Hon Chair, I certainly do think that the question of demilitarisation should be an issue that is seen far beyond the question of ranks. The point of emphasis here is the approach that we have to adopt as a police service, for instance, in relation to executing our work as the police and not necessarily in terms of ranks.
The example that I can give you is that you can demilitarise or strip away ranks as much as you can, but if you have not worked on my state of mind, I will still be militaristic in my approach. The second example is that you have, for instance, the Salvation Army, which is a religious formation or denomination of sorts whereby reverends are called captains and everything else and so on. [Laughter.] But it does not take ... [Laughter.] [Interjections.]