Implementation of Committee recommendations following oversight visits to the Northern Cape and Free State; with Deputy Minister

Meeting report

Opening remarks by the Chairperson

The Chairperson welcomed and greeted the Members of the Executive Council (MEC) for Education from the Free State, Northern Cape, and the Western Cape, Heads of Department (HODs), officials from the provinces and Members of the Portfolio Committee. She said that she was having loadshedding on her side. She was not sure if the Director-General (D) was back.

Ms Simone Geyer, Deputy Director-General: Delivery and Support, Department of Education (DBE) said the DG is back from leave. She made apologies on behalf of the DG as he was travelling in the Eastern Cape and was unable to connect to join the virtual meeting. She said she would lead the delegation on his behalf.

The Chairperson thanked Ms Geyer. She asked if Ms Geyer would be assuming the position of Acting DG.

Ms Geyer said she was not the Acting DG. She was only standing in for the DG for the meeting.

Mr Llewellyn Brown, Committee Secretary, did roll call. Apologies were made on behalf of Ms M Sukers (ACDP), who had to leave early, Ms R Mashabela (EFF), Dr S Thembekwayo (EFF), and the Minister of Basic Education, Ms Angie Motshekga, who was abroad.

Deputy Minister of Basic Education, Dr Reginah Mhaule, expressed her apologies as she could only stay for the first part of the meeting.     

The Chairperson thanked the Deputy Minister. She said the meeting was a follow-up on a previous meeting. The meeting agenda was adopted.

Deputy Minister Comments

Deputy Minister Mhaule expressed apologies for the misunderstanding with the Free State last week. She also expressed apologies for the Western Cape report that was submitted late. She expressed appreciation for the good work of the Committee. She said she could only be present for the first part of the meeting.

Ms Geyer said presentations would be heard from three provinces – the Northern Cape, the Free State and the Western Cape. The presentations would cover issues that were raised during the Committee oversight visits to these provinces.

Western Cape presentation – late submission

Mr Alan Meyer, Chief Director: Districts, Western Cape Education Department, expressed apologies on behalf of the MEC, who was recovering from COVID and could not attend the meeting. He also said the HOD was in interviews and could not attend either. He said he would lead the panel from the Western Cape side.

The Chairperson said the Committee received the Western Cape presentation late. The situation with the Western Cape is the same as the Free State last week. She asked Members to deliberate on the matter. She said the Departments are well aware that presentations should not be sent this late.

Mr P Moroatshehla (ANC) said that the Portfolio Committee must be consistent. Last week they experienced a similar situation with the Free State. Given the fact that the Committee researchers were not able to read through all the responses and the recommendations of the report, they requested the Free State be postponed to another day – he requested the Western Cape also be postponed.  

Mr S Ngcobo (IFP) said the submission of the WC report was very late indeed. He said that is not on. He agreed and supported that the WC present to the Committee at another time.

Mr E Siwela (ANC) said he supported the postponement.

Ms D Van Der Walt (DA) said that whatever the Committee decided in terms of fairness, she wanted to note that the WC MEC was off sick due to COVID. She is not sure of the procedures in each province, but she knows that several MECs looked at the presentations before they are forwarded to the Committee or the Department. It is important that this was taken into consideration. It was not due to neglect but it was due to unforeseen circumstances. She agreed that it was problematic for the Committee but wanted to note the reason for documents sent late. She said it was not impossible for the Members to work through the presentation but the researchers must be taken into consideration.

The Chairperson said the Western Cape would have to present at a later date. The Committee will confirm a suitable time.

Free State briefing

Mr Tate Makgoe, Free State MEC for Education, greeted all present.  

Mr M Sithole, DDG: Corporate Services, Free State Education Department, presented the report to Members. The presentation detailed progress made on Committee recommendations made during its oversight visit to particular schools.

(Please see presentation for further details)

Northern Cape briefing

Mr Zolile Monakali, Northern Cape MEC for Education, greeted all present.

Ms Moira Marais, HOD for the Northern Cape Department of Education, presented the report to Members. The presentation detailed the province’s response to Committee reports on schools in the ZF Mgzawu and Frances Baard districts.

(Please see presentation for further details)

Discussion

Mr S Ngcobo (IFP) said that he will be brave and general to encapsulate what he found to be noteworthy in the presentations. He said that among all the issues identified in the presentations, the issue of safety is very important - we are going through a rough patch in South Africa where people have run amok. There is vandalism, a lot of it. There is violence, in particular the issue of Gender-Based Violence (GBV) and violence against children. It is commendable that many of safety issues have been rectified at the schools that were visited. Although some things are still in progress, it would be good if the provinces would assist us and be representative to understand the true picture of what is happening in schools. The lives of teachers and the lives of learners are in danger. The protection of school property and structures are also important. Capacitation of the school governing bodies (SGBs) is also an issue of concern. Through experience, the Department does not do justice when it comes to capacitating the SGBs – sometimes the school is then blamed for failure and responsibility is not taken. He requested an appeal to the Deputy Minister and to the MECs for proper representivity of the schools. This would help the Committee to contribute from a more informed point of view.

Ms D Van Der Walt (DA) asked the NC if the visually impaired learners ever use the latest technology in IT world. ‘What precisely are they using’? ‘At how many schools are they doing so’? She knows it is very expensive, but we cannot always keep our special needs teachers and learners behind.

In response to the Free State Report, she said it was a surprisingly short presentation if one took the number of schools and the number of issues that were found. She asked what the progress on the undertaking by the infrastructure manager or director for the girls’ hostel at the Lettie Fouche Special School that was not in use for a very long time. A promise was made that the adjudication would be done and that it would be resolved before the end of the previous financial year. ‘What happened to this undertaking’? ‘What is the report back on this matter’? If it has not been done, when will it be done’? It is unacceptable that children with special needs are neglected.

Mr P Moroatshehla (ANC) said that the presentations were very loud and clear. The issue of safety in schools remains a very important issue and challenge. With reference to the Free State, an incident where the learner differed with a science teacher and the teacher was beaten up in the schoolyard. It is one thing to secure our school with electric and security fences, it is another issue altogether to ensure the safety of teachers and learners during the school day. ‘What progress had the Department made on the issue of safety in our schools? What have they done to address this issue’?

The second issue concerned the importance of maths and science subjects. He said the Free State, the Northern Cape and Gauteng, tend to discourage learners from enrolling in these important subjects. It is close to our hearts that our schools enrol learners in maths and science. The Free State and Northern Cape must move with speed to make it a point to encourage learners to take maths and science and learn other technological subjects. This needs to be made a priority so that SA will no longer need to outsource foreign nationals to develop our own country.

Mr E Siwela (ANC) welcomed the presentations. He noted the progress made to address oversight issues raised. He asked what the DDG’s response was to so few learners taking maths and science in the Free State. ‘What is the cause of this’?

In response to Northern Cape, in particular, Uitsig Primary School – ‘is it going to be rationalised or not, given the fact that it is on privately owned land’?  ‘What is the exact position of the Education Department in that province on this’? ‘Is there any feedback on the advertised position that was supposed to be finalised on 26 May 2022’?

The Chairperson thanked all Members for their questions and both provinces for their input toward the recommendations made by the Committee and the progress completed to date. ‘How long does it take for a Department to procure the mobile classrooms? ‘Does it cover the skills that are needed? Is the Department satisfied with what this will cover in terms of what is required for mobile classrooms’? 

In response to Northern Cape and the land which does not belong to the Department, but is being used by the Department - when will payment be made to the landowners for use of the land for mobile classrooms? ‘What is the view of the landowners about payment and using their land for this purpose’? 

In response to special schools – she said it is no longer a luxury to build special schools, it is a need. There is also a need to speak with Treasury for funds to be made available for the construction of special schools in provinces. The Transport Policy must be reviewed to cater for learners with special needs coming from different provinces.

Many of the responses are also vague and do not respond to all the recommendations. The Committee needs to get a sense of what is being prioritised. She hopes for more detailed responses the next time the Committee meets for a follow-up meeting next year in April. It is important to note that the recommendations are to assist the Department to move forward. The recommendations are in the interest of the needs of the learner and the environment should be made conducive to optimal learning.

Mr Moroatshehla said, in response to special schools in the Northern Cape, asbestos is a health hazard. He asked what the timeline was to address the asbestos roofing and procurement for special schools.

Free State Education Department response

MEC Makgoe confirmed to the Committee that issues raised and recommended are taken very seriously. He said that everyone supported transformation of education in the country. He said if there are any delays or failures anywhere, it is not intended. The issue of asbestos materials has been a huge problem in their provinces. There has been a programme in place called the Accelerated Schools Infrastructure Delivery Initiative (ASIDI). The aim of the programme is to reconstruct or eliminate schools built with dangerous materials, such as asbestos. There have been some challenges in the ASIDI programme and in efforts to restore and build new schools. This was not to justify delays in progress. But he wanted to reassure the Committee that they are sensitive to these issues, and they are being prioritised.

Mr Tsoarelo Malakoane, Free State HOD, said he went with the Chief Director for Infrastructure to Lettie Fouche School - it was on a Saturday. He counted 16 individual structures that were completely gutted and had to be re-established. He thanked the Committee for their input and assured Members that their concerns were taken into account. They completed a full report about what is happening at Lettie Fouche School. They estimate that the job will be more than eight months old. They have asked for the construction program to be as least disruptive as possible.

At Bainsvlei, they have identified mobiles from other districts that would have been established by the end of June 2022. They had a tender that was running, and that tender is currently been considered by the evaluation committee. They had to change the scope and were advised by the Auditor-General that they must not continue allocating people before the end of their tender. At Bainsvlei and Hodisa, they took the mobiles that were not in full use. With Bainsvlei, the Department has a lot to lose. At Bainsvlei, they had the flagship project, and they cannot lose the value of the hostel project. It has put the province in good stead and has been lauded as the best programme within the sector.

In response to some questions about external stakeholders, he said that the Child Learners with Severe to Profound Intellectual Disability (LSPID) Programme, fortunately, attracts the best resource expats. Some being psychologists and social workers. Every programme that is brought into the ecosystem, including Bloemcare as a private hospital, has been vetted by the resource expats. This is to make sure that it is fit for purpose and that it is congruent with enhancing the skillset of LSPID learners. It is important to understand the diverse needs of the challenging learning landscape. One cannot treat learners as homogenous. One needs to prepare special needs learners for the economic market.

In response to the learner and parent who entered the school premises and assaulted the teacher, he said this was a dreadful situation. What is worse is that the parent is a lawyer by profession and men of his calibre are supposed to know better. The Department ensured that the police acted swiftly. This parent was incarcerated for a period of three days. The state granted bail. It was ensured that this case was tracked. It was fortunate that the parent community together with professionals in that space helped to ensure that adequate psycho-social support to all learners and teachers who witnessed the event was provided. This was an outlier. It was never anticipated. It is becoming a problem because of deviance in communities that have manifested in schools. The community has a new social compact with unions. There was another challenge - a learner ran home and after school brought a knife and killed another fellow learner. These are learners in grades five and six. This shows how difficult the learning landscape has become. Physical security was implemented at this school.

It was ensured that justice was done to the Lettie Fouche School. The girls’ hostels also need to receive better support.

In response to the issue of mathematics, the recorded enrolment is incorrect, and they are quite aware of this report. One must spare a thought for what took place in 2020/2021. It was difficult to teach and difficult to learn during this time. The Department will ensure that every learner in the Free State is given the opportunity to do maths and science.  

MEC Makgoe said, in response to school safety, they have introduced and built up quite a few programmes to drive and deal with issues of school safety. Officials at provincial and district level work closely with the SA Police Service. They had also been trying their best to involve the community and parents themselves and had been strongly engaging with parents to appropriately discipline their children. Incidents of violence and misconduct are unacceptable. It indicates that children are not learning respect from their home environment. They had told parents that schools are not places to dump their children. Parents need to support and discipline their children in the home. Parents and the committee structures have been very supportive on this. It is an ongoing battle. They have informed the police in Bainsvlei to monitor school hostels for any dangerous drugs and weapons - this plays a great role in leading to school violence.

In response to mathematics enrolment, he said he hoped his response was not out of order but it was very irresponsible to tell learners not to study maths. It shows that people do not have sufficient understanding of the history of this country. With the history of Bantu education in SA, racist white people said that black people should not study mathematics and science. The impact of that was that our teachers were not sufficiently capacitated to teach these subjects. This led to most provinces importing teachers from Zimbabwe and other countries. The MEC said he was very fond of mathematics. When he became the MEC for Education, the Department analysed all the failure subjects and realised maths and science were contributing to the high failure rate in the Free State at that time. Engineering Mathematics Science and Technology (EMSTA) was established – a programme encouraging learners to choose English, mathematics, natural sciences, technology and accounting. A programme was run to support learners as much as possible. The Education Department went out of its way to recruit teachers in universities – those studying BSc Mathematics. They were recruited to the Department to complete a PGCE and become qualified teachers. If one looked at the results, the pass rate in mathematics has improved. The same goes for learner enrolment in the subject. This is a small province. The province has a matric class of over 30 000 per annum. Last year, 13 000 learners were doing mathematics. When the programme started, the number of learners doing maths was only 6 000 and the pass rates were in the 40s – today the pass rate is in the 70s.

By the time learners leave grade seven, they already hate maths because they are not doing well in it. A programme was started called Maths for All Campaign. This involved unions, doctors, engineers, pilots, the air force, and all professions that require mathematics. These professionals were sent to speak to primary school children, especially grade six and seven learners about the importance of doing mathematics as a school subject and where it could lead them in the future. This programme was rolled out some time back in 2013/2014. He said they went to India to try to understand some of the programmes that they roll out. India is very advanced in this field. Similar programmes were established back home in SA. The Department is very proud that learners from the Free State are achieving 100% in mathematics and physical science. An interview was had at the beginning of the year with SAFM radio about this. The Department is very excited about this progress.

The Department was also running partnerships. One is called the OR Tambo Mathematics and Science Institute where the Department is contributing 50% to the programme and Investec the other 50%. There is a similar programme with Harmony who is contributing 50% and the Free State ED, the other 50%. The Department was going out of its way to train teachers in mathematics on weekends. The level of mathematics brought into the curriculum now is higher than the level of maths under apartheid. It must be ensured that teachers are on par. The Department also decided to integrate maths paper three into the mathematics curriculum for everyone. The National Department of Education monitors the Department’s participation in maths. One had to appoint quality subject advisors to support learners. In some provinces, the subject advisors train learners themselves, going well beyond the call of duty. If one discouraged learners from choosing maths and science, one is telling them that they cannot be doctors, engineers, chartered accountants etcetera - this is what it means. The Department is also setting up schools that specialise in specific areas, for instance in agriculture or mathematics and so on. The Department also provides learners with study materials that it provides itself and that extend beyond the required textbook materials.

Northern Cape Education Department response

Ms Marais (HOD) said the Northern Cape MEC was having connectivity issues. She would comment on behalf of the MEC Northern Cape.

Ms Marais said the MEC Free State adequately addressed issues of maths participation. He has articulated the way the NC Department felt on this matter.

In response to the issue of safety in schools, she said it is an urgent concern. She agrees with Members who mentioned that as much as the Department is trying to secure school buildings with safety fences, there are bigger threats to safety inside of schools. The Department is facing similar challenges of learner discipline and several other horrible incidents that take place daily. As a province, they are looking at alternative discipline mechanisms. SGBs are encouraged to be a lot more stringent about learner discipline and the provisions that the law provides. One often finds that when learners begin misbehaving, the issue is not nipped in the bud. The Department is discussing what systems could be implemented to highlight and address this. As part of the initiative to capacitate SGBs, late in 2021, 6 938 SGB members across the province were trained on learner misconduct and how this should be addressed in the system, in a manner that is corrective and preventative, to protect educators and learners.

In response to transport for learners with special needs, she said the Department is currently in the process of profiling learners who need transportation to see where they can be included in the overall transport mechanisms and transport policy they are implanting as a Department.

In response to Ms Van Der Walt, she said the Department has been able to modernise some of its equipment for visually impaired learners at Itumeleng Primary School. They have a Braille section; there is also a machine that can translate any article into Braille. Each learner has access to his or her own Braille machine. There are currently maths materials available in Braille. The Department is trying to deal with these challenges using technology. The Department has also procured the latest technology to assist hearing impaired learners to help them participate better in their learning activities. She confirmed Ms Van Der Walt’s concern about the cost of technological equipment, machines and devices estimated at around R40 000.

In response to Mr Siwela about Uitsig Primary School, she said she could not yet provide an inclusive answer to whether the land will be rationalised. The Department is now in the process of consulting. The Department is compiling the necessary information supported by the DBE, so that on a case-by-case investigation, they would recommend consulting with the communities and other stakeholders. There is a prescribed process. This would result in the final decision to merge or not to merge. There has also been a gazette promulgated. There are challenges in some of the smaller areas where community members might resist the closing of a smaller school for whatever valid reason. The Department will have to look at all these factors before a final decision can be made.

In response to the proposed timeline period for procuring mobile classrooms, she said the Department is trying to procure directly from the companies that make the equipment. From time to time, provinces compete for orders. Last year, an order was placed in December and so did a number of other provinces. In some cases, in the wake of disaster, for instance, the crisis in KwaZulu-Natal, eclipsed other needs. Company providers need to deal with the needs of the crisis first. There are unexpected delays that we need to concede. She agrees with the Chairperson that in some cases like Uitsig, there is a need for additional infrastructure. The issue is now with the landowner who has not been able to provide information to Treasury on the basis on which payment can be received. This is due to issues of ownership – the Department is helping to mitigate that.  They were advised it is better to provide a different bank account number. Ownership cannot be changed in a short period of time. A different bank account will work quicker.

In response to appointment of advisors, she said that they have limited capacity in terms of HR to ensure that the processes are all above board. In some districts, they are in the process of interviewing and in others, they are only at the stage of shortlisting candidates. The Department envisages a period of a month to assess any blockages in the process.

In response to constructing special needs schools, the Department has approached Treasury and these discussions are still in their infancy. The President indicated in the State of the Nation Address, that they will be working with infrastructure SA (ISA) to pilot the fast-tracking of social infrastructure – specifically school infrastructure. The Eastern Cape, as the biggest province, and the Northern Cape, as the smallest province, were targeted. It is estimated that it would take about 40 years to eradicate our infrastructure backlog - it is important to accelerate this process and to fast-track the development of critical public infrastructure in the country. These discussions are taking place with Treasury and Infrastructure SA (ISA). Last week, the Department had a meeting and today will have another meeting. The Department was asked to propose what projects could be immediately kick-started if it had the funding. The Department will contribute infrastructure funds towards this initiative and for additional sources of funding to be secured. Should the Department secure the funding, it has targeted two schools in the Northern Cape as part of the priority list.

Closing remarks

Mr Hubert Mweli, Director-General, DBE, said he has no additional comments. The DBE concur with the presentations shared with the Committee. He also confirmed that the DBE is working together with provinces as one sector. He thanked all Members for the meeting.

The Chairperson thanked the DG for his comments. She thanked the Free State and the Northern Cape for their oversight reports and for coming to account for the recommendations. She said the Committee will inform the Western Cape when to present as the last province for the January oversight for this year.

Adoption of minutes

The Committee adopted and considered minutes from a previous meeting on 24 May 2022.

The meeting was adjourned.