Meeting with the Indonesian Parliamentary Delegation & Ambassador of Iraq

Meeting report

Chairpersons opening remarks
The Chairperson welcomed the Indonesian delegation, and highlighted that the encounter between Indonesia and the Committee was the second one in a space of about one year. The historical relationship between Indonesia and South Africa was briefly outlined and the role that Indonesia played in the liberation of South Africa during the apartheid era was also acknowledged. It was also acknowledged that Indonesia was a regional power in Asia and the third largest trading partner with South Africa. Trade relations between the two countries had grown over the last two years and was now estimated to be worth about R12 billion. Since diplomatic ties were established between the two countries in 1994, 7 agreements had since been signed between the two countries which include the Joint Declaration on a Strategic Partnership.

Meeting with the Indonesia Parliamentary Delegation
Hon Mr Sjahril Sabaruhhin, Ambassador of Indonesia to South Africa, and a representative from the Indonesian Peoples’ Representative Council, stated that trade and investment cooperation between the two countries had significantly increased and so the delegation present was mandated to strengthen the diplomatic and bilateral relations between the two countries. South Africa was therefore seen to be a strategic partner for trade, more especially in the import and export of capital investment which would be mutually beneficial.
Ambassador Sabaruhhin noted that that South Africa was expected to host the 2^nd New Asia-Africa Strategic Partnership Summit in 2013. However, after numerous letters to the South African Parliament, South Africa had still yet to respond and confirm a date for the conference, as the summit had been postponed three times since the first summit in 2010. It was also hoped that South Africa would support Indonesia to have a Speaker at the next African Union summit in Addis Ababa in May 2013.

An Honorary representative from the Indonesian delegation began by adding on to the historical relations between Indonesia and South Africa, stating that it was the Dutch which colonised both countries. The countries therefore had a common history. It was also reiterated that Indonesia was waiting for a reply from the Speaker of Parliament to confirm the date for the New Asia-Africa Summit. It was also noted that Indonesia was working in collaboration with South Africa to build and strengthen the Small and Medium Enterprise (SME) sector, with an agreement signed by the two countries in East London. Indonesia was therefore seen to be the champion in the growth and development of SME’s and was eager to assist South Africa in growing the industry, by sharing its experience and information.

Another honorary delegate from the Indonesian government delegation proposed that trade co operations between the two countries be encouraged and further increased, as there were many opportunities for growth for the two countries. He further proposed that opportunities for cultural exchange be explored and opened for residents of both countries.

Mr Ignatius Mulyono, representative from the Indonesian delegation, agreed that inter-parliamentary cooperation should be increased between these countries, and extended gratitude for South Africa’s support of Indonesia in international forums.

Ms Nurul Arifin, representative from the Indonesian delegation, asked for the support of its candidate as the next Director of the World Trade Organisation (WTO) during the upcoming elections, and also reiterated that Africa had a lot of economic development potential and therefore a proposal was made for the establishment of an Indonesia-African union to help increase trade relations between the two regions.

A representative from the Indonesian delegation reiterated the proposal that bilateral cooperation in trade and investment be increased between the two countries.

Mr Alimin Abdullah, a delegate from the Indonesian Parliament, proposed that the two countries hold a bilateral symposium on Asia-Africa to understand the relations between the two countries for the benefit of future generations.
Hon Ambassador Sabaruhhin stated that the delegation of bilateral cooperation Indonesia-South Africa was extending an invitation from a delegation from the South African Parliament, in the hope that it would increase wealth for both countries.

Discussion
Ms L Jacobus (ANC) requested that the Chairperson facilitate a visit by the Committee to Indonesia. In addition, she suggested that people-to-people exchange and cultural exchange be encouraged, predominantly through the strengthening of the tourism sectors.

Mr B Elof (DA) asked for full reports on the 7 bilateral agreements, as well as an indication of the status of the agreements. He further expressed concern that the Speaker of Parliament had not responded to the letters of communication from the Indonesian Parliament.

The Chairperson agreed that there was a common understanding on both sides about the need to enhance bilateral relations on both fronts, and that international relations and foreign policy must assist South Africa in dealing with domestic challenges such as under development, poverty and issues in the education sector. Tourism was also acknowledged as one of the main drivers of the South African economy and therefore enhanced people-to-people relations, the expansion of import and export relations would also be encouraged between South Africa and Indonesia through the expansion of inter-parliamentary relations and the expansion of cooperation between both countries. The proposed Indonesia-Africa forum was also seen to be a good initiative, but current instruments were seen to be not functioning efficiently, the delayed summit by the South African Parliament was a point of reference. Therefore it was suggested that there be follow ups on the signed agreements so that they work efficiently as Indonesia-South Africa relations were important.

Ambassador Sabaruhhin concluded that the New Africa-Indonesia strategic partnership which was signed in 2008 was not working well, as it did not have a plan of action to move forward. Cultural exchange was seen to be running well, however there was a plea for a speedy reply from the Speaker as to when the next New Africa-Indonesia strategic partnership summit would be held.

Ms Arifin suggested that the South African delegation pay a visit to Indonesia before the country’s next national elections in 2014.

The Ambassador added that with regard to cultural exchange, and the facilitation of Ubuntu between the two countries, the Indonesian Parliament had extended a variety of study programmes for postgraduate South African students to visit Indonesia and to learn from the Indonesian people. Those programmes were facilitated by the Department of International Relations and Cooperation (DIRCO) and varied in duration; some were for 6 months, while others lasted up to two years.
The Chairperson thanked the delegation and welcomed future engagements.
Meeting with the Ambassador of Iraq
The Chairperson stated that His Excellency the Ambassador Dr Hisham Alalawi, had requested to meet with the Committee to raise a few issues.

Dr Alalawi began his presentation by stating that the main purpose of the meeting was to give an update on the situation in Iraq and how it shaped relations between the two countries. With regard to the political situation in Iraq, the country held two general elections and established a new constitution and was now also boasting about its high representation of women in Parliament. Relations at regional level had also improved, with over 100 missions representing Iraq around the world. However, South Africa had still not established a mission in Baghdad, the capital city of Iraq. Iraq also hosted the Arab League Summit in 2012 as well as the second round of negotiations about nuclear power. Iraq had also participated in the Non-Aligned Movement to try and address the crisis in Syria in an attempt to push for a solution to a crisis which had left over 70 000 Syrian refugees in Iraq.

Economically, Iraq was seen to also be doing well, with nearly a 10% increase from the previous year, and a forecasted increase of between 11-12% in 2013. The new democratic Iraq had also devised a new growth strategy for growth and development, focusing primarily on the reduction of poverty. With regard to its trade, Iraq was showing a steady growth in crude oil production. The country was ranked by the Iraq Energy Outlook as the second largest producer amongst Organisation of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) countries. Iraq had also increased its export capacity, by establishing new ports in neighbouring regions such as Jordan. 

Dr Alalawi also spoke briefly on the education and health sectors which were provided freely in the country. There was also a new strategy to improve higher education in the country, by providing opportunities for postgraduate Iraqi students to undertake their studies in the United Kingdom, the United States or Australia, and it was hoped that South Africa would also join as a partner in this initiative. The healthcare budget was also increased over the last year. With regard to the security concern in the country; the 2005/ 2006 security difficulties in the country were seen to have improved, this was signified by the reduced levels of deaths over the years, from an estimated 17 000 deaths in 2006, to an estimated 4000 deaths in 2012. A recent study suggested that crime in different parts of Iraq were significantly lower compared to crime in other parts of the world, however isolated attacks were still a minor concern, since the United Nations security forces left the country in 2011.

The establishment of a South African mission was initially proposed in 2003; however the plans were postponed due to the war in Iraq. The first bilateral agreement signed by the two countries was the 2013 working plan, where the Iraqi federation of chamber of commerce signed three MOUs with the South African chamber of commerce and business community. The aim of the agreement was to increase bilateral trade between the two countries; other initiatives include the South African business fair to be held in Iraq in 2013 to help raise South Africa’s business profile in Iraq.

Dr Alalawi also stated that the Deputy Minister of DIRCO would be visiting Iraq in 2013 to enhance relations between the countries and to open the South African mission in Baghdad. It was also proposed that Iraq would supply South Africa with crude oil, as Iraq’s oil was suitable for South Africa’s refineries. Iraq also has problems with electricity and looked to the South African government to benefit from its green technologies. And with regards to cultural exchange; Iraq also showed interest in partnering up with South African universities and building bilateral cooperation in the higher education sector.

Discussion
Mr I Davidson (DA) wondered about the security and costs of establishing a South African embassy in Iraq, as property in Iraq was expensive. Also with South Africa importing oil, it was wondered whether the Iraqi government had held discussions with South African oil companies in this regard.

Dr Alalawi addressed the question about the establishment of a South African mission in Iraq first. He stated that the key issue had been about the budget and with the visit of Mr Ebrahim Ebrahim; an approach to deal with this issue would be devised. In the meantime, it was proposed that South Africa begin by establishing a small mission which would be extended in the next financial year.

Mr B Elof (DA) asked about the progress of the negotiations between South Africa and Iraq about oil.

Dr Alalawi responded that private South African oil companies were being engaged about the importation of oil from Iraq. A meeting with the Vice-president of PetroSA was a case for reference. Also Deputy Minister Ebrahim would be establishing a team together with the Department of Energy, to engage directly with authorities in Iraq, hopefully in May 2013. So far it was stated that the negotiations looked positive, and the agreements would entail issues pertaining to letters of intent, quantity of oil imports and the length of contracts to name a few.

Ms C Dudley (ACDP) asked about the progress of the political reform in Syria and the role that Iraq played in this regard.

Dr Alalawi responded that Iraq had tried, through the Arab League summit and non-aligned movement, to encourage Syria to have meaningful dialogue to improve its political situation, but so far the political situation in the country was not conducive.

Mr M Booi (ANC) wondered about the affiliations between Palestine and the rest of the Arab nations, and whether or not they were stable, if not how would this affect Iraq’s relations with South Africa.

Dr Alalawi replied that Palestine was entitled to be an independent and viable state, as it accepted it membership to the United Nations, and that its relations with other Arab nations was improving. Relations between South Africa and Iraq had also improved significantly with the establishment of an active Arab council in South Africa, and with Iraq having a number of representations in the country to improve relations and to grow trade and investment.

Ms Dudley asked whether Iraq had considered the effects that the situation in Palestine and Israel would have on its relations with South Africa

Dr Alalawi responded that the environment between the two countries was not yet conducive for meaningful negotiation.

The Chairperson stated that the conflict between Palestine and Israel was not suitable for the current discussion.

Dr Alalawi responded that in past years there was lack of serious negotiations between Palestine and Israel, which had been a serious obstacle in the expansion of new settlements in contested territories

The Chairperson responded that the concerns raised were noted and bilateral agreements between Iraq and South Africa would be strengthened.

The Chairperson thanked the delegation and welcomed future engagements.
Outstanding minutes
The Chairperson tabled several outstanding minutes for consideration. These were dated 24 October 2012, 31 October 2012, 7 November 2012 and 21 November 2012.
Members were satisfied with the content and adopted the documents without any changes.

First Term Committee Programme
The Chairperson stated that most activities on the programme had been dealt with and that the only new issue was the ‘Briefing by the South African Human Rights Commission (SAHRC)’ and the issue on Mali following the responses received from DIRCO on its oversight visit there. The rest had been transferred from the previous years’ programme. Attention was drawn to the fact that the Committee had received a letter came from Adv Lawrence Mushwana, Chairperson of the SAHRC, about the rectification of treaties and outstanding human rights instruments and processes that had not yet been finalised by South Africa. The Commission therefore wanted an opportunity to report back and to brief the Committee on these issues.

Mr Davidson added that there were many other treaties that were to be discussed by the Committee but had since not been discussed.

The Chairperson responded that follow up on the matter would be made.

Ms Jacobus asked about the status of the invitation from DIRCO about the Committee visiting the next BRICS Summit. In addition, she asked how much the Committee had in its budget for expenses such as oversight visits.

Mr Booi wanted the Committee to raise issues on multilateralism and the Committee budget as well. He further enquired whether the Committee could visit Palestine/ Israel

Ms September asked for clarity on the Committee week at the end of the term.

The Chairperson stated that should there be other additions to the programme. A separate application would need to be submitted and that there were time constraints with the visit to Palestine/ Israel. The committee week would be from the 25 March– 4 April 2013, therefore if Members agreed, the Easter weekend would be utilised for the visit. As for the Committee budget; it would be disseminated to the members in the next meeting. As for the BRICS Summit, there would be a follow up, as Parliament usually sent a representative to this event.

The meeting was adjourned.