Committee Reports on Quarter 4 performance, GCIS & KwaZulu-Natal oversight visits

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Communications and Digital Technologies

20 June 2017
Chairperson: Mr H Maxegwana (ANC)
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Meeting Summary

Documents hande out:
Committee Reports on DOC Quarter 4 performance
GCIS & KwaZulu-Natal oversight visits [Committee Reports available Tabled Committee Reports once published]

Members of the opposition were not pleased that the Committee meeting began an hour later than scheduled while ANC Members met privately with the Department beforehand - this was unacceptable especially as the Committee chose to move forward, as well as carry out its duties, as a team - this required full transparency. The Chairperson reinforced the spirit of working together as a team and asked that the Committee not move away from that goal.

The Draft Report of the Portfolio Committee on Communications on the 2016/17 Fourth Quarter Expenditure and Performance Report of the Department of Communications was not considered as Members felt it was not reflective of the engagement between the Department and the Committee. Member also did not yet receive the Fourth Quarter performance report of the Department – the Committee would have to see the report before it could be written into the Committee Report. The Report would be reworked and then returned to the Committee.

Consideration of the Draft Report of the Portfolio Committee on Communications on its Oversight Visit to Government Communication and Information System (GCIS), Department of Communications, as well as its Reporting Entities, dated 20 June 2017, came to a halt when Members quickly realised the Report was incomplete. Although the Committee had visited staff from all entities and noted all genuine concerns which arose, the Report did not contain information about responses to concerns highlighted by staff members of the entities during the oversight visit.  The Committee highlighted it was aware the Department was underfunded and would continue to assist with these funding challenges. Members were not pleased with the work of the Committee Secretariat on the Draft Report. The Report would be reworked and then returned to the Committee.

The Committee then thoroughly discussed its Draft Third Term Programme where it was proposed the Committee look into the “Data Must Fall” campaign. The Committee also agreed to look into possibly travelling to other countries to study different funding models that could be applied to the SA Broadcasting Corporation. The Committee would also be considering quite a few legislative instruments in the Third Term and would be very busy short listing candidates to fill vacancies in the boards of entities.

The Committee would be conducting an oversight visit to KwaZulu-Natal from 20 - 29 June 2017. Adoption of Committee minutes was deferred to a later date. 

Meeting report

Apologies

The Chairperson apologised for the altered time of the meeting as well as the amended agenda.

Apologies were noted from the Minister of Communications, Ms Ayanda Dlodlo, Deputy Minister, Ms Thandi Mahambehlala, Mr A Shaik Emam (NFP) and Ms L Van der Merwe (IFP).

Ms P Van Damme (DA) was not pleased the meeting began an hour later than scheduled and to learn that ANC Members met with the Department of Communications (DOC) during this time along with a change in the agenda of the meeting. She found this problematic – the Committee needed to operate as a team.

The Chairperson noted the Committee received an email yesterday, at 16h00, indicating the change of time and agenda of the meeting.  

Ms N Tolashe (ANC) added that, because the meeting began an hour later, the ANC decided to meet amongst itself along with officials of the Ministry – she did not think there was anything wrong with this as all political parties had a right to invite whomever they pleased. The only problem would be if Ms Van Damme did not receive communiqué about the meeting beginning later. She called for the meeting to proceed.

Mr R Tseli (ANC) agreed with Ms Tolashe – all Members received communication that the meeting would begin later.

The Chairperson assured Members of the spirit of the Committee in working together – the Committee need not move away from this spirit.

Draft Report of the Portfolio Committee on Communications on the 2016/17 Fourth Quarter Expenditure and Performance Report of the Department of Communications

The Content Advisor for the Committee took Members through the Draft Report. He highlighted only 68% of the Department’s fourth quarter targets, as stated in the performance overview of the Report, were met. Turning to observations of the Draft Report, the Committee noted the Department failed to provide the fourth quarter report even though the Committee previously highlighted this as a concern. 3.6% of the Department’s employees identified as disabled – the Committee noted and commended this. The Committee also identified the R41 million allocated to the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa (ICASA), for its mandate, was returned to the Department and allocated to another programme – this was a matter of concern for the Committee. The Committee was also unimpressed with the format of the presentation of the Department as it made it difficult for the Committee to properly conduct its oversight function. The Committee recommended the Minister ensure the Fourth Quarter report be made available. It was also concluded the Department and the Committee would need to meet to discuss appropriate language and format to be used in the Department’s quarterly reports. The Department was also asked to provide a status report on community radio stations.

Mr M Gungubele (ANC) highlighted the conversation had about Government Communication and Information Systems (GCIS) and the Department - he felt the Department had no clear institutional strategy for oversight of the entities. He suggested the Committee recommend the Department present a plan to ensure that each unit served its purpose effectively. It was not clear how the entities were kept accountable for the targets set by the Department. There was a series of initiatives mentioned in Programme Two, such as the White Paper on Audiovisual and Digital Content, which had caused a delay in signing the ICASA Amendment Bill. Programme Two also highlighted legislation around the Media Development and Diversity Agency (MDDA) - he felt it important to include and involve the Committee in the process. The Committee had to demonstrate it wanted to coordinate with initiatives. The Department should also be requested to present the overall policy progressive process plan. He then asked which industry would be developed in Programme Three. Critical issues would have to be added to the Report moving forward.

Ms Van Damme agreed with Mr Gungubele that details would have to be added to the Report however, based on some errors she identified on certain pages of the Report, she thought the Report should not be adopted. There was an observation noting the Department failed to submit the full Fourth Quarter report to the Committee - she felt the Committee Report could not be based on a slide show presentation by the Department and the Committee could not perform oversight using a slide show presentation. She highlighted that, in contrast, the SA Broadcasting Corporation (SABC) had given the Committee a slide show presentation, a summary of the slide show as well as a full report. The Report of the Committee would only be complete once the Department submitted its full Fourth Quarter report – she could only support the Committee Report once this was done.

Mr Tseli said the Committee Report had to be a true reflection of what took place during the meeting with the Department. He did not agree with the motion that the Report not be adopted – the Report already noted that the report from the Department was not received. He asked for clarity on what was meant by “partially achieved” targets – according to him, a target was either achieved or not achieved. He emphasised the Committee needed to discuss the observation of the R41 million that was returned to the Department from ICASA - a resolution regarding these funds would be necessary and the Department would have to clarify what happened with this case. He asked if it was possible to also have an idea of what the shareholder agreement was as well as the SABC accountability contribution because the Committee would not be able to conduct its oversight without all the information regarding each entity.

The Chairperson said the Committee Report definitely needed to be improved as it did not include the points made by Members. The Department would need to, at a later stage, respond to some of the questions asked by Members.

Ms Tolashe felt the Committee Report did not fully include discussions conducted during the meeting. Additional facts also needed to be added to the Report. She found the Report to be weak as it failed to include issues raised by Members. She asked why the Department did not indicate whether new Directors would be appointed. It was important for the Report of the Committee to reflect what was raised in the Department’s presentation and discussion from the meeting between the Department and Committee. The Committee also needed to receive agreements between shareholders and all other entities. Format from National Treasury should be used when the Department presented its finances because the Committee did not understand some of the figures provided by DOC.

Mr M Ndlozi (EFF) found there to be inconsistencies with the Report of the Committee. He asked how the Report could include detailed diagrams from the Department if the Department did not present its Fourth Quarter Report to the Committee – he could not rely on a Report which used information not yet submitted to the Committee. This was not to say the Report would not be adopted. He wondered if the Cabinet reshuffle affected performance of the Department. He felt the Report needed to be reviewed. He was also interested in initiating an amendment to the ICASA Act to make the body a fully Chapter Nine institution – this would strengthen the work of the entity as well as help with general oversight.

The Chairperson asked the Content Advisor to look into some of the suggestions of the Members. The Department would need to elaborate on the R41 million.

The Content Advisor said the feedback from Members would be taken in consideration and the necessary amendments would be made to the Report. He further admitted to having recently received the Fourth Quarter report from the Department however, at the time the meeting of the Committee took place, the report was not submitted so the Committee Report was based on proceedings of the meeting. The Fourth Quarter report, and presentation, of the Department would be made available to Members soon. Reference to partially achieved targets was directly reflective of what the Committee presented although it was previously discussed that Members did not agree with reporting on partially achieved targets – it might be best to seek clarity from the Department on this. The Committee had raised numerous issues such as those relating to the shareholder compact – he proposed the Committee put together a timeframe for the Department to respond to the issues raised. The Committee also suggested that when the Minister was present at Committee meetings, resolutions from the previous meeting would be highlighted so the Minister was aware of them. The Standing Committee on Appropriation had submitted a report which would also be circulated amongst Members – in the report there were notes pertaining to the Fourth Quarter. These points could however not be added to the Report of the Committee because it was not yet formally presented to the Committee. Some of the points related to financial sustainability of the SABC.

The Chairperson said it was clear that the Fourth Quarter report of the Department would have to be forwarded to Members and the current Committee Report would need to be written with more detail.

Mr Tseli asked whether the use of partially achieved targets was endorsed by National Treasury.

The Content Advisor reminded Mr Tseli the office of the Chairperson was not able to provide reasons why the Department insisted on using the category of partially achieved targets even when the Committee discouraged its use.

Mr Gungubele felt it was time to have a session with National Treasury to discuss the format and language used in presentations of the Department so that it may be common and regulated across all entities. This would improve the Committee’s ability to perform proper oversight.

An official from the Department of Communications mentioned the quarterly reports of the Department were sent to National Treasury and the Department of Performance Monitoring and Evaluation (DPME) where department’s were allowed to report on targets which were partially achieved. The Department was however aware of the previous resolution of the Committee to remove partially achieved targets. It was however unfortunate that the current report included targets indicated as partially achieved. The Department apologised therefore.

Mr Ndlozi said partially achieved targets would be rejected and considered as not achieved. He also felt the Report of the Committee was poorly written – it was best that the Report was rewritten and submitted to the Committee again at a later stage.  

Ms M Matshoba (ANC) emphasised the Report was a reflection of the Committee. Instead of accepting or rejecting the Report at this stage, it was best the Report was improved as work continued. 

Mr Ndlozi said the Report had to be reflective of the Committee’s discussion based on Fourth Quarter performance of the Department.  As he was not pleased with the Report, he offered to draft the report himself.

Mr Gungubele agreed with Mr Ndlozi but however advised against Mr Ndlozi’s suggestion to redraft the Report as he felt it was too much work for the Member to take on. He also felt it important to look into amending the ICASA Bill to ensure the body was properly independent.

The Chairperson encouraged that the Draft Report be redeveloped and then returned to the Committee.

Draft Report of the Portfolio Committee on Communications on its Oversight Visit to Government Communication and Information System (GCIS), Department of Communications, as well as its Reporting Entities, dated 20 June 2017

The Chairperson and Mr M Ndlozi felt it best that the Committee consider the Draft Report together as a team.  

The Secretary of the Committee took Members through the Report page by page.

Mr Gungubele had reservations about discussing the Report because he would have rather preferred the time to go the Report on his own and then decide whether the Committee could possibly align itself with the contents of the Report. Nevertheless, he asked for clarity about the staff complaints relayed to the Committee on its oversight visit to Gauteng – what did the staff mean by not being remunerated properly?

The Secretary said the Committee visited staff from all the entities, namely, SABC, MDDA, Film and Publications Board (FPB), GCIS, ICASA, and Brand South Africa (BSA), and noted all genuine concerns which arose. The Committee highlighted that it was aware the Department was underfunded and it would continue to assist the Department with funding challenges.

The Chairperson noted the concerns raised by staff were not in the Committee Report - he felt the Committee would not be able to properly discuss the Report without looking at issues and resolutions related to staff concerns.

Mr Tseli felt all draft Reports of the Committee due for consideration today needed to be set aside until all the information and documents required for the Reports were readily available.

Ms Tolashe asked why the response to the concerns raised by the staff, or perhaps a summary of the concerns as well as responses, were not made available. She was not happy with the incomplete Report - the Secretary and Content Advisor knew about the meeting and so should have been better prepared. She asked why they were not able do to the work as it was a part of the responsibility handed to them – this was unacceptable because it was not the first time the Committee raised the issue.

Mr Gungubele felt the Report needed to go back to the Chairperson to save time – the Committee could again consider the Report once it was complete and contained all the important information required.

The Secretary said the issues raised by the staff members in the oversight visit were in the Report but the responses were not. This was because the responses from the SABC alone were an extra 15 pages long – this excluded responses from other entities. Inclusion of these responses would make the Report of the Committee close to 100 pages long. As the responses were not summarised they were left out of the Report of the Committee.

Ms Tolashe felt the Secretary was making excuses - he had no jurisdiction to make the decision to omit information. She demanded the Secretary apologise to the Committee as his behaviour was unacceptable.

The Chairperson asked the Secretary to apologise to the Committee.

The Secretary apologised and said the information would be ready for the following meeting of the Committee.

Draft Third Term Committee Programme

The Chairperson took Members through the Draft Programme. He highlighted the Committee would utilise Tuesdays and Fridays as meeting days. The first Committee meeting of the third term would take place on Tuesday, 1 August 2017. Final deliberations on the FPB Bill would take place on 4 August 2017. The first round of short listing candidates for the Interim Boards of the MDDA and ICASA would take place on 8 August 2017.

Ms Van Damme asked if the Committee could get the FPB Bill well in advance, or even perhaps a day before the meeting, in order to consult with lawyers and have an understanding of what the Bill entailed.

The Chairperson thought this was a good idea and affirmed the Bill could be circulated in advance.

Ms Matshoba asked whether the Committee would be doing the short listing of each candidate as there was a separate selection Committee for that.

The Chairperson responded there were discrepancies regarding the Sub-Committee taking care of the selection process and so the Committee agreed to fully take part in the application and interview process of the candidates recommended by the Sub-Committee.

Ms Van Damme noted that in terms of the SABC Inquiry, a Report had to be compiled of all the people who had misled the Inquiry. This Report was currently before the Speaker but it needed to be considered by the Committee – she suggested an item be added on 1 August 2017 for the Report to be tabled before the Committee and discussed.

Mr Gungubele did not think the SABC Inquiry was relevant to discuss and asked that the Committee focus on more pressing issues.

Mr Ndlozi felt that dealing with the application process of two large entities on the same day could be a large task for the Committee – it might be best that short listing for each entity be conducted on separate days otherwise the Committee might not to a thorough job.

The Chairperson indicated the term for the SABC Interim Board ended in September 2017 whereas, for ICASA and MDDA, the term of the boards ended in June so the matter was more pressing for the latter two entities.

Mr Tseli said most of the work would have been done by the secretaries and so profiles of the shortlisted candidates would have already been put together.

Mr Ndlozi wondered whether the secretaries could be trusted with the job as they did a horrible job with the Reports considered by the Committee this morning.

The Chairperson asked Mr Ndlozi to calm down.

Mr Tseli felt that it was possible to do short listing for both entities on the same day.  

Mr Ndlozi still emphasised the need for the Committee to work thoroughly.

Ms Matshoba asked who was responsible for short listing candidates.

The Chairperson reminded her the entire Committee took responsibility to conduct the selection process of the boards.

Ms Van Damme felt that with the history the SABC Board had, it would be advisable to conduct the selection process with a lot more scrutiny, thus allowing an entire day for the SABC selection process. The interviews should run similarly to those of the Public Protector because of the importance of the position held by the SABC Board members. All four days of interviews would be broadcast live.

Mr Gungubele felt a live interview process would be disadvantageous to the candidate interviewed first as candidates would generally be asked similar questions. This would allow for the candidates interviewed on the fourth day to be better prepared.

The Chairperson felt 15 August 2017 was important - that would be the final day for short listing SABC Board candidates.

Mr Ndlozi asked if the purpose of the short listing process would be to fill vacant positions or to select an entire new Board.

The Chairperson said the purpose was to fill vacant positions.

Mr Ndlozi said it would then best to extend the time of the meeting of 11 August 2017 until 17h00 – the team would have to push through until the job was complete.

The Chairperson mentioned a total of 22 interviews would most likely take place on the same day so the Committee was likely to meet from 09h00 until 20h00.

Mr Ndlozi still felt it would be best to conduct interviews for the ICASA Board on the Tuesday and then move the interviews for the MDDA to the Friday. While reviews could be done in one day, the interviews required scrutiny and thorough selection. He advised against conducting interviews for two different entities on the same day.

Ms Van Damme agreed with the suggestion of Mr Ndlozi.

Mr Tseli supported the suggestion as well.

The Chairperson highlighted that on 6 September 2017, the Committee would meet to discuss issues related to the Department of Trade and Industry.

Ms Van Damme proposed the Committee also look into the “Data Must Fall” campaign and discuss the issue and see where government could get involved or perhaps address the challenges.                                             

Mr Ndlozi said Ms Van Damme had brought an excellent proposal for discussion. The Committee would probably have to invite the Department of Trade and Industry in for this discussion. The true vision of communications and telecommunications was based on local production of industry.

The Chairperson said he would have to contact the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry. He did not see a problem with the proposal of Ms Van Damme. On Friday 8 September 2017 the Department would brief the Committee on its performance for the First Quarter of 2017/18. From 11 to 15 September 2017, another joint oversight visit would take place. 

Ms Tolashe asked if the Department could address how far it was with filling vacant posts. She felt the Minister should be made aware of the agenda items of the Committee as well beforehand.

Ms Van Damme felt the Broadcasting Amendment Bill had to be discussed on 8 September 2017 - the Committee needed a bit more certainty on the matter.

Mr Ndlozi felt there was no need to discuss the Amendment Bill because former Minister, Faith Muthambi, was no longer in charge of the Department of Communications.

The Chairperson said the Amendment Bill would be added to discussion to take place on 8 September.

The Committee agreed to look into possibly travelling to other countries to study different funding models that could be applied to the SABC. A report on possible places to explore, with similar media structures as in SA, would be discussed in the following meeting of the Committee.

Portfolio Committee on Communications Oversight visit to KwaZulu-Natal 26-30 June 2017

The Content Advisor said there were five objectives for the oversight visit to KZN:

  • assess the progress made by community media in the realisation of the rights as contained the Constitution
  • test the issuing of ICASA and community broadcasting licensing as well as to monitor compliance with licence conditions and other challenges
  • assess challenges faced by community media
  • familiarise new Members of the Communications with the mandate of the Department of Communications especially challenges faced by community media
  • assess challenges experienced by the Department’s entities relative to those faced by community media.

The Committee also put together themes to guide Members during the oversight visit including:

  • assess content presented by various community media in the KZN province
  • assess whether the content reaction was aligned with the Constitution
  • investigate extent to which the different community media was available and accessible to the community
  • assess the growth of Government Community Media
  • investigating sustainability of community media and ensuring community media was ready to take on opportunities presented by the Department of Trade and Industry
  • analyse challenges faced by community media such as broadcasting signal interference, financial constraints etc.

The Committee felt that because community media was a platform to encourage freedom of expression, it was important this form of media received government support as well as encouraged to continue with the work being done. It was important to ensure the communities remained engaged and informed.

Mr Ndlozi suggested the Committee also conduct an oversight visit to private radio stations. The Committee needed to be visible as it was not just responsible for government entities but also to ensure all media outlets were held accountable.

The Chairperson said there was no objection to Mr Ndlozi’s suggestion.

Mr Gungubele also felt private broadcasting stations had a constitutional obligation.

The Chairperson said the final meeting of the Committee for the second term would take place on 29 June 2017.

Mr Ndlozi asked to be added to the list of Members going on the KZN oversight visit.

Mr Tseli would not be accompanying the Committee on the KZN oversight visit.

The Draft Third Term Programme of the Committee was adopted with amendments.

The Committee agreed to defer adoption of Committee minutes of 2, 3, 9 and 10 May 2017 until its next meeting.

The meeting was adjourned.  

 

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