(Subcommittee) ICASA Councillors: interviews

Meeting report

For each candidate, the Chairperson explained the interview process and the Committee Members introduced themselves. The responses of each candidate are available on the audio. At the end of the interview the Chairperson explained the way forward and thanked the candidate.

Candidate 1: Ms Thembeka Semane
The Chairperson asked the candidate to introduce herself to the Committee.

Ms P Faku (ANC) asked the candidate about transformation as the sector was not yet transformed. How would members of the community benefit from the auctioning of the spectrum, especially since the candidate mentioned that she was from a rural area. She asked what had brought about the policy and how would it help in ensuring the sector is transformed? What are the key objectives emanating from the policy? To what extent has the regulator implemented the policy? How will our people benefit from this process?

Mr Z Mbhele (DA) said ICASA is somewhat different from other entities for which the Committee has conducted interviews. In part it has a constitutional mandate in Section 192 which was formed by the merger of a number of regulators including the Independent Broadcasting Authority. The promotion of diversifying broadcasting, telecommunications and related sectors must be held in tandem with ensuring the delivery of the mandate which is multifaceted. He has received complaints from operators about delays in licensing and slow feedback from ICASA. These challenges have reached a point where even the publicized telephone numbers for ICASA are not being answered. This speaks to ICASA’s capacity and resourcing in that it does not have the power, the people and in-house capacity to fulfill its mandate in a practical sense. How should the internal capacity challenges at ICASA be addressed? How would the candidate contribute to this project or mission to ensure ICASA has the confidence of the sector and the public to fulfill this mandate as well as ensure transformation.

Ms Z Majozi (IFP) asked how the candidate would ensure that when the release of spectrum is finalized, small players are a part of the spectrum division.

The Chairperson said there has been different views on how to bring those who were previously disadvantaged on board. What would the candidate say are the advantages of going this particular route and what are the limitations? How can ICASA realign but also help society at the same time such as, for example, to cut data costs? How can ICASA move around the obstacle of participation of people. In terms of technological advances and the traditional areas which are regulated, where technology undermines it and revenues expected, what does the candidate think ICASA can do to remedy this?

Candidate 2: Adv Dimakatso Qocha
The Chairperson asked the candidate to introduce herself to the Committee.

Ms Faku thanked the candidate for her work at ICASA. She asked how ICASA’s independence influences the delivery of its mandate? Is the current policy regulator adaptive to the innovative evolution of technologies? What is the proposed merger of regulators in South Africa? How must South Africa ensure there is a digital technology regulatory framework?

Mr V Pambo (EFF) said he was covered by the candidate.

Mr T Gumbu (ANC) asked the candidate how the high demand spectrum will help in the transformation of the sector. If appointed, what areas of speciality will the candidate bring in terms of the ICASA Act?

Mr Mbhele asked about the capacity and resourcing of ICASA which has been raised by the ICASA chairperson at every Portfolio Committee meeting. Linked to this is the internal capacity of the Authority in its administrative implementation of licence application approvals. He had received a complaint via WhatsApp ten minutes before. There are complaints from operators about delays, slow feedback and non-responses. He asked the candidate about her insights and possible innovations she would like to bring to the Authority to have the basic means and resources and how this would be translated into a more efficient and effective administrative response to operators.

Ms Majozi said the candidate spoke of championing many challenges within the industry and the possibility of finding a councillor that is committed to fairness, freedom of expression and openness and accountability. In the candidate's championing of consumers, what are the cases received by ICASA and how has she ensured mitigation and solved cases presented by consumers?

The Chairperson asked for clarity on how limitations could be better addressed. He asked about the Consumer Protection Act and the market enquiry on data services by the Competition Commission versus ICASA's market review. What is ICASA doing to ensure that this is realized?

Candidate 3: Ms Nompucuko Nontombana
The Chairperson asked the candidate to introduce herself to the Committee.

Mr Gumbu asked the candidate how her experience in her previous employment would assist the regulatory environment? What is the candidate's experience in the ICT sector?

Mr Pambo said the candidate had the least experience compared to the candidates interviewed before her and asked what she had picked up about ICASA that she would like to change. What has her want this position and what is different about her that she plans to bring to ICASA.

Mr Mbhele asked about the candidate's work experience at the Competition Commission. One of the challenges in the sector is that it is oligopolistic in nature by having a handful of large players which makes for a consumer market with low competition. In this case, there are high barriers to entry and cartel-like behavior – if not cartel behavior – and, as partly applies to the telecoms sector, there are facts around how economies of scale are unavoidable. This causes there to be a minimum requirement for scope and size to be able to deliver affordable services and products. What are the lessons and insights the candidate would bring to ICASA’s operation to fulfill its mandate as it relates to telecoms and broadcast operators due to the sector's oligopolistic nature and the need for affordability to customers to be optimized. He pointed out that there are five big cell phone providers and a similar number in television broadcasting.

Ms Majozi said the qualities desired in a candidate are fairness, freedom of expression, openness and accountability. One of the policy objectives for high demand spectrum licensing is to promote the interests of consumers in the quality and variety of electronic communication. What expertise would the candidate bring to ensure consumers are satisfied with pricing and content production? How would the candidate mitigate complaints that are coming in?

Ms Faku said the candidate had been in the sector for quite some time and wanted to address transformation. In terms of the policy direction on high demand spectrum and licensing, she asked about the key objective emanating from this policy. If given the opportunity to become an ICASA councillor, what would the candidate do to ensure transformation in the sector? What is the intention of the policy on high demand spectrum?

The Chairperson asked about competition and bringing in the previously disadvantaged – what was the candidate's take on ICASA being able fulfill this task in transforming the sector? In the candidate's own assessment of the current provisions, is there still room to bring in previously disadvantaged groups in time.

Candidate 4: Ms Dikeledi Mushi
The Chairperson asked the candidate to introduce herself to the Committee.

Mr Gumbu asked about the candidate's knowledge of ICT. How does the independence of ICASA influence the delivery of its mandate?

Mr Pambo said he was covered by the candidate's previous responses.

Mr Mbhele said there was always suspicion when a former lobbyist is now operating in the law-making space. He asked for the candidate's perspectives and insights which would motivate her candidacy and the value she would bring to the Council to allay some of the fears that she may have the interests of the corporate operators in mind.

Ms Majozi said that it is expected that an ICASA councillor is committed to fairness, freedom of expression and accountability. How would the candidate mitigate and solve consumer protection complaints presented by consumers?

Ms Faku said the was a date for the release and auction of the spectrum which could not happen due to litigation. What are the main reasons for the litigation and how could it have been avoided from ICASA’s side. Looking at the policy direction, does the candidate think the policy direction was leading somewhere or did she think there were issues that needed to be amended within the policy moving forward?

The Chairperson asked how a balance could be created by the regulator to ensure public interest is protected as it relates to spectrum whilst one does not want a situation where regulatory function is led by the industry.

The Chairperson asked the candidate to make brief closing points.

Afternoon session

Candidate 5: Mr Edmund Baloyi
The Chairperson asked the candidate to introduce himself to the Committee.

Ms Majozi said that ICASA acts as the watchdog of the telecommunications and broadcasting industries. The Authority’s mandate is to receive complaints from the public. How would the candidate mitigate complaints lodged and what expertise would the candidate bring to ensure he solves the complaints, satisfies the consumer, but also sticks to the ICASA mandate.

Mr Mbhele said the candidate's experience and scope within the sector was impressive. Since the candidate was involved in policy and legislation drafting, institutional setting up in the telecoms and ICT sector over a number of years, he asked for the candidate's SWOT analysis on how to address the challenges and bottlenecks around the release of spectrum and similar issues and mitigate future challenges.

Ms Majozi said ICASA acts as a watchdog of telecommunications and broadcasting industries. The Authority’s mandate is to receive complaints from the public. How would the candidate mitigate the complaints lodged and what expertise would he bring to solve the concerns and satisfy the consumer, but also stick to the ICASA mandate?

The Chairperson asked for the candidate's understanding of 'moving with speed' as there had been a delay just three weeks prior to auctioning of spectrum. He asked what the candidate would associate this delay and the quality of what has been put forward as the reason for the programme in place? How does the candidate see himself contributing to meeting consumers' needs and ensuring that they are protected according to the legal framework that exists?

Ms Faku asked if the candidate thought that ICASA functioned without fear or favour and what are the reasons for this? Does ICASA act in a way that is consistent with the manner of the republic? Does the candidate think that ICASA promoted the development of SMME’s and what are the reasons for this? If given the opportunity, what would the candidate do differently?

Candidate 6: Mr Dimitri Martinis
The Chairperson asked the candidate to introduce himself to the Committee.

Mr Gumbu asked the candidate what areas of speciality he would bring to the Council. How would the high demand spectrum help in the transformation of the sector?

Mr Mbhele asked what the candidate would bring to the space to mitigate challenges and optimize benefits and value. He asked for an analysis of the Authority's strengths and weaknesses as well as opportunities and threats. For example, one threat in the telecoms sector that has not really entered the public discourse is load shedding possibly becoming intensified and more chronic. He asked for the candidate's perspective on this.

The Chairperson referred to what the candidate said about the SABC and how it relates to ICASA and the independence given to ICASA by Section 192 of the Constitution. How does this influence ICASA’s delivery role?

Ms Faku said the policy paper differs from the White Paper on high demand spectrum. What is the candidate’s view on this and the fact that a single entity might not control the spectrum? The candidate said he was part of the SABC team on transformation. The sector does not particularly involve women, youth and persons with disabilities. If given the opportunity, what would the candidate do differently?

Candidate 7: Mr Muso Sello
The Chairperson asked the candidate to introduce himself to the Committee.

Mr Gumbu asked how the ICASA influenced the delivery of its mandate or service. What is the candidate's experience in the ICT sector. How would high demand spectrum licensing help in the transformation of the sector?

Mr Mbhele liked what the candidate said in his introductory remarks on the need for scientific, data-led evidence based approach for both the regulator and operators. He asked how knowledge, expertise and experience on the operational side can be bridged into the regulator space for telecommunications.

Ms Majozi said ICASA acts as a watchdog of the telecommunications and broadcasting industries. The authority’s mandate is to receive complaints from the public. How would the candidate mitigate these complaints and what expertise would the candidate bring to ensure he solves these, satisfies the consumer, but also sticks to the mandate of ICASA.

The Chairperson asked for clarity on the spectrum and if ICASA has been able to do everything according to the dictates of legislation in addressing the high demand spectrum auction. Three weeks before the March 2021 auction, there was litigation. What is the candidate's understanding of this and what technical aspects should have been looked at in relation to spectrum? Given where ICASA is at versus what could have been done by the Competition Commission, what could ICASA have done differently?

Ms Faku asked how the candidate would ensure that ICASA promotes an environment of open, fair and non-discriminatory access to digital communication. What is the candidate's understanding of procurement capacity as prescribed in subsection (b)(4) of the policy?

Candidate 8: Mr Ashraf Patel
The Chairperson asked the candidate to introduce himself to the Committee.

Mr Gumbu asked how the candidate's experience and qualifications would contribute to ICASA. If appointed, what areas of speciality would the candidate bring to the Council?

Mr Mbhele said the candidate had a strong civil society advocacy and research background. He asked if there had been any wins, milestones or achievements in the candidate's advocacy work and in his consultation for drafting policies? How does the candidate think his experience would be valuable to ICASA?

Ms Faku asked about the challenges faced by ICASA and what it could do to improve. Spectrum should have been auctioned a long time ago, but was delayed due to litigation. What could be done better to avoid litigation in future? What expertise would the candidate bring to ICASA? She asked him to further expand on this as Mr Mbhele already asked this.

The Chairperson followed up by asking about solutions to avoid litigation that would inspire confidence in South Africans. What is the candidate's view on what could be done to address limitations at ICASA?

Candidate 9: Dr Natalie Skeepers
The Chairperson asked the candidate to introduce herself to the Committee.

Mr Mbhele asked about ICASA’s manifold mandates and the promotion of universal access. He asked about the promotion of competition within telecoms and broadcasting such as benefits to the consumer and lower data prices. How can fairness, responsiveness and efficiency be ensured in these ICASA mandates?

The Chairperson referred to consolidation and convergence and asked the candidate's take on the merger of regulators. Does the candidate think ICASA can be an instrument to allow for transformation within previously disadvantaged groups? If there are any limitations, how could this be addressed?

Candidate 10: Mr Charles Mabuza
The Chairperson asked the candidate to introduce himself to the Committee.

Mr Mbhele asked the candidate why he wanted to move from the departmental space to the regulator space as there was no doubt about his knowledge of the ICT sector. He asked about the candidate's work experience and how he could enhance stakeholder collaboration and engagement to mitigate the risk of conflict and to prevent delays and litigation.

The Chairperson asked about the ICT sector interventions and if this could be taken to the next level. He asked if there were any limitations in the interventions? What can be done to help ICASA to address competition speedily?

Candidate 11: Mr Thabo Makhakhe
The Chairperson asked the candidate to introduce himself to the Committee.

Mr Mbhele asked what the candidate's analysis was of how the landscape at ICASA has shifted over time. How would the candidate’s experience, knowledge and expertise contribute to ICASA?

The Chairperson asked about transformation and saturation of mobile networks given the challenges of connectivity and access to cell phones. What can be done to ensure transformation and include previously disadvantaged groups.

[Note: Parliament's livestream video failed to capture the last three interviews:
Candidate 12: Dr Olwethu Siphuka
Candidate 13: Ms Rossana Gell
Candidate 14: Ms Sesethu Gqomo
PMG is attempting to obtain an audio]

The Chairperson made brief closing remarks and the meeting was adjourned.