Eastern, Northern & Western Cape Home Affairs reports with Minister; Gupta citizenship meeting proposal

Meeting report

The Chairperson welcomed Members after the oversight visit to Tele Bridge Border Gate, the Burgersdorp and Aliwal North Home Affairs offices on 2 August 2017. He indicated that the three day oversight visit to the Eastern Cape was to assess service delivery to residents. The purpose of this meeting was to ascertain how DHA was dealing with its upgrade to a service cluster status. In addition, Members would engage with provincial managers from the Northern Cape, Eastern Cape and Western Cape to find out how the managers were dealing with service delivery issues. This would allow the Committee to assist the provincial managers with any challenges they had in performing their duties.

The Chairperson indicated that the Constitutional Court ruling of 29 June 2017 declared sections 34(1)(b) and (d) of the Immigration Act invalid and that the detention of alleged illegal foreigners after 48 hours was inconsistent with the Constitution. The ruling gave Parliament 24 months to issue an amendment to correct the defects in the Act. He observed that the Constitutional Court ruling was causing strain on DHA human resources. Parliament had the job of correcting the Immigration Act but the Minister of Home Affairs would indicate how her office would initiate steps to correct it. The Chairperson welcomed the Minister of Home Affairs, Prof Hlengiwe Mkhize, and her team. The Minister’s team included Deputy Director General of Institutional Planning & Support, Mr Thulani Mavuso, Northern Cape Provincial Manager Mr Abednego Mvula, Eastern Cape PM Mr Gcinile Mabulu, Western Cape PM Mr Yusuf Simons, the Parliamentary Liaison Officer and key officials from the provincial offices. He welcomed Mr Waters the DA’s whip in the National Assembly who was standing in for Mr Hoosen who was late for the meeting. He allowed Members to ask questions before he invited the Minister of Home Affairs to give her address.

Ms H Hlophe (EFF) observed that during the last meeting the Committee had requested that the previous Minister of Home Affairs, now Minister of Finance, and the present Minister of Home Affairs appear before the Committee. Hence, she sought clarity on issues of State Capture and the availability of the Minister of Finance, Mr Malusi Gigaba, for deliberation on the State Capture issue of the naturalisation of the Guptas. She also asked if the Minister would inform Members about progress on the Constitutional Court ruling on the Immigration Act or whether it was an agenda for another meeting.

Mr A Figlan (DA) remarked that the Committee should have received a letter from the House Chairperson of Committees on the state of naturalisation of the Guptas but the Chairperson had not indicated if the letter had been received. During the last meeting, the Chairperson had requested that any evidence relevant to the naturalisation of the Guptas should be made available to the Committee. He reported that he had relevant evidence on the naturalisation of the Guptas that could be used to deliberate on the issue.

The Chairperson remarked that the Committee had an agenda that had already been approved by the House Committee Chairperson; hence each meeting could only deal with the approved agenda. Issues of State Capture such as the naturalisation of the Guptas could only be deliberated on approved meeting dates. He had just mentioned the Constitutional Court ruling on sections 34(1)(b) and (d) of the Immigration Act. Parliament needs to correct the two clauses in the Immigration Act and the Minister of Home Affairs would inform the Committee if the process had been initiated. The DHA had stated that the letter originally presented to the Committee was not a true representation of the copy that was in DHA records. The Committee had requested a confirmation of the status of the evidence before the Committee could deliberate on it. He resolved that the Committee would discuss it when a scheduled follow-up on the meeting on the naturalisation of the Guptas was fixed.

Mr Figlan stated that he had received the confirmed evidence that could be distributed to Members if the Chairperson approved.

The Chairperson stated that the Committee had resolved that Committee would wait until a follow-up meeting on the naturalisation of the Guptas was fixed. If Members began to consider the evidence then it would need to deliberate on the naturalisation of the Guptas and the agenda for the meeting did not include it. He invited Mr Waters to make his comments.

Mr M Waters (DA) remarked that the letter from the House Chairperson of Committees, Mr Cedric Frolick, had made the probe of State Capture matters urgent had been sent to each Committee. The DA had requested that an Ad Hoc Committee be set up to urgently probe State Capture matters. The meeting of the Chairpersons of Committees had agreed that it would give the probe on all State Capture urgency and mobilise resources towards the probe. Hence the Committee had an obligation to urgently discuss the citizenship of the Guptas. He agreed that the Chairperson had said the discussion on the citizenship would be scheduled later but Members needed clarity on it. Due to the complexity of the issue the evidence could be circulated and the Chairperson can initiate the steps necessary to deliberate on it. He stated that Rule 158(2)(i),(ii) and (iii) gave the Chairperson certain powers and he could summon certain persons to give oral presentations on why the Guptas had been given South African citizenship.

The Chairperson stated that Mr Waters was making comments that were his views that could be erroneous and misleading. Mr Figlan has already made statements earlier but Mr Waters statements were trying to put pressure on the Committee and lead to emergency situations. The Committee was charged with the operations of the Committee and planned its meetings based on Members’ availability. Urgency from the House Chairperson of Committees could be interpreted in different ways.

Mr Waters said that he stood by his views and he maintained that the previous Minister of Home Affairs, now Minister of Finance had granted the Guptas citizenship illegally.

The Chairperson stated that the Committee did not need to get into an argument as the Committee had resolved that the citizenship of the Guptas would be discussed in a follow-up meeting. The meeting would be set up by the Committee and communicated later during the meeting, the ‘papers’ that you want to distribute would be distributed and dealt with.

Mr Waters asked if the ‘papers’ could be distributed immediately. He also asked if the meeting date could be decided immediately.

The Chairperson stated that the papers could not be distributed immediately and the meeting date could not be discussed because there were many things that were involved in setting of meeting dates and times.

Ms D Raphuti (ANC) stated that all Members were aware of the meeting agenda and schedules and the Chairperson was not disputing that the Committee needed to engage on the matter. Mr Figlan has said that the evidence was available although the Committee has not seen the evidence. She appealed to Members to stick to the agenda and continue with the business of the day for the sake of progress. The Committee would jointly come up with a scheduled date and would not be pushed to create an emergency over the matter.

The Chairperson agreed with Ms Raphuti.

Mr M Kekana (ANC) made a proposal on the way forward due to the presence of visitors since Mr Waters had referred to State Capture matters as urgent. According to the letter referred to by Mr Waters, the House Chairperson of Committees had stated resources needed to be mobilised on urgent matters and the Committee was obliged to act so that Members would not be perceived as dodging the matter. Hence the Committee should consider the citizenship of the Guptas in the next meeting. In addition, the Committee needed to inform the Minister of Home Affairs of the set date and also request the presence of the former Minister of Home Affairs, Mr M Gigaba, on the said date.

Ms Hlophe remarked that the matter before the Committee was clear. She advised the Chairperson to chair the meeting amicably and not to be a stumbling block to the progress of the Committee. Each Member had been elected to perform its duties based on the Constitution and would speak on behalf of the electorate. During the last meeting, on 20 June 2017, the Committee agreed that based on the letter from the House Chairperson of Committees it would deliberate on the citizenship of Guptas since the two Ministers were not available at the earlier meeting date. She remarked that since all Members were present, setting a date to deliberate on it could not be difficult because the House Chairperson of Committees had instructed the Committee to do so. Members were not disputing that the business of the day had to continue but Members only wanted a date set to deliberate on the matter. She asked the Chairperson not to bully Members because Members had asked him to set a date for the deliberations. She appealed to him to seek the opinion of Members and set a date for the deliberations before continuing with the business of the day.

The Chairperson remarked that during the last meeting the Committee had made it clear that it would have follow-up meetings on the citizenship of the Guptas. The message being sent was that the Committee had an emergency which was misleading and things had to stop. He asked Members to allow the Chairperson and the committee support staff to sort out the operations of the Committee, schedule a date to deliberate on the matter after due consultation and communicate with Members. Members should allow the Provincial Managers to present their reports as the Committee had resolved that the deliberation on the citizenship of the Guptas would not take place today.

Mr Waters indicated that Members were not asking for the meeting today but were appealing for a date to deliberate on the matter. Mr Kekana had proposed that the Committee should discuss the matter on 22 August 2017 and he seconded his proposal.

The Chairperson remarked that there was no proposal to be considered and statements would not be repeated. He had not asked for a proposal.

Mr Waters stated that the Committee needed to consider Mr Kekana’s proposal.

The Chairperson remarked that he was withdrawing Mr Waters statements.

Mr Waters stated that the culture of meetings in Parliament was that members agreed collectively to set dates for meetings. Dates could not be set by a unilateral decision. Hence, he proposed that a meeting should be set to deliberate on the citizenship of the Guptas on 22 August 2017. The Committee should also invite the Minister of Home affairs and subpoena the Minister of Finance to come in to answer questions on why citizenship was granted to the Guptas because he might not want to attend the meeting. He asked for Members that wanted to support his proposal.

The Chairperson remarked that there was no proposal because he had not asked for a proposal.

Ms Hlophe remarked that the impasse could be settled amicably.

The Chairperson stated that Members should understand that the Committee had not convened a meeting on State Capture. He pleaded with Members to deal with the agenda of the day’s meeting and consider the State Capture matter when the Committee had communicated its decision on the date.

Mr Waters stated that the matter was simple. He proposed that the Committee should discuss the matter with respect to the Rules of Parliament.

Mr Kekana stated that the matter was urgent. Certain persons were saying that the ANC had been captured but the ANC was not captured. The Ministers should be subpoenaed if they did not want to attend the meeting.

The Chairperson stated that Members should understand that the Committee had a program for today’s meeting that did not concern state capture. The work slated for the Committee next week cannot be stopped. If a meeting needed to be organised in between meetings, then Members’ availability, the date, time and venue needed to be confirmed. The date of the meeting would be communicated to Members.

Ms Hlophe remarked that the Chairperson was acting as a stumbling block to members and was undermining the instruction of the House Chairperson of Committees to urgently discuss the matter. The Chairperson could not stop the discussion of setting the date for deliberation on State Capture. She appealed to the Chairperson to consider Mr Kekana’s proposal which was also an instruction from the House Chairperson of Committees. She appealed to him not to silence members since Member supported Mr Kekana’s proposal. However, if he did not agree with the set date of 22 August then Members needed to discuss another date to carry out the work of Parliament.

The Chairperson stated that since he did not ask for a proposal, the proposal could not be considered and invited Mr Hoosen to make his comments.

Mr Hoosen remarked that Members respected the Chairperson and would not like to propose a motion of no confidence on him based on his statements. During the 20 June meeting, the Committee had expressed its displeasure that the former Minister of Home Affairs, Mr M Gigaba, had not attended the meeting. All Members had agreed that Mr M Gigaba should be summoned to brief the Committee on his role in granting citizenship to the Guptas. Hence, Members had the right to receive progress reports on the request. He asked the Chairperson to give Members feedback on the request.

The Chairperson stated that he was not disputing the decisions made in the last meeting. He had made it clear that the Committee needed to work on today’s agenda and the meeting of 22 August already had an agenda. However, the Committee needed to set a date when all Members and both Ministers would be available bearing in mind Parliament’s business. Some days might clash due to Members who were part of other committees and the Committee needed to carry out its duty legally. The date for the meeting on State Capture would be communicated and the Committee would report its deliberations to the Chair of House Committees. It was completely out of order if some Members thought they could hijack a meeting that had a specific agenda. All Members who were elected office bearers had been appointed for different functions in Parliament based on mandates. He appealed to some Members not to create an emergency that did not exist.

Mr Waters stated that no one was creating an emergency but the Chairperson was delaying a process. He asked the Chairperson to answer Mr Hoosen’s specific question with respect to decisions taken on 20 June. He also asked the Chairperson to clarify if he had subpoenaed Mr M Gigaba, the former Minister of Home Affairs.

The Chairperson stated that he was not correct.

Mr Waters asked the Chairperson to confirm the date that Mr M Gigaba, the former Minister of Home Affairs, would appear before the Committee.

The Chairperson stated that the Committee would not discuss State Capture issues during the meeting since it was not the agenda. He asked why some Members wanted to usurp the meeting agenda for another agenda.

Mr Waters stated that the Chairperson’s answer implied that he had not confirmed the date that Mr M Gigaba, the former Minister of Home Affairs, would appear before the Committee.

The Chairperson stated that it was not good manners for Members to engage in discussion of State Capture matters when the agenda had to do with taking reports on the performance of Home Affairs from provincial managers. He advised Members to hold on to their questions on State Capture to ensure that the Committee made progress on today’s agenda. Members should respect the provincial managers and allow each of the managers to make presentations so that they can return to their provinces on time. The public have an idea of the Committee’s agenda for today and expect only this result.

Ms Raphuti stated that Members should recall that during the 20 June meeting, Members had agreed that the evidence should be presented to empower the Committee to engage Mr M Gigaba. The minutes of that meeting had not been circulated yet, hence she requested the minutes. As the minutes were not yet circulated, Members could not refer to the resolutions when expressing an opinion. She said that the Chairperson was not refusing to have a meeting to clarify State Capture issues. Members needed to receive the minutes and the evidence before the State Capture issues could be discussed. She appealed to Members to deal with the agenda of the day first.

The Chairperson pleaded with Members to proceed with the agenda of today’s meeting and call for the 20 June minutes at a later time.

Ms Hlophe maintained that Members wanted to discuss State Capture issues.

The Chairperson remarked that he had allowed Ms Hlophe, Mr Kekana and Mr Hoosen to speak on State Capture issues more than three times but he would want the agenda of the day to continue. Hence he invited the Minister of Home Affairs to give her address.

Mr Hoosen interjected and stated that the Chairperson had not answered the question that he asked. All Members want progress to be made on today’s meeting. Time has elapsed after the decision of the Committee to summon Mr M Gigaba to make comments on the issue and it seemed as if the Chairperson is holding up the Committee. In order to make progress, the Chairperson should deal with the proposal to have the meeting to clarify the citizenship of the Guptas on 22 August and summon the former Minister of Home Affairs. The consideration of the time to meet on State Capture next week would take only five minutes.

The Chairperson remarked that Mr Hoosen was trying to hijack the meeting since he had not invited him to make comments and Mr Hoosen had not allowed the Minister of Home Affairs to speak. He remarked that Mr Hoosen arrived late, had missed some of the discussion and was still trying to hijack the meeting.

Ms Hlophe maintained that the Chairperson should allow Members to consider a date to meet on the matter.

Mr Waters indicated that since clarity on the citizenship of the Guptas was urgent then the agenda for the 22 August meeting could be changed.

The Chairperson stated that Mr Waters was tabling his own interest and the Committee could not cancel the agenda for the 22 August meeting because Mr Waters wanted it to be cancelled.

Ms Hlophe proposed that since all Members were present a date for discussing the matter apart from 22 August should be set. Members were available 24 hours based on the decision of the Committee.

The Chairperson stated that Ms Hlophe could not just push her agenda because the availability of other Members needed to be considered.

Mr Hoosen suggested some days in the new week but some Members declined due to engagements with other Committees.

The Chairperson stated that before the meeting could be set each Member had to confirm the days that they would be available. A majority date could then be chosen for the meeting.

Mr Waters asked Members to indicate their availability for 25 August 2017.

Ms Raphuti stated that Mr Waters could not push his agenda onto everyone.

The Chairperson interjected before all Members could agree and stated that the date would be communicated to Members after Members had confirmed availability so as not to delay this meeting.

Ms T Kenye (ANC) pleaded with Members to stop arguing to enable the Northern Cape manager to present because of the distance to Northern Cape.

Mr Waters excused himself from the meeting.

Minister of Home Affairs briefing
Minister Hlengiwe Mkhize thanked the Committee for inviting DHA to brief the Committee on its achievements. She introduced two advisers that would be working with the Committee and highlighted the personal profile of the officers. She indicated that DHA was complying with the Constitutional Court ruling on the Immigration Act because it impacted on the deliverables in DHA. In order to speed up the process, DHA  lawyers were working with the human rights lawyers of asylum seekers and the Department of Justice had made sure that some courts worked overtime. International migration issues are work in progress because it is a new terrain. The feedback report would be presented to the Committee when it was available. She informed the Committee that on 14 August 2017, DHA had hosted the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship from Canada, Mr Ahmed Hassan. The discussion focussed on ways to assist DHA on policies to secure borders and extra measures needed to be taken to protect women and children from trafficking. In addition, DHA participated in panel discussions during the visit of Liberia President Ellen Johnson Sirleaf to South Africa. Also on 31 July 2017, DHA hosted Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Interior and Security of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Emmanuel Ramazani Shadari. During the visit, South Africa signed a visa waiver agreement for senior officials in the DRC to maintain good diplomatic and political relations. All visits reflected on the high level issues of international migration, visa reviews and border security controls and DHA was now better able to handle such issues. She assured the Committee that she was available to the Committee to answer questions on State Capture but asked the Committee to assist with a suitable date. She explained why she had missed the previous meeting and stressed that State Capture issues were vital.

In reply to Ms Hlophe asking if her two advisers were present at the meeting, the Minister said they were not.

Northern Cape Home Affairs briefing
Mr Abednego Mvula, Northern Cape Provincial Manager, noted the provincial footprint included 28 online health offices, 12 mobile offices and 11 points of entry. He indicated targets and performance indicators for 2016/17 and the first quarter of 2017/18 which showed that there were under-achievements in the issuance of Smart ID cards and provision of online health facilities. Northern Cape had expended money on marketing Smart ID cards to make people aware of why it was vital. Modernised offices would be rolled out at Colesburg, Postmasburg and Groblershoop in 2017/18 to assist with issuing Smart ID cards because green books were being discontinued.

He gave a breakdown of birth registration at online health facilities and stated that fewer babies were registered after 30 days because of the intervention performed by DHA. He outlined the statistics on late registration of births for people aged one to seven years, seven to 14 years and 15 years and above that did not have birth certificates. The Northern Cape DHA was concerned because of the clients that applied but disappeared when called for adjudication which led to applications going over 120 days and 180 days. He outlined plans to reach the clients in the second quarter. He identified the challenges of mobile units that targeted rural communities, the strategies to make citizens aware of uncollected Smart ID cards and performance in the resolution of unabridged certificates in 2016/17 and first quarter of 2017/18.

The Immigration Services targets for 2016/17 and the first quarter of 2017/18 were achieved. He remarked that Zimbabweans, Mozambiquans and Malawians were the most directly deported citizens in the Northern Cape. He outlined the number of immigration cases that were withdrawn, why the cases were withdrawn and the role of Home Affairs after the withdrawal of such cases.

He gave statistics on DHA employees that were charged and the status of the cases. He indicated Northern Cape DHA was improving employment opportunities amongst the people as some interns had been employed in some of the available posts. The provincial equity statistics showed staff employment based on race, gender and people living with disabilities. All performance agreements had been signed and finalised by 30 June 2017. He gave statistics on skills development and training programs for staff. The labour and counter corruption cases statistics for the period showed the status and the outcomes of each case. He indicated the status of security in the Northern Cape DHA offices and stated that some of the CCTV in the offices were not functional while some offices did not have a CCTV.

He analysed the budget and expenditure for 2017/18. He stated that asset management was at 99% because some assets had not been verified.

The Chairperson asked for clarity on the statement that some assets had not been verified.

Mr Mvula replied that some assets were not seen during stock taking but it was discovered that the assets were duplicated. The supply chain department would confirm and remove these from the asset register. The revenue collected from point of sale was low because people still preferred to pay for services with cash. He outlined how vehicles had been allocated to the different district municipalities. He highlighted the achievements of the office that addressed the objectives. The challenges of the province were clients’ non-responsiveness to apply for Smart ID cards, working hour arrangements, and the need to modernise three offices at Colesburg, Postmasburg and Groblershoop in 2017/18 to assist with issuing Smart ID cards. He remarked that people working on farms wanted to come to Home Affairs offices on Saturday, but presently the issue of working on Saturdays is being resolved with the labour unions.

Eastern Cape Home Affairs briefing
Mr Gcinile Mabulu, Eastern Cape Provincial Manager, highlighted the background, district composition and the high level management structure of DHA Eastern Cape Province. He noted that the report had some discrepancies which would be rectified in the next presentation. He indicated the impact of Civic Services based on the targets and actual achievement in 2016/17 and first quarter of 2017/18. The province achieved 95% birth registration within 30 days. Underachievement in birth registration within 30 days was due to Saturday working hour arrangements that labour unions did not agree to. He identified the reasons for seasonal performance in the issue of Smart ID cards in each quarter. There were challenges in the four categories of late registration of births and of death registration. However the Province had improved on marriage registration, rectifying of documents and issuance of passports and travel documents as a result of staff training programs. He indicated progress in the four key performance areas of Immigration Services in the Eastern Cape. He outlined the budget expenditure and revenue collection for the period. On asset management, he indicated that the missing assets had been located. He compared the statistics on human resources management in 2013/14 with 2017/18.

The Chairperson asked why the statistics for physically challenged people were not captured in the first quarter of 2017/18 but were reflected in the 2013/14 statistics.

Mr Mabulu admitted that it was a discrepancy and the real statistics would be re-presented to the Committee at a later date. The 11 employees that have performance agreements outstanding have received audit letters to ensure compliance. He gave statistics on the disciplinary cases, training interventions, lease and property arrangements, the counter corruption and security cases in the province.

The Chairperson asked for more information on the corruption cases.

Mr Mabulu replied that the information on the corruption cases would be provided in writing. He concluded by indicating the challenges and planned interventions of the Eastern Cape DHA.

Western Cape Home Affairs briefing
Mr Yusuf Simons, Western Cape Provincial Manager, gave a provincial overview of resources, stakeholder engagements, integrated governance and performance on targets and the strategies developed to achieve the targets. His summary included the facilities available in each district municipality office (DMO) and comments on the state of the facilities. The Minister of Home Affairs had recently opened a modernised Home Affairs office at Bellville. The Western Cape had re-aligned the DMO structure to support service delivery. The burning issue of facilities included the termination of lease agreements at Vredenburg by the municipality and the serving of lease termination at Malmesbury by the landlord. Vredenburg municipality had provided another facility which Western Cape DHA was presently refurbishing while functioning from the back of the building. A negotiated strategy was being followed by the Department of Public Works (DPW) on the lease agreement in Malmesbury.

He gave statistics on the health facilities that had online connection in the Western Cape and stated that the new Bellville office was the first to accommodate provincial archives and indicated the benefits of the provincial archives. He outlined the efforts used to reduce the waiting times at high volume offices and the footprint expansions at Du Noon, Bonteheuwel, Riversdale and De Doorns. He also highlighted the modernisation plans in 2017/18 at Stellenbosch and Grabouw. Statistics of staff breakdown showed 525 of the 550 funded posts had been filled, however, Western Cape had shortage of immigration officers and the posts were not funded.

During the period under review, the Western Cape DHA made progress on equity targets by having 62% female and 38% male representation and also achieved a 2% staff complement for physically challenged persons. He gave the statistics on vetting of staff, employee wellness activities and a list of rewards and recognition accorded to staff. He updated the Committee on the security services, misconduct and counter corruption cases. He listed the total number of vehicles in the fleet and how they were allocated. He analysed the budget and expenditure as at 30 June 2017. Cost saving measures such as reduction of vehicles in the fleet, reduction of travelling expenses by using video conferencing for DMO weekly reports and return of franking machines led to a saving of over R4 million. He informed the Committee that Western Cape DHA had facilitated two immigration operations and participated in several immigration joint operations with various stakeholders in 2016 and 2017. The Constitutional Court ruling on the Immigration Act had put a strain on resources. He mentioned the various outreach programs undertaken in the first quarter at Imizamo Yethu, Langa, Sinenjongo School and Knysna. Although Western Cape DHA was the only provincial office that achieved its targets during 2016/17, it had not achieved its targets in the first quarter of 2017/18. Five targets were achieved but targets on birth registration and Smart ID cards were not achieved. He noted the challenges and interventions on birth registration and Smart ID cards applications.

He remarked that all invoices were paid within 30 days in 2016/17, however, the Province did not meet the target in the first quarter of 2017/18 because eight invoices were not paid within 30 days. He gave the reasons for this and stated strategies to improve performance on payment of invoices within 30 days.

Discussion
Ms N Dambuza (ANC) remarked that the presentations were worthwhile and gave the Committee a lot of information. She observed that Northern Cape had a program that addressed labour cases. She asked them to quantify the loss that accrued from such labour cases. She asked Northern Cape to clarify if it was necessary to modernise all offices in the Province. She asked if it had considered that using private security was a high risk to the operations of DHA. She observed that Eastern Cape had allocated a lot of resources to immigration services. She asked the Eastern Cape to give an update on the challenges observed at Alfred Nzo District Municipality and the border town of Matatiele during the Committee oversight visit. She observed the inconsistencies in the Eastern Cape report and asked why it had not included reports on vetting of staff. She asked the Eastern Cape why female employees were not appointed at senior level.

Ms Kenye asked the Northern Cape to state strategies for registration of births after 180 days and eight weeks. She asked it to update the Committee on the disciplinary cases that were not finalized. She asked for the interventions on the CCTVs that were not functional at Northern Cape offices. She asked Eastern Cape to state measures in place to control porous borders and influx of people from Lesotho. She asked the Eastern Cape to state why vacancies still occurred on funded posts. She asked why finalized corruption cases were not referred to SAPS. She asked the Eastern Cape to state the offices that needed to be prioritised in terms of new immigration assistant directors and new immigration officers.

Mr Kekana referred his questions to the DDG for Institutional Planning & Support. He noted that the reports from Eastern Cape had discrepancies. He suggested that before future meetings the Committee needed to engage with the Auditor-General because some provincial managers were not aware of why some policies were used. He asked why DHA used private security when the President had promised South Africans jobs and the provinces should serve as avenues to employ South Africans. He condemned vacant positions particularly funded vacant posts. He asked why DHA still leased offices when there was proof that leases provided avenues for corruption. There were inconsistencies in the reports because some referred to percentages and the Committee needed figures. He asked about the procedure for filling unfunded vacant positions. He asked how many consultants were used in each of the provinces and why consultants were used. He asked why Northern Cape DHA was only deporting African foreigners while leaving illegal foreigners of other races. He asked if some of the finalised corruption cases involving DHA staff were not being covered up in Northern Cape, Eastern Cape and Western Cape. He stated that vetting of DHA staff must be taken seriously. The provincial managers must re-submit reports on vetting and answer why foreign officers were employed as DHA clerks and not South Africans.

Ms Hlophe asked for a proper presentation on Immigration Services. She asked Northern Cape how it wanted to address the unemployed who were struggling to pay for Smart ID cards. How do you address the pain of residents in Colesburg because Colesburg does not issue Smart ID cards and its residents need to travel 200km to get these cards. How did Northern Cape DHA address allegations of corruption as the Colesburg DHA office did not advertise its posts? The Eastern Cape provincial manager did not report back on any of the concerns raised during the Committee oversight visit hence the Eastern Cape provincial manager might not have resolved any of those challenges. Eastern Cape had not presented any solution to the Lesotho/South Africa border challenges. She asked the provincial manager how he intended to resolve DNA testing as a solution when the people of SA could not afford it. The staff training statistics had only shown people that attended but had not indicated how many people were supposed to attend. She suggested that training of staff should centre on correction of the attitude of staff towards clients. She asked for updates on arrests of staff involved in corruption cases. She asked Western Cape for clarity on the allocation of fleet vehicles and explain what it meant by the return of a franking machine. She was pleased that Western Cape had intervened by assisting with payment of Smart ID cards for people in the province. Other provinces should assist its citizens by paying for the Smart ID cards. She asked Western Cape to give the timeframe on footprint expansions at Du Noon, Bonteheuwel, Riversdale and De Doorns. She asked for feedback on the joint intervention program with Standard Bank. She asked for clarity on the negotiated leasing strategy.

Mr Hoosen noted that the presentations showed that many of the challenges were as a result of recurring problems thus he addressed his comments to the Minister of Home Affairs. He remarked that service delivery quality would be low since provinces had so many vacant positions and inadequate resources. Service delivery quality would be affected if counters did not have staff or computers. Some hospitals still had connectivity issues which would affect birth registrations. This made it unfair in meeting targets because resources were inadequate. However, provincial managers were responsible for the improvement of staff attitude since the large amounts spent on training staff has not led to any dividends. He asked for the correct closing time as early closure by staff was a nationwide challenge that needed to be addressed. Long queues were due to lack of resources. He also noted that phones at provincial DHA offices were not answered when the public wanted to lodge complaints.

Ms Raphuti asked how each municipality office accounted for the collection of Smart ID cards. The withdrawal of corruption cases in Northern Cape DHA due to missing dockets was serious misconduct that had to be reported to the Minister of Police. She said that Eastern Cape DHA needed to be stringent about security if theft cases were recorded in its offices. She asked Eastern Cape DHA to put a time frame on filling vacancies because almost all the positions have acting staff. She asked Western Cape DHA to state the nature of fraud and corruption in its province. Officials should spend eight hours at work hence DHA needed to address work hour challenges.

The Minister of Home Affairs indicated that DHA would address the funded vacancies as it was a non-negotiable. The model offices for rural areas were a priority of DHA and the challenge of inadequate resources was been addressed. The infrastructure at border areas has been given priority and DHA is working with the Department of Defence and the Canadian Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship office to improve security at SA borders. DHA is engaging with the labour union to work out shift hours especially on Saturday. The DHA management is spending time to deal with the basic challenges of addressing staff commitment. DHA is negotiating with the union and the resolutions would be presented to the Committee. Corruption cases include illegal entry at borders and human trafficking and some of this cases occur with the knowledge of South African DHA staff but the issues are been addressed.

Mr Thulani Mavuso, DDG Institutional Planning & Support, replied that DHA wanted to create a vibrant organisation that operated as a business but it has been frustrated by lack of infrastructure. DHA needs permanent infrastructure but this depends on funds. Presently, the business models submitted to National Treasury have not come out fruitful. The recommendations include verifying business registrations online at a cost and increase in fees charged for services so as to generate more revenue. Private security is used in some DHA offices. The office manager makes a call on when to stop clients from coming into the office because he cannot authorise overtime. The funding model needs to be modified because Treasury allocations have not improved.

The Chairperson invited the provincial managers to answer questions but stated that reports in writing should be submitted on some questions to give better information.

Mr Abednego Mvula, Northern Cape Provincial Manager, replied that some posts were not advertised in Colesburg because some staff had requested transfers. The process was above board and the union was aware of this. Black Africans from Zimbabwe, Mozambique and Lesotho were deported due to illegal entry. Other races were usually expatriates who follow legal modes of entry. When disasters occur, a DHA office can apply for waivers on Smart ID card fees as had been done in Western Cape. Presently, the Northern Cape DHA arranges transportation with taxi drivers on behalf of clients. The Colesburg office is on the priority list of offices to modernise. Missing dockets in courts are being addressed. Corruption cases on illegal documents can be evaluated for losses but not all cases can be evaluated for losses. The DHA has appointed proxies to deal with late birth registration especially those above 180 days.

Mr Gcinile Mabulu, Eastern Cape Provincial Manager, replied he had not reported on concerns expressed during the oversight visit because these were work in progress and progress reports would be submitted to the Committee at a later date. The vacant positions and staff equity are due mainly to resignations and the situation is been addressed. The Eastern Cape DHA offices lack resources in the form of officials and vehicles and as pointed out by the Minister these are being addressed. SAPS is incorporated into all finalised cases unfortunately, culprits resign when they see that the cases are going to be criminalised. The Eastern Cape DHA is committed to address paternity and is working with the head office on this. The Eastern Cape DHA is looking at the possibility of getting local doctors in the area to assist with the paternity tests. Presently the Eastern Cape DHA is having priority committee meetings with SANDF on why borders are porous.

The Chairperson excused the Minister of Home Affairs.

Mr Yusuf Simons, Western Cape Provincial Manager, stated that the negotiated strategy was a process used by Department of Public Works when procuring leases in emergency situations. This process involves inviting landlords instead of going through a tender process. He explained the nature of employee disciplinary cases identified in the report. Some of the Western Cape vehicles were managed by Standard Bank. He explained how vehicles in the fleet were allocated. The franking machines were used to stamp mail. However, as emails were sent to clients the franking machines were returned to reduce stamp duty charges. A DHA staff official has been appointed at Standard Bank. The Western Cape DHA did not have any corruption cases for SAPS in the first quarter but reports on cases could be sent to the Committee. The three corruption cases involved refugees soliciting bribes at a detention facility and the two fraud cases were internal. Operating hours were from 7.30 am to 4.00pm however office managers must attend to clients that were still remaining. Managers needed to make a decision on the way forward at a certain time. He agreed that DHA officials needed to communicate better but remarked that some clients were abusive.

The Chairperson asked Ms Dambuza to act on his behalf because he needed to attend another meeting.

The acting Chairperson asked why some DHA offices in Eastern Cape such as the Nelson Mandela Bay, Buffalo City and Joe Gcabi did not have a manager. She asked the provincial managers to state their relationships with municipalities that could ensure that businesses owned by foreigners were registered. The provincial managers were asked to address DHA facilities manned by foreign security officials.

Ms Hlophe stated that the provincial managers needed to make a presentation on Immigration Services to ensure that SA would not be seen as victimising other Africans.

Mr Hoosen asked for the decision on the meeting to address State Capture.

The acting Chairperson mandated the provincial managers to send responses in writing on questions that needed more information. She stated that the decision on the meeting to address State Capture would be communicated to Members after due consultation as the Chairperson had earlier stated.

The meeting was adjourned.