budget, it would not meet its obligations. She asked if the ARF projects were sustainable and whether there had been any spin offs.

Mr B Radebe (ANC) said that on the issue of the white paper, the Committee had taken a decision that further engagements were needed because the fourth industrial revolution was not part of the white paper. Regarding the Forum on China Africa Cooperation 2015, he said that if China committed to something, they followed through on it. How would this impact on the AU budget?

On the volume of missions abroad, Mr Lekota (COPE) said that interest had to be balanced with the needs inside the country. What was a bigger priority, opening the large number of missions abroad or making resources available to educate and train the youth currently? South Africa was classified as a developing country so how could it have more missions than a country like Britain, Germany or Japan who were all developed? They were selective in the countries they chose and South Africa had to choose whether that investment outside the country had to be compared to an investment inside the country around the criteria of what would assist the trajectory of development the most.

Ms Kenye said her question concerns the issue of unqualified audit opinion and asked what measures have been taken in order to remedy the situation in 2014 by the Auditor General (AG). She said, “for example; asset evaluation, supply chain management because you said you are striving for unqualified audit opinion and maintaining unqualified audits instead of aiming for clean audits without any emphasis on unqualified audits even if we are talking about unqualified audits as emphasis or not but that does not mean it is a clean audit” she then asked what measures have been taken to address those shortfalls. She also mentioned that she is concerned about the job creation because when you look at the PAP there is this instance where the head there is a French man and does not employ South Africans while he is in the soil of South Africa, she said that is very critical and that it is a concern which must be looked at so that South Africans can also be employed there. She expressed that she is worried that the department mentioned that they have disintegrated business systems, that is; the ICT. She asked how far the department in efforts to update the system is and added that this is also a worrying factor. She asked how the Department is planning to manage its expenditure ceiling with an increased budget since they raised the issue of the reduction of budget. She said she is concerned about APRM which promotes good governance as well as NEPAD which is committed to socio – economic development but there is nothing mentioned about them. She highlighted that they want to know what they get out of the summits which are mentioned in the presentation.

Mr Molefe expressed appreciation and applauded the department because the essence of the CFO’s presentation is that the envelope they have been allocated by the National Treasury (NT) has been reduced so rather than throw hands in the air, complain and throw tantrums, what the Chief Financial Officer (CFO) and the Director General (DG) said is that they will try to live within that envelope. He remarked that this is a very rare response from Departments when their budgets are reduced. He added that they need to reduce the deficit because they need to show better fiscal management. He said usually the Departments complain when budget is reduced and they also join them in complaining about that. He remarked that the approach of DIRCO has adopted a constructive approach and wants to commend the Department on that.

Ms Raphuti congratulated the newly appointed DG and remarked that the Department is doing so well and that she is proud of their work. However, at the end she said it feels like they ate lemons. She asked if the projects which they have funded are by any means sustainable and are there any measures in place to ensure this sustainability. She also asked if there were any spin offs so that they replicate this kind of sustainability in other countries. She then asked the CFO how he is going to be able to meet the obligations with a reduced budget and remarked that she is not happy about this statement where the CFO said he will be able to meet obligations.

Mr Radebe said he is going to lash on the issue which was raised by the DG about the white paper. He said the department must come with a plan of how they are going to involve civil society on the issue of white paper. He made an example about the different kinds of investors which invest in the country by mentioning the European Union and the quality of their investments. He said this must also be reflected in the universities because that is where future civil servants will come from like diplomats. Therefore, the education system must also engage the issue of white paper as well as civil society must be engaged as well to avoid protests. He made an example about how much young Chinese students know about their economy and its future, and said that is what is needed here as well; to get young people involved and knowledgeable. He mentioned that because of the fourth Industrial Revolution, even the workplace of the future will change and students need to be prepared for that. He alluded to the sixty various institutions which the government works with internationally and made an example of the United Nations (UN). He said there must be South Africans who are employed in the UN who will be able to push policies that reflect the needs of the developing nations particularly South Africa. He also mentioned the PAN African parliament as an example which is very bad for the country because it is funded by the country but the people employed there are not South Africans. He said because of the high rate of unemployment in the country the Department can take some of the youth launch into these international institutions so that they are employable internationally. He also mentioned China as a key role player when it comes to attaining credit because the Development Bank of China borrows at a much lower interest rate compared to the World Bank.

Mr M Lekota (COPE) alluded to the proposal of Mr Radebe and said that it is not correct for all times because we have to consider where we are as a country and balance that with the urgency of some of the needs within the country. He made an example about the educational exclusion of black people in the previous regime and said that the priority during this time must be the education and training of the people here in the country because they need to transform the youth of the country into agents of change. He said this must be done so that when they open these opportunities for missions abroad they are open to people who are already skilled and educated. He then asked, “what is more urgent at this time? Is it opening up opportunities for missions abroad or is it educating and training our children now?” He mentioned that South Africa is classified as a developing country and asked if this is the case, how is it that South Africa has more missions abroad even higher than the United States. He added that developed countries such as Britain and Germany are very careful about where they invest on the diplomatic front and that should be the case for South Africa as well. He mentioned that a balance must be kept between investing abroad and advancement within the country.

Mr Radebe responded directly to Mr Lekota because he felt like he was misconstrued by him. He started mentioning various institutions in which the country is involved like WTO, UNESCO and UN. He said concerning these institutions that they are some of the institutions in which the country is investing fees on the institutions. He mentioned that we have South Africans working for elected positions at these institutions but we do not have some working within the administration where the real work and decisions are taken. He said the country needs to have some of its youth graduates working there. He said having the country’s youth working in those institutions is a strategy whereby they can play significant role in the decision making processes of those institutions so that they can attract investors to the country.

The Chairperson said that there are a host of issues which have been raised by the honourable members which are of a political nature and some of the issues come from the presentation. He said he feels that these issues need constant political engagement and discussion between the committee and the ministry. He added that it is not the first time he mentions this because the members must have information on what is happening in the world so that they can report to their constituency areas. He mentioned the issue of “Junk Status” and said it might not be an issue for them seeing that it deals with the Department of Trade and Industry (DTI). But it is very important that they are aware of the implications of the “Junk status”.

He added that there is a need to deepen and heighten consciousness amongst people. He also refer to the issue of the PAN African parliament and mentioned that it is ran by French speaking people which is a disadvantage and unfair for South Africa because they are paying a lot of money for rental. He advised that people who work there must speak at least three languages French, English and Portuguese perhaps Swahili. He said it is frustrating to go there and find that you cannot communicate with the staff because you are English and they speak French. He also spoke about the trade negotiations in the WTO and said that it must answer the questions about trade returns. He asked if the APRM is still alive. He said they are speaking less and less about it, what is happening to it? He asked, “has it been cast aside?” He then went on to make a grammatical correction in the presentation. He asked the funding of general elections African countries, He asked which countries are involved and articulated that they need to fund themselves, they need to fund democracy and suggested that South Africa must instead play a supervisory role. He said the dependency syndrome is not acceptable that a democracy will depend on other countries particularly in Europe or America in order to fund their elections.

Mr Lekota said it is important to talk about how much the European Union contributes in projects in developing countries. He said these countries fund projects where they formerly colonised and they reap a lot of profit from that. He made an example of the UN and said when it comes to the Ivory Coast, only France will intervene or if it is a former British Colony, Britain will intervene through projects. He said that when these countries engage or fund projects in developing countries, they seek their own interests to profit. As a result, the money they invest is only a percentage of the actual profit they actually make. He spoke reiterated the importance of cultivating and investing in South Africans instead of investing in institutions outside the country. He made an example about language and said that it is important that South Africans are trained to speak French and Swahili so that they do not have to go outside the country looking for these people and pay foreigners for language services when they can train a South African to do that same work.

The Chairperson said to the DG that he must choose amongst the issues which were raised particularly those of a technical nature and respond to them.

Mr D Bergman (DA) made a proposal that they must have working (eat – in) lunch because they have questions for over an hour and for the delegation to only have a few minutes to answer might be counterproductive. He said they need to be given enough time to respond.

The Chairperson asked the members what they think about the proposal and member unanimously agreed. He also welcomed the deputy minister into the meeting.

Ambassador Mxolisi Nkosi said the language used in the ARM is taken verbatim from the Act about the official and delegate. He said the time for responses must not be too long. He said this bill enshrines accountability measures which must be taken by the committee and therefore understanding of it must be reflected in the proceedings of the meeting. He also mentioned the SADC and said that it is important to train and equip South Africans to work in these institutions because there is only one South African there and this is not acceptable. He mentioned that their portfolio is not an ordinary one, in fact it is one of the most important portfolios because it deals with South Africa’s position and role amongst the family of other nations. He made an example about 300 million young people which are being supervised and trained for international relations and diplomacy, and stated that it is very important that South Africa trains its youth to occupy these positions. She said it is important that it is very important that they create a culture of creating work opportunities for South Africans outside the country. He made an example about someone from the Province of Limpopo and said when someone from there is looking for work, they come to Gauteng. He said they do not know that there is work in Gaborone or Addis Ababa.

Mr Caiphus Ramashau, CFO, said he will deal with the contentious matter of the confiscation on assets and what it is that they have done. He mentioned that it is an issue about which they have been spending sleepless nights on. He said on the assets there are two matters, the first is the heritage assets which they have not identified the framework of how they will separate their works of art. He said they got a specialist to help them with this and they also travelled to London in December so they have a credible asset register and this skill did not cost them anything, they only paid for the traveling costs. He said part will be touched upon when they conclude the financial audit of the 2016/17 financial year. The second part of about movable assets, he said “based on how we are located, it is difficult not to have an integrated system on managing that because we had a problem that made us not to be able to finalise the mission on our own”. He mentioned that the system failed them and the DG managed to put in place a new working systems. He said the next part deals with integrated financial systems and mentioned that one of the challenges they have as a department is that systems which were done form head office which cater for other departments does not have the capability of foreign currencies so it is them who should be able to develop that. He said that they using a parallel system which is not integrated and they are working with treasury to pilot an integrated financial management system in order to incorporate the operations. He spoke about the infrastructure and said that they have committed to piloting a project in terms of identifying alternative funding models. He said they have received a go ahead from the treasury to continue with this project and that is part of the basics of managing the life cycle of the assets, the acquisition, maintenance and disposal. He said part of the process is asking how they can better manage the assets which they possess in Paris, London and Washington. He spoke about the issue of the surplus and said the surplus is not a bad thing on their side because it does not reflect overspending. 

Mr Kgobo Mahoai, DG, said there is a lot of questions and it is not possible to answer all of them within the time allocated therefore he will choose and speak on the ones which he feels more knowledgeable about. He said amongst the questions, some from Mr Mvelase are very provocative in nature but he does not think they have the time for that and they will be addressed in another platform. He spoke about continental bodies like the SADC and said that Africa only started to have after 1966 and one of them was the Pan African Women’s Organisation (PAWO). He said from 1963 there was a momentum of a lot of organisations developing in African countries. He said many of the countries that became independent between 1960 and 1980, these countries are better represented in these institutions. He made an example with Ghana, Senegal and Zimbabwe. He said Zimbabwe’s contribution is due to the good education system they inherited. He said there is a strong anglo dominance in the institutions, that is; formerly British colonies. He said when one looks at migration, one finds that people who think their country is better off and more stable do not look for opportunities outside because they feel that there are better opportunities within their country due to good infrastructure amongst other things. He said because of this, one finds that it is less attractive for a South African to work in Addis Ababa or Gaborone. When considering the issue of South African staff working for these organisations it is important to also take these factors into consideration. On the issue of missions abroad he said they can only foster what foreign policy dictates. He said the size and number of foreign missions which a country has is a reflection of its power. He said if you look at the power matrics of the current world order, the USA and Russia have more missions abroad with China also increasing its diplomatic ties all over the world. He said it’s a function of power, influence and ambition, and the role in which the country sees itself playing in the world. He said South Africa has adopted the principle of universalism and that is why they get along with everyone. He also mentioned that South Africa is a middle income country and that is why it made its way into G20. He said South Africa is the only African country part of the G20 because of the size its economy. He said these missions are a concrete manifestation of who South Africa is and what their role is in the family of nations. He said this cannot be achieved without establishing an international presence but added that appraisal and re – evaluation needs to take place continually in order to strike a balance between investing abroad and investing within the country. He mentioned that it will take time if he is to finish all the questions because he has to catch his flight. He said GDP size and population size plays a role in the country’s involvement in the global institutions. He said because of the historical facts he mentioned, other African countries have more representatives in these African institutions also because of their link to their colonial masters.

The Chairperson thanked everyone and said it has been a very fruitful and productive engagement.

The meeting was adjourned.